Down the Bow Rabbit Hole

[CrackbottomLouis]

So I was able to pick up that bow I discussed in the other thread. My first ever bow a kodiak hunter 50# @ 28". Found my draw length is 27.25.

Friend came over to help me tune and he is maybe not as squared away as I believed. He "knows" how to tune his bow but hasn't done it. He has the test kit, bow square and the different weight field tips.

He is going to cut his test kit arrows to 29 inch. So that got me watching youtube vids about arrow length, spine weight, tip weight etc. Will that work for me too?

Holy crap, what have I gotten myself into?! I feel like i have been trying to soak up knowledge for the past week and I'm getting nowhere. I need someone that can dumb this down for me to get my bow and arrows good enough to actually learn on. All the bow shops around me are strictly compound.

Without starting a cutthroat debate, carbon or aluminum? Will broadhead be tuned if I tune with field tips? What is a good weight for a hunting broadhead? Should I tune my bow around the broadhead I want to hunt with? And how do I do all this without breaking the bank?

I have to cry uncle and ask for some advice because I just get the feeling im gonna spend a bunch of money doing it completely wrong and then have to turn around and spend even more doing it right. Story of every hobby I've picked up but I'd really like to get this right because all bs aside I'm having a ton of fun with it. Hitting pie plate at 20 yards with the arrows I've got so I'm encouraged.

My arrows have 4 fletching not 3. Seems weird to me. Always though they had 3 and one was a different color. Will I need to tune my bow differently for those flu flu arrow things if I want to squirrel hunt? So many questions I don't even know where to start.

 

[tyson12590]

Traditional archery is a journey not a one and done type thing. Slow down, enjoy the journey and accept the fact that you will likely not settle on what you start with.

A general rules of thumb is to stay at least 10 grains per pound. You are pulling around 48 pounds so shoot for a total arrow weight with a minimum of 480 grains. Depending on how much weight you put up front you will likely be shooting either a 500 or 600 spined arrow. Lancaster sells individual arrows and arrow shafts. The Gold Tip warrior is a good inexpensive carbon arrow that would be good to start with. I would recommend buying some 500 spine warriors and some 100 grain brass inserts. Leave the arrow full length to start, then try some different field point weights and shoot a bareshaft. Once you find the weight that flys the best, then look into some broadheads in that weight. If the field point weight that flys the best is lighter than you want, then you can have your arrows cut down a bit and then increase the tip weight until it is flying good again.

Every little change will affect your tune but your fletching's will correct minor changes. You have plenty of time to get tuned in before next season. In my experience, if you can get a bareshaft flying well, your broadheads will fly good too, at least at close ranges.

I hope this helps in some way. I felt very overwhelmed as well when I started shooting trad. Just take it one step at a time and don't get frustrated when things don't work perfect immediately. With little tweaks you will get an arrow flying good and build your confidence. Lastly, it is important to remember that tuning can be very difficult if you have inconsistent form. Once you have an arrow flying decent, spend your energy on getting a very consistent shot cycle. Once you have done that, you can tweak your arrow tune with much less frustration.

Welcome to the Trad world. It is addicting!

 

[Vtbow]

His test kit wI'll be in the zone
Assuming he draws 28, and is cutying 1 inch over for bh clearance.

Take a breath. Forget foc and gpp. Order some easton xx75 1916 and put some 125g field points on them and go shoot. After you've put a couple thousand shots through it reevaluate.

 

[neonomad]

EDIT: DANG IT I THOUGHT THIS WAS COMPOUNDS, my apologies, please ignore! Heart was in the right place...

Yeah this is too much ground to cover... couple thoughts. I have a 30” draw and I think my arrows are right around 29”... so those will work for you and if anything will be long. Your broadheads have a higher chance of being in tune if your field points are flying straight, but how do you know your field points are flying straight? I’ll walk through some basics, but this is a deep topic. First, somehow do what you can to verify that your bow is shooting with the cams in synch. A bow shop can help with this, or you can make a draw board at home which is actually very easy, It’s a board from Home Depot, a winch from Amazon, and some bolts. Either (1) you get lucky and the bow is in tune or (2) you need a shop to help or (3) you need a draw board and a bow press at home. Let me tell you, a cheap drawboard is very handy. I attached a pic of my home setup. Then set your nock point and your rest. This is a while bit of research in itself. Once you have that shoot through paper to a target, arrows both WITH and WITHOUT fletchings on them. If you are pretty close, nock low tears mean drop your rest a little at a time, and nock right tears mean move your rest left a little at a time. If you’re still off, your bow is probably not setup correctly or you have a lot of torque in the way you grip the bow. Let’s assume things are working. Me personally, I am always shooting a few arrows in my groups without fletchings, because these are the only arrows that are being honest with you. I also have a piece of cardboard with a big hole in it, which I put paper over the hole and set in front of a target, and shoot bareshafts through at various ranges... for me bareshafts flying straight at 10-15 yards is good enough. If bareshafts are flying reasonably straight, fletched shafts should fly very well, and you have a better chance that broadheads are going to fly good. In summary [1] slowly piece together how to get your bow setup, one way or the other (and do look up arrow spine tables to make sure your arrows are spined right, Is go carbon), [2] look up how to hold a bow and work on doing this correctly, don’t be afraid to put a bunch of arrows into the target [3] once your grip is decent / neutral shoot fletched and bareshafts through paper at varying ranges max 10-15 yards to learn what the system is doing by inspecting your paper tears, [4] once you have some confidence here start shooting at longer ranges, and eventually trying broadheads, there are probably the most options in 100 grain weight. Good luck, it’s a never ending process.

 

[CrackbottomLouis]

His test kit wI'll be in the zone
Assuming he draws 28, and is cutying 1 inch over for bh clearance.

Take a breath. Forget foc and gpp. Order some easton xx75 1916 and put some 125g field points on them and go shoot. After you've put a couple thousand shots through it reevaluate.

This kind of what I was thinking.

 

[CrackbottomLouis]

Traditional archery is a journey not a one and done type thing. Slow down, enjoy the journey and accept the fact that you will likely not settle on what you start with.

A general rules of thumb is to stay at least 10 grains per pound. You are pulling around 48 pounds so shoot for a total arrow weight with a minimum of 480 grains. Depending on how much weight you put up front you will likely be shooting either a 500 or 600 spined arrow. Lancaster sells individual arrows and arrow shafts. The Gold Tip warrior is a good inexpensive carbon arrow that would be good to start with. I would recommend buying some 500 spine warriors and some 100 grain brass inserts. Leave the arrow full length to start, then try some different field point weights and shoot a bareshaft. Once you find the weight that flys the best, then look into some broadheads in that weight. If the field point weight that flys the best is lighter than you want, then you can have your arrows cut down a bit and then increase the tip weight until it is flying good again.

Every little change will affect your tune but your fletching's will correct minor changes. You have plenty of time to get tuned in before next season. In my experience, if you can get a bareshaft flying well, your broadheads will fly good too, at least at close ranges.

I hope this helps in some way. I felt very overwhelmed as well when I started shooting trad. Just take it one step at a time and don't get frustrated when things don't work perfect immediately. With little tweaks you will get an arrow flying good and build your confidence. Lastly, it is important to remember that tuning can be very difficult if you have inconsistent form. Once you have an arrow flying decent, spend your energy on getting a very consistent shot cycle. Once you have done that, you can tweak your arrow tune with much less frustration.

Welcome to the Trad world. It is addicting!

Yes, I most definitely need to work on consistent form. I have the bow by me most of the day. I draw and hold for a bit every 10-20 min. I work from home unless I'm with a client so have doing this a lot to build up my stamina with the bow so I can hopefully shoot more than 10 before it starts effecting my draw soon.

 

[CrackbottomLouis]

EDIT: DANG IT I THOUGHT THIS WAS COMPOUNDS, my apologies, please ignore! Heart was in the right place...

Yeah this is too much ground to cover... couple thoughts. I have a 30” draw and I think my arrows are right around 29”... so those will work for you and if anything will be long. Your broadheads have a higher chance of being in tune if your field points are flying straight, but how do you know your field points are flying straight? I’ll walk through some basics, but this is a deep topic. First, somehow do what you can to verify that your bow is shooting with the cams in synch. A bow shop can help with this, or you can make a draw board at home which is actually very easy, It’s a board from Home Depot, a winch from Amazon, and some bolts. Either (1) you get lucky and the bow is in tune or (2) you need a shop to help or (3) you need a draw board and a bow press at home. Let me tell you, a cheap drawboard is very handy. I attached a pic of my home setup. Then set your nock point and your rest. This is a while bit of research in itself. Once you have that shoot through paper to a target, arrows both WITH and WITHOUT fletchings on them. If you are pretty close, nock low tears mean drop your rest a little at a time, and nock right tears mean move your rest left a little at a time. If you’re still off, your bow is probably not setup correctly or you have a lot of torque in the way you grip the bow. Let’s assume things are working. Me personally, I am always shooting a few arrows in my groups without fletchings, because these are the only arrows that are being honest with you. I also have a piece of cardboard with a big hole in it, which I put paper over the hole and set in front of a target, and shoot bareshafts through at various ranges... for me bareshafts flying straight at 10-15 yards is good enough. If bareshafts are flying reasonably straight, fletched shafts should fly very well, and you have a better chance that broadheads are going to fly good. In summary [1] slowly piece together how to get your bow setup, one way or the other (and do look up arrow spine tables to make sure your arrows are spined right, Is go carbon), [2] look up how to hold a bow and work on doing this correctly, don’t be afraid to put a bunch of arrows into the target [3] once your grip is decent / neutral shoot fletched and bareshafts through paper at varying ranges max 10-15 yards to learn what the system is doing by inspecting your paper tears, [4] once you have some confidence here start shooting at longer ranges, and eventually trying broadheads, there are probably the most options in 100 grain weight. Good luck, it’s a never ending process.

Very nice of you to post such a detailed post anyway

 

[CrackbottomLouis]

His test kit wI'll be in the zone
Assuming he draws 28, and is cutying 1 inch over for bh clearance.

Take a breath. Forget foc and gpp. Order some easton xx75 1916 and put some 125g field points on them and go shoot. After you've put a couple thousand shots through it reevaluate.

Think I should get the Easton test kit and find "best as I can tell" spine weight, cut them right and put the 125gr on em?

 

[CrackbottomLouis]

Traditional archery is a journey not a one and done type thing. Slow down, enjoy the journey and accept the fact that you will likely not settle on what you start with.

A general rules of thumb is to stay at least 10 grains per pound. You are pulling around 48 pounds so shoot for a total arrow weight with a minimum of 480 grains. Depending on how much weight you put up front you will likely be shooting either a 500 or 600 spined arrow. Lancaster sells individual arrows and arrow shafts. The Gold Tip warrior is a good inexpensive carbon arrow that would be good to start with. I would recommend buying some 500 spine warriors and some 100 grain brass inserts. Leave the arrow full length to start, then try some different field point weights and shoot a bareshaft. Once you find the weight that flys the best, then look into some broadheads in that weight. If the field point weight that flys the best is lighter than you want, then you can have your arrows cut down a bit and then increase the tip weight until it is flying good again.

Every little change will affect your tune but your fletching's will correct minor changes. You have plenty of time to get tuned in before next season. In my experience, if you can get a bareshaft flying well, your broadheads will fly good too, at least at close ranges.

I hope this helps in some way. I felt very overwhelmed as well when I started shooting trad. Just take it one step at a time and don't get frustrated when things don't work perfect immediately. With little tweaks you will get an arrow flying good and build your confidence. Lastly, it is important to remember that tuning can be very difficult if you have inconsistent form. Once you have an arrow flying decent, spend your energy on getting a very consistent shot cycle. Once you have done that, you can tweak your arrow tune with much less frustration.

Welcome to the Trad world. It is addicting!

Gonna look at those gold tip warriors ad compare them to the Easton's. Maybe they have a test kit for those too.

Edit...well would you look at that! They do have a test kit for those ad its 26 bucks

 

[neonomad]

Very nice of you to post such a detailed post anyway

I goofed!
Enjoy the journey!

 

[Recurveaholic]

The main thing with trad is have fun don't think too much until you have shot a thousand arrows (just like @Vtbow said) have fun enjoy it try to keep good form with a consistent shot routine and after that it will come natural and you can work on everything else! Enjoy it and welcome to the trad gang!!! If you need any help feel free to pm me! Hope this helps!

 

[gumby]

You can't buy or read your way into shooting a recurve.

 

[Vtbow]

Think I should get the Easton test kit and find "best as I can tell" spine weight, cut them right and put the 125gr on em?

Naw, honestly. I would:
1) make a choice of whether you want to shoot wood, carbon, or aluminum. I shoot wood and aluminum. they're easier to work on yourself(cutting) and generally easier to guild a heavier arrow without fooling around with weights too much.

2) Call 3 rivers, tell them your specs and bow--get their suggestion for an arrow based upon what you decided to shoot.

3) Order a dozen of them.

4) shoot A LOT.

Buying a test kit is great, but until your form is consistent and your muscle memory is built up it will be a little hard to read them 100% Use that money and buy a dozen arrows.

In all seriousness, easton xxx75 1916 cut to your length with some 5" feathers on them should put you right in the zone. STat with the 125gr point, and if you feel then need to adjust spine at all in the future, you can either add more weight to the tip, or build out your riser little to bring in pre-center cut.

Have fun and dont overthink it. Traditional is all about simplicity to me.

 

[CrackbottomLouis]

Naw, honestly. I would:
1) make a choice of whether you want to shoot wood, carbon, or aluminum. I shoot wood and aluminum. they're easier to work on yourself(cutting) and generally easier to guild a heavier arrow without fooling around with weights too much.

2) Call 3 rivers, tell them your specs and bow--get their suggestion for an arrow based upon what you decided to shoot.

3) Order a dozen of them.

4) shoot A LOT.

Buying a test kit is great, but until your form is consistent and your muscle memory is built up it will be a little hard to read them 100% Use that money and buy a dozen arrows.

In all seriousness, easton xxx75 1916 cut to your length with some 5" feathers on them should put you right in the zone. STat with the 125gr point, and if you feel then need to adjust spine at all in the future, you can either add more weight to the tip, or build out your riser little to bring in pre-center cut.

Have fun and dont overthink it. Traditional is all about simplicity to me.

Doing this today.

 

[CrackbottomLouis]

Naw, honestly. I would:
1) make a choice of whether you want to shoot wood, carbon, or aluminum. I shoot wood and aluminum. they're easier to work on yourself(cutting) and generally easier to guild a heavier arrow without fooling around with weights too much.

2) Call 3 rivers, tell them your specs and bow--get their suggestion for an arrow based upon what you decided to shoot.

3) Order a dozen of them.

4) shoot A LOT.

Buying a test kit is great, but until your form is consistent and your muscle memory is built up it will be a little hard to read them 100% Use that money and buy a dozen arrows.

In all seriousness, easton xxx75 1916 cut to your length with some 5" feathers on them should put you right in the zone. STat with the 125gr point, and if you feel then need to adjust spine at all in the future, you can either add more weight to the tip, or build out your riser little to bring in pre-center cut.

Have fun and dont overthink it. Traditional is all about simplicity to me.

Got a string and 6 easton tributes 2016 cut to 29" with inserts en route per 3 rivers suggestion. Buddy has a square and the brass nock things for me and a field tip test kit. Figured it cant hurt just to try a couple tip weights before I buy them since I have a test kit available.

 

[swampsnyper]

I started this write up this morning but my computer locked up and I lost it all before I finished....

Get an arrow saw or make one. You will need it to tune/cut your arrows. Get carbon arrows to start with. Its the toughest option out there and you will be doing a lot of shooting and pulling arrows and possibly missing. Get a bow square to set brace height and nock height. Get a test field tip kit. Have an idea of what broadhead you want to shoot and what weights are available in that head. Solid foam target works best for tuning because the arrow usually stays pointing the way it hit the target without being steered by layers or different densities of filling.

Understand for a right handed shooter (opposite for a lefty):
More weight on the tip makes the arrow fly tip right, nock left or weaker.
More weight on the nock end makes the arrow fly tip left, nock right or stiffer.
Shorter the arrow the stiffer it is, longer the arrow the weaker it is.
You will tune the arrow so that it flexes at the shot enough to clear the shelf as it flies, flexing at 1st but is still tracking straight even though it is flexing.


All you need is one bare shaft arrow for the 1st few months. If you are set on a broadhead and weight, start with that size tip. Or if you want it as short as possible, you will keep loading up tip weight as you keep trimming until it is the desired length in front of the shelf. Set your nock height 1in above the shelf and the brace height at manufactures recommended measurement (usually 7-8in).

You are gonna want to shoot a full length bare shaft with insert glued and field tip installed. If you will be hunting with lighted nocks, then you need to tune with them installed. The difference in weight will change your tuning. Same with arrow wraps, but you can add that when you get closer to a tuned arrow. Shoot the bare shaft arrow with a point on at 5 yards. If it's showing weak, thats good. You can use those shafts with that tip weight. If it's showing stiff, you will need a weaker spined shaft or heavier tip. I'm guessing 400 spined arrows if you are using heavy tip weights and 500 spined arrows if your are a little lighter. Shoot 3 times, concentrating on good form with the same release. You are trying to get that arrow to be pointing straight back at you, not particularly hitting the spot you want to hit. With the nock point on your string set 1in high, you should be seeing the arrow nock higher than the arrow tip. Don't reference how its angled in the target. You are referencing the arrow in a straight line from point to nock to your eye. Your goal is to make the arrow in a straight line to your eye from where you shot. You will need to lower your string nock 1/16 at a time, then shoot. Keep lowering it until the arrow is just a little nock high at this point. If you go too low, the arrows nock end will bounce off your shelf showing a false reading of nock high. Thats why you always want to start with nock high and slowly work your way down. You can fine tune your string nock later once you get the arrow flying left and right straight. String nock location is normally around 1/2in to 3/4in above the shelf depending on arrow diameter and shooting style.

If your arrow is still showing weak, cut it a 1/4in from the nock end because you already glued your insert in on the tip end. Make 3 good released shots at 5 yards and keep trimming a 1/4in at a time until the weak arrow, nock left, is pretty close in line with your line of sight. Thats a good enough arrow to practice with and perfect your form. Shoot that one arrow for a few months until you feel consistent.

You now got the idea of what needs to be done to tune further.
Things to remember:
The further you shoot, the drag of the bare shaft will start to straighten the arrow flight out just like the drag of feathers. I've noticed this starting to take place after 15 yards on a closely tuned arrow, so most of your tuning will be within 15 yards. After I'm liking what I'm seeing at 5, 10 and 15 yards, I like to back up and just watch the flight of the bare shaft on a good release. I might shoot it 30-40 yards. From 5-10 its hard to see the quick flight but while its in the air at 15-20 I can usually see any flaws on flight. A white nock, arrow wrap, or lighted nock really helps me see the tail end in relation to the rest of the arrow. If I'm seeing the shaft in front of the nock, I can fine tune it to where all I can see is the nock in flight or close to it. You can also fine tune by adjusting the brace height. More brace height slows your bow down so it will make you arrow fly stiff. The faster your bow performs the weaker it will make your arrow fly. Same goes for string silencers. More weight on the string, the slower it will shoot. So it's a good idea to have all that set before you start tuning, especially fine tuning.
I always save a tuned bareshaft arrow to check my bow tune if I'm suspecting something out of wack. If your bareshaft is tuned, then your field points will hit that same spot and your broadheads, if they spin true, will hit that same spot. Feathers just help with giving forgiveness to a bad release or skimming a vine, etc. Don't shoot broadheads without feathers. Thats a rutter on the front of a boat with the engine on the back!
Good luck. PM me if you need help.

 

[Blacksmith]

Lots of good info. Don't be overwelmed. Just order a doz alum. shafts. They are cheaper than carbon. 3 Rivers can tell you where to start. I use 2216s in my 48#. 2219s shoot well too. Just practice and have fun w/it before you worry about having them perfectly tuned. Easton Game Getters are about as cheap as you can get but I've shot aluminums for 40 yrs w/ good performance. Just enjoy the flight of the arrow.

 

[Vtbow]

Oh yeah, start with your brave height at about 8.25. Twist your stringx or untwist to adjust. Stick with the height where the bow is quietest.

Start with a brass knock point and don't crimp it all the way, you and then twist it and it will go up or down the serving depending on which way you turn it. Once you figure out where you like it. I tie one on and remove the brass. Go with 2 knock points, one above and one below.

 

[Blacksmith]

That bow will be tillered for split fingers, meaning your index above the nock, and middle and ring fingers under nock.

 

[DaveT1963]

I would not suggest bare or paper tuning until your form is down. It will be hard to get consistent results. Use a good arrow chart or Stu's calculator to get close to spine. Start at LOW end of manufacturer brace height and slowly twist up string until noise vibration is acceptable. Nock point start at 3/4 above center and work down until you eliminate up/down flight.

Then join a local trad club if you can. Three Rivers is also a good source of info. Once you get your form down then you can worry with bare shaft or paper tuning. But that is not necessary. Broadhead tuning to get them to fly same as field points is a better method IME. Then back up and shoot broadhead to 50 yards to fine tune.... which can be done with brace height or sight window material.

Welcome aboard and you picked a great starter bow.