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Dual Tether Ropes

To answer OP, firstly, I’ve asked a number of way dumber questions on here and generally, they’re answered with grace. Lots of humor and sarcasm once guys get to know you, but nobody’s really judging you too harshly around here, especially when you’re asking how to be as safe as possible.
Speaking personally, I’ve thrown a second tether or dropped a 40’ lifeline (I always have a rappel rope in my pack, or sometimes hunt from a tree with a muddy safeline but NOT using the muddy as my primary connection) when I’m sketched by the tree or straps or sticks or whatever. I’ve also left a second tether attached to a different limb or trunk so I can connect in a different section of the tree, but I don’t usually hunt trees that big and when I do it’s not shameful at all to hook a LB or second tether If you can hunt with confidence.

Honestly, the best advice I’ve been given is to keep slack out of your system as much as possible.
 
I think I would encourage the OP to work on building confidence in his setup before pretty much anything else. I am assuming all of his components are climb rated. I would suggest setting your platform if you have one about knee high, set you tether, get everything positioned and under load then let yourself swing off the platform, play with adjusting your bridge and/or tether hitch for more or less length, etc. Learn how all the pieces work together and build trust it is going to hold you just fine while staying close to the ground. Then go up a stick and do it again. I am not a fan of heights at all but am way more comfortable and confident using saddle gear than I ever have been with any other method.
 
I would agree that you are very understandably over reacting as this is uncharted territory for you and you dont want to fall 20' out of a tree, i get it...that said, with continued practice and research you will find just how safe saddle hunting is as compared to other methods. I am one of the back up for my backup guys and still only use one tether as the likelihood of it failing is just extremally rare. I lean more on stopper knots and having an autoblock on below my friction hitch.

Keep up the practice, take things slow, use a linemans belt, stop and re-evaluate if\when things feel sketchy, and ask questions.
 
white03 said:
I'm very new to saddle hunting, actually only had my setup a week now. So forgive me please if this is a redundant or stupid question.

I've been practicing in the backyard and reading voraciously on this site, a whole lot of good and helpful info.

Saftey is important to all of us, as I have read repeatedly. With all the saftey devices and backup saftey devices (methods), one thing that seems to me to be overlooked is the tether rope. To me that it is a single point of failure, if it breaks then you're going down.

Tell me if I'm over reacting?? Does anyone use a second tether??

Again, please be kind. :) Thank you
Click to expand...
Please clarify and expand on what you envision with 2 tethers.
Are you talking 2 tethers with 2 friction hitches (or mechanical ascenders) going to one carabiner and a single bridge? Or 2 totally independent attachment systems...2 tethers, 2 bridges, 2 hitches, etc.
It's been said on this site a thousand times...manage your own risk level. This discussion is no different. You'll have to decide what level of risk you are willing to accept and the fact is the minute your feet leave the ground you are at some level of risk.
I'm from the old school and in those early days none of us owned safety harnesses or gave much attention to safety. With the grace of God, I never had any serious accidents or falls while hunting.
I'm far more conscious of saftey in my old age but I still take some risks. I guess it's all relative to the lack of safety that I used to employ.
So with that said, (and this is just me and my opinion) I would not attempt 2 tethers. Too much messing around with duplicate systems could actually make for less attention to individual details of each system.
I envision frustration with fiddle factor which could lead to missed details. Extra movement, extra noise, more gear weight, extra time to unpack-rig- un rig- repack...too much messing around.
Use the proper ropes, tie appropriate hitches correctly, always tie stoppers, minimize slack and inspect everything regularly and IMO, you'll be fine with that aspect of saddle hunting.
Something else you MUST be aware of is self rescue in the event of an in-tree accident that leaves you hanging.
Read up on "suspension trauma" and have a plan to self rescue.
 
white03 said:
I'm very new to saddle hunting, actually only had my setup a week now. So forgive me please if this is a redundant or stupid question.

I've been practicing in the backyard and reading voraciously on this site, a whole lot of good and helpful info.

Saftey is important to all of us, as I have read repeatedly. With all the saftey devices and backup saftey devices (methods), one thing that seems to me to be overlooked is the tether rope. To me that it is a single point of failure, if it breaks then you're going down.

Tell me if I'm over reacting?? Does anyone use a second tether??

Again, please be kind. :) Thank you
Click to expand...
White03, If my name is unfamiliar, i started "saddle hunting" 16 yrs ago, a good 10yrs before I heard of saddle hunting. I had nobody to ask and had to learn a lot on my own and have lately taken to sharing this info.

1. It is a normal and natural feeling to be completely uncomfortable when ya first get in a saddle at hunting height and your brain starts saying: are u freaking kidding me? This tiny little rope is gonna hold me? " And a normal reaction is to want a 2nd rope. And you can use one if it makes you more comfortable... But hold on....

2. I have been trained and become the trainer on topics like Risk Assessment and FMEA, failure modes and effects analysis... and that training tells us to look at all components and all failure sequence of events and assess their probability and consequences. Here's my conclusion, summarizing my entire climbing career:

These are the 4 things i trust with my life:
1. I trust the tree I chose and where i am tied into it.
2. I trust that a climbing rated rope that inspected and in good shape will not snap.
3. I trust the saddle I am in. (Note that I don't trust ALL saddles... I trust only the best.)
4. I trust a rated, triple action carabiner.

Everything else I do not trust and must have a backup. This includes anything my feet go on. That can go away and i am never hurt. Anything that moves and grips a rope must be backed up. Know your devices if you choose to use them.

Also:

I must be on zero slack (maybe a few inches) at all times.

I never use a tether... always a lifeline, effectively a tether that reaches the ground.

I have a website and a dedicated PAGE and Playlist on safety. I spent a lot of time creating it for nothing than the opportunity to help out my brothers like you. Hopefully, you will find value in it.

JRB Tree Climbing - JrbTreeClimbing.com

JRB Tree Climbing and Saddle Hunting Links to: YouTube Channel, Patreon, Facebook Group (private), Facebook Page (public): YouTube Patreon Facebook Facebook Use the following buttons to navigate the website, which is managed by JRB, as an informational service. You can support JRB Tree Climbing...
jrbtreeclimbing.com

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
 
BTaylor said:
I think I would encourage the OP to work on building confidence in his setup before pretty much anything else. I am assuming all of his components are climb rated. I would suggest setting your platform if you have one about knee high, set you tether, get everything positioned and under load then let yourself swing off the platform, play with adjusting your bridge and/or tether hitch for more or less length, etc. Learn how all the pieces work together and build trust it is going to hold you just fine while staying close to the ground. Then go up a stick and do it again. I am not a fan of heights at all but am way more comfortable and confident using saddle gear than I ever have been with any other method.
Click to expand...
This^^^^

at ground level, have everything set up as you would at height. Rotate as far each way as you can. Keep pushing your extremes like putting foot on edge of platform and trying to get as far around the tree as you can…… try to fall out of your saddle.
Trust and confidence will come. Redundancy may be frowned on by some, but absolutely respected by others, including me! Welcome to saddle hunting!
 
Inspect gear, learn how to properly tie,set and dress hitches/knots practice practice practice. Everyone has to determine their risk mitigation level . I am older and don't heal as fast so slow and methodical is my jam. Be safe no matter what because your loved ones need you.
 
Multiple tethers is truly only effective if you're tied into two separate trees. You aren't wrong thinking about redundancy though.

When tree climbing, it's the tree and its components that have a higher probability of failure and killing you, compared to any other factor (equipment, rope). If you use rated gear, that's in good condition (and you know how to use it), you won't experience a failure. There's a gigantic safety margin built into rated gear.

Learn to risk assess a tree. Maybe I'll throw some tips up if I remember this weekend. Tie in failure is usually the top cause of fatalities amongst arborists. Thinking a tree was solid when it had inner decay etc

Get some formal training if you can too. Even if it's a local REI on proper abseil techniques.
 
Thank you John for the long and detailed response, I'll take it to heart and have visited you site. It's amazing the breath of knowledge you share. I becoming more confident in ropes and climbing

And a big thanx to eveyonre who contributed to this post and helpful/informative replies.

THANX ALL!!
 
white03 said:
Thank you John for the long and detailed response, I'll take it to heart and have visited you site. It's amazing the breath of knowledge you share. I becoming more confident in ropes and climbing

And a big thanx to eveyonre who contributed to this post and helpful/informative replies.

THANX ALL!!
Click to expand...
You're welcome. I typed that at 2am with my thumbs, just because I try to do something every day to just help someone. Someday, when you're an expert, you will return the favor for someone else... just like the guys did above. The SH is truly a brotherly group. We gotta few daredevils but that's no crime. I was a daredevil too when I was young... i got lucky not getting hurt. Now I give thanks by giving back.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
 
TreeRecon said:
Multiple tethers is truly only effective if you're tied into two separate trees. You aren't wrong thinking about redundancy though.

When tree climbing, it's the tree and its components that have a higher probability of failure and killing you, compared to any other factor (equipment, rope). If you use rated gear, that's in good condition (and you know how to use it), you won't experience a failure. There's a gigantic safety margin built into rated gear.

Learn to risk assess a tree. Maybe I'll throw some tips up if I remember this weekend. Tie in failure is usually the top cause of fatalities amongst arborists. Thinking a tree was solid when it had inner decay etc

Get some formal training if you can too. Even if it's a local REI on proper abseil techniques.
Click to expand...
Spot on. I started up a hackberry one morning without really checking it all that well in the dark. Got up to where I was going to hang the stand and shifted my weight some. When I did the tree swayed some. The tree was a little bigger than a basketball and I had never felt one that size do that and it got my attention. I climbed down and walked around the tree only to find the back side with a big hollow hole going up into the tree. Picked me a different tree to hunt from that morning and havent climbed one since that I havent looked at closely.
 
John RB said:
White03, If my name is unfamiliar, i started "saddle hunting" 16 yrs ago, a good 10yrs before I heard of saddle hunting. I had nobody to ask and had to learn a lot on my own and have lately taken to sharing this info.

1. It is a normal and natural feeling to be completely uncomfortable when ya first get in a saddle at hunting height and your brain starts saying: are u freaking kidding me? This tiny little rope is gonna hold me? " And a normal reaction is to want a 2nd rope. And you can use one if it makes you more comfortable... But hold on....

2. I have been trained and become the trainer on topics like Risk Assessment and FMEA, failure modes and effects analysis... and that training tells us to look at all components and all failure sequence of events and assess their probability and consequences. Here's my conclusion, summarizing my entire climbing career:

These are the 4 things i trust with my life:
1. I trust the tree I chose and where i am tied into it.
2. I trust that a climbing rated rope that inspected and in good shape will not snap.
3. I trust the saddle I am in. (Note that I don't trust ALL saddles... I trust only the best.)
4. I trust a rated, triple action carabiner.

Everything else I do not trust and must have a backup. This includes anything my feet go on. That can go away and i am never hurt. Anything that moves and grips a rope must be backed up. Know your devices if you choose to use them.

Also:

I must be on zero slack (maybe a few inches) at all times.

I never use a tether... always a lifeline, effectively a tether that reaches the ground.

I have a website and a dedicated PAGE and Playlist on safety. I spent a lot of time creating it for nothing than the opportunity to help out my brothers like you. Hopefully, you will find value in it.

JRB Tree Climbing - JrbTreeClimbing.com

JRB Tree Climbing and Saddle Hunting Links to: YouTube Channel, Patreon, Facebook Group (private), Facebook Page (public): YouTube Patreon Facebook Facebook Use the following buttons to navigate the website, which is managed by JRB, as an informational service. You can support JRB Tree Climbing...
jrbtreeclimbing.com

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
Click to expand...

An admin should just pin this post for future reference. The four points is the clearest and most concise list I've seen when it comes to hanging in a tree.
 
I totally agree with tie assessment and receiving training can shorten learning curve as well as mitigate risk.
 
jphillips97 said:
Oh you can be certain I am not applying my risk assessment. You can all do what you want. You can have 6 tethers for all I care. The statements I made are ones of verifiable fact. Climbing ropes ARE strong enough to pull a car. Sewn connections are as well. Rock climbers DO put more stress on gear. The OP asked if he was over-reacting. I think he probably is, but that is ultimately up to him. I provided factual information about the gear and its use. YMMV
Click to expand...
Please forgive me if this comes across as direct but I was staying out of this until this statement….. Quick question, rock climbers typically climb on dynamic rope which is made to stretch 25% at 300 lbs and rated for multiple falls, while saddle hunters typically use static rope that is rated for MBS instead and only stretches around 3% or less at 300 lbs…. Rock climbers usually only add force to their gear when a fall occurs, while a saddle hunter typically applies load to their gear 85 to 95 percent of the time. Tree bark can and often does damage rope as quickly as smoother crag and rock climbers often use anchor and chafe guards to prevent rope abrasions. Finally which creates higher forces in your mind a 1.5:1 fall that is 2’ on static rope, or a 1.5:1 fall that is 20’ on dynamic?

Once you have considered all factors I’ve listed, what makes you so sure that rock climbers do put more stress on their gear than saddle hunters?
 
TreeRecon said:
Multiple tethers is truly only effective if you're tied into two separate trees. You aren't wrong thinking about redundancy though.

When tree climbing, it's the tree and its components that have a higher probability of failure and killing you, compared to any other factor (equipment, rope). If you use rated gear, that's in good condition (and you know how to use it), you won't experience a failure. There's a gigantic safety margin built into rated gear.

Learn to risk assess a tree. Maybe I'll throw some tips up if I remember this weekend. Tie in failure is usually the top cause of fatalities amongst arborists. Thinking a tree was solid when it had inner decay etc

Get some formal training if you can too. Even if it's a local REI on proper abseil techniques.
Click to expand...
^^^ all of this. We are much more likely to accidentally pick a tree with weak roots, dead branches and the like than well maintained and inspected gear is to fail!
 
white03 said:
Thank you John for the long and detailed response, I'll take it to heart and have visited you site. It's amazing the breath of knowledge you share. I becoming more confident in ropes and climbing

And a big thanx to eveyonre who contributed to this post and helpful/informative replies.

THANX ALL!!
Click to expand...
Where are you located? Maybe you can find a meet up to go to so that more experienced climbers can help you at ground level with building your confidence. Statistically you are most likely to “fall” transitioning between your climbing method and your platform than you would be for your tether to fail. I personally stay away from rope man’s and kongs these days and I have gone to better hitches such as the Cornell, Michoacan, and the schwabish. Start slow, a foot or two from the ground and work on building confidence and trusting your gear. Learn to properly inspect your ropes and saddle, and learn good cleaning and storage techniques. You’ll get many years of safe usage and God willing learn to be completely incident free. Happy hunting
 
One factor that seems to be overlooked is arborist and rch's are meant to be suspended from ( especially arborist) during ascent/ descent while hunting saddles are more for hanging once at height. Also while hunting saddles are constructed out of some similar materials as work saddles they are fragile in comparison ( due to additional hardware and padding) but sufficient for intended use. Of course rope access professions I imagine do alot more gyrations and radical repositioning than the average saddle hunters.
 
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