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fall arrest question

neonomad

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Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
498
Nice!

I’d rather take a 28” fall off a climber with a screamer to an RC harness vs the same fall with a Recon - belt loosened - right to the rope as I’m standing on the top of a stick. (Not to pick on the Recon, it’s a great saddle)
 

Jtaylor

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Dec 25, 2018
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Here's a photo of the tag on the lanyard stating "For arrest, this product must be used with a suitable shock absorber." My take away on this: Falls generate a tremendous amount of force at just a short distance. It's imperative to have zero slack in your system OR use a shock absorber, harness designed to be used in arrest, suspension relief strap and a self rescue plan.
I am unfamiliar with climbing ropes and climbing certifications. Is it possible a dynamic climbing rope works the same as a shock absorber on a harness and are able to take a fall with lighter materials like a rock climbing harness?
20201119_142516.jpg
 

raisins

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Jan 17, 2019
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Here's a photo of the tag on the lanyard stating "For arrest, this product must be used with a suitable shock absorber." My take away on this: Falls generate a tremendous amount of force at just a short distance. It's imperative to have zero slack in your system OR use a shock absorber, harness designed to be used in arrest, suspension relief strap and a self rescue plan.
I am unfamiliar with climbing ropes and climbing certifications. Is it possible a dynamic climbing rope works the same as a shock absorber on a harness and are able to take a fall with lighter materials like a rock climbing harness?
View attachment 39646
Short lengths of dynamic, climbing rope don't stretch enough to count that much. Stretch is a percent of the line that is out. If you only have a few feet of line, then it isn't giving enough compared to a climber with 30 feet or more of rope.
 
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
89
Your tether and lineman's belt are not fall arrest systems, they are fall restraints. You should avoid any slack with any of your lines when using a saddle. This site does a great job explaining the difference between the two: https://simplifiedsafety.co.uk/resources/personal-fall-protection/fall-arrest-vs-fall-restraint-what-is-the-difference. As others have mentioned, you shouldn't set yourself up to fall any distance in a saddle (vs a tree stand where you'r seated). However, majority of all tree stand accidents are climbing up and down or into/out of the stand, not when you're sitting. So if you are using your linemen belt correctly, you shouldn't experience a fall arrest if you slip climbing (you'll experience a painful crunch into the tree or sticks maybe,e but your lineman belt and harness will basically be a swing. If you have slack in your tether while standing on a platform, you're doing it wrong. Hope that helps.
 

TreeMunkie

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Jan 6, 2020
Messages
139
I’ve learned a heckuva a lot from the “had a bad day” threads, more than I’ve learned from personal mishaps thankfully!
Same. Which is why I don't mind pointing out the stupid things I have done and looking like a doofus. Some things I have read on this site would have never crossed my mind until I had to deal with them. Which in some cases is too late. Like never putting your fingers under your tether when adjusting it up/down the tree. Never occurred to me. Now it is something I make sure I avoid. We all just want to get home safe.
 

CooterBrown

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Sep 1, 2020
Messages
506
Same. Which is why I don't mind pointing out the stupid things I have done and looking like a doofus. Some things I have read on this site would have never crossed my mind until I had to deal with them. Which in some cases is too late. Like never putting your fingers under your tether when adjusting it up/down the tree. Never occurred to me. Now it is something I make sure I avoid. We all just want to get home safe.
What is the best option for handles on the tether to help pull it up without putting your finger behind the rope and the tree?
 

swampdonkey

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May 25, 2019
Messages
232
Location
Wisconsin
I suppose I'm mainly concerned if I was moving around the tree for a shot and my body was relatively upright and I slipped on the platform or step and the saddle has to take up 100% of my weight in an upright position, am I safe?
Borrow or Buy a saddle and then try to fall out of it at ground level.

I assure you it will put your mind at ease.
 

dbd1313

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Nov 17, 2020
Messages
10
Borrow or Buy a saddle and then try to fall out of it at ground level.

I assure you it will put your mind at ease.
Got one on the way. I'm satisfied its safe enough. It will be perfect for the area I hunt. Lots of twisted oaks.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

mattsteg

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Sep 26, 2018
Messages
2,094
Which one were you talking about?
Fall Arrest.

UIAA certification for a harness is pretty much just strength and size of the webbing where considered "load bearing". Nothing to do with fall arrest directly.

If you build a complete system with dynamic rope, energy absorbing, etc...maybe you start to get close. But that's way outside of the standard for harnesses.

The guidelines for arresting the fall are much more in the rope specs than the harness specs.

Fall arrest is a complete system to survivably catch a fall.
 

D.AKINS

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2019
Messages
63
Location
Madison County, AL
I am glad these discussions are going on as I await delivery of my first saddle and more importantly I hope everyone is reading, digesting, and double checking their gear and climbing process. Every time you climb, think what is worst case scenario and prevent it. Take no shortcuts, be safe and live to tell those hunting stories to your kids and grandkids.
 

rutjr

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Oct 6, 2018
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Location
Cumberland, RI
There's not much I can add that has not already been said but if you are using your saddle properly you can't fall, you may slip but not fall. I have slipped a few times but my saddle held me rock solid. Your safety harness that you get with your treestand helps to keep you from hitting the ground. You may fall a few feet but the sudden shock of the stop hurts.
 

dlist777

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Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
672
I wear this under my JX3. It's a minimalist RC harness connected to a ripstop. Works great. I dont notice it
Screenshot_20201103-144118_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20201122-013437_Chrome.jpg
 

ffastfzr

New Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
39
Location
NY
I remember having heated discussions about this topic on archerytalk a bunch of years back when people started ditching their full body harnesses and started wearing rock climbing harnesses instead.
there are several risks we as saddle hunters take that a climber wouldn't. First, a climber wouldn't hang on a mechanical ascender or a prusik for a second longer than absolutely necessary, if at all. The second is that a climber would never allow themselves to be in a position to fall on a static line. A fall of slightly more than one foot on a static line can exert enough force to cause serious injury.
Realistically, you probably face a greater chance of being injured due to falling on a static line than you do by either your saddle failing in a fall, or you sliding out of your saddle during a fall.
 

raisins

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Jan 17, 2019
Messages
1,780
I remember having heated discussions about this topic on archerytalk a bunch of years back when people started ditching their full body harnesses and started wearing rock climbing harnesses instead.
there are several risks we as saddle hunters take that a climber wouldn't. First, a climber wouldn't hang on a mechanical ascender or a prusik for a second longer than absolutely necessary, if at all. The second is that a climber would never allow themselves to be in a position to fall on a static line. A fall of slightly more than one foot on a static line can exert enough force to cause serious injury.
Realistically, you probably face a greater chance of being injured due to falling on a static line than you do by either your saddle failing in a fall, or you sliding out of your saddle during a fall.
I totally get this but here's my question (and why I think a lot of people aren't taking this serious enough): why is it that I've fallen 1 to 3 feet onto the floor/etc many times (I liked to party in college) and I was okay afterwards but a fall of 1 foot onto a rope/harness is going to be a lot worse (the floor is very static)? My guess is that it whiplashes your back, etc while the floor doesn't.

With all this safety talk, I'm considering going to my Metolius Safe Tech Patriot harness next year with a sit drag or fleece saddle. And then my tether would use a screamer/shock absorber and at height I would tie the tether to my bridge as a back up.
 

ffastfzr

New Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
39
Location
NY
I totally get this but here's my question (and why I think a lot of people aren't taking this serious enough): why is it that I've fallen 1 to 3 feet onto the floor/etc many times (I liked to party in college) and I was okay afterwards but a fall of 1 foot onto a rope/harness is going to be a lot worse (the floor is very static)? My guess is that it whiplashes your back, etc while the floor doesn't.

With all this safety talk, I'm considering going to my Metolius Safe Tech Patriot harness next year with a sit drag or fleece saddle. And then my tether would use a screamer/shock absorber and at height I would tie the tether to my bridge as a back up.
It's how the force is concentrated on your body. When you fall from one or two feet up to the floor, the force is spread out over more of your body. When you fall in a harness the force is applied your body where the straps of the harness are in contact with. Think of it like falling flat on the floor compared to falling the same distance but you get get caught across the waist by a 2x4 that's laying across a pit.
 
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