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Figure 9 descender

I watched some videos while just researching. Very cool tool, but curious bout a back up too.
 
I didn't watch the video but why not just use the Mammut 2.0? I went to that this year and love it. No moving parts, quiet and very safe. Its kind of a figure 9 as well I would say.
 
woodsdog2 said:
I didn't watch the video but why not just use the Mammut 2.0? I went to that this year and love it. No moving parts, quiet and very safe. Its kind of a figure 9 as well I would say.
Click to expand...
Thanks for tip on the Mammut 2.0. Just watched some videos on it. Do you climb and rappel with it? I like the idea of it functioning like a safeguard but having backup and 1/2 the price.
 
Praddle said:
Thanks for tip on the Mammut 2.0. Just watched some videos on it. Do you climb and rappel with it? I like the idea of it functioning like a safeguard but having backup and 1/2 the price.
Click to expand...
I do rappel with it. Have not climbed with it as I do not use my rappel line to climb or as my hunting height tether for a variety of reasons but mostly to keep my long rappel rope from getting wet and having to dry all that rope out. I just use it when I'm ready to descend. You do have to have the appropriate carabiner to work with the Mammut 2.0. though. I like it a lot. Hope this helps. I do believe @valerio024 climbs with his as well. He also has a great youtube channel where he goes over it.
 
woodsdog2 said:
I do rappel with it. Have not climbed with it as I do not use my rappel line to climb or as my hunting height tether for a variety of reasons but mostly to keep my long rappel rope from getting wet and having to dry all that rope out. I just use it when I'm ready to descend. You do have to have the appropriate carabiner to work with the Mammut 2.0. though. I like it a lot. Hope this helps. I do believe @valerio024 climbs with his as well. He also has a great youtube channel where he goes over it.
Click to expand...
That is the video I watched, very good. Exactly what carabiner do you recommend?
Have you tried using a roll pouch? This keeps the long end of the rappel rope protected from elements until time to descend, then super slick to deploy. Hoping that with the Mammut I can climb and descend like in the video and eliminate a ropeman for climb and switch to fig 8 for descent.
 
I use and recommend an HMS style carabiner for use with the Mammut 2.0: https://doublesteps.com/product/mammut-smart-2-0/ (scroll down to see the frequently bought together section).

BTW I'm glad to see Dano is offering this now. I had to get mine directly from Mammut but they shipped quick. Dano educates you while you spend your money!!! :eek: :tonguewink:
 
Praddle said:
Have you tried using a roll pouch? This keeps the long end of the rappel rope protected from elements until time to descend, then super slick to deploy. Hoping that with the Mammut I can climb and descend like in the video and eliminate a ropeman for climb and switch to fig 8 for descent.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have two roll pouches and they work fine but I've gone more minimalist on my actual saddle so now I just have a Latitude dump pouch for my climbing and hunting tether along with my Dyna Glyde cord for my bow pull up rope and rappel rope retrieval line and I just daisy chain my LB. My rappel line lives in a pocket on my pack along with my Mammut 2.0, carabiner, DMM Ripstop I use while climbing and finally a loop of sterling hollow block as a backup for my Mammut 2.0 while rappelling down exactly as shown in the video.
 
Got a rare 50 degree sunny day in February here in VT so I took the 9 out for a rip. While I've done some minor rappelling here or there in my 50 year life, I am a newbie when it comes to doing such from a hunting saddle. I know that being a couple years late to the rappelling party around here makes this sound a little foolish, but holy cow Batman...THAT is a lotta fun! I guess I was too enamored with my custom built sticks to just bring one in the woods, and I never saw the logic in rappelling when there were 3-4 perfectly good sticks to climb down.

Anyway, back to the 9. I was actually a little dubious before giving it a go, mostly because it is heavier and bulkier than it looks on a screen. I also have an ATC and at 7 oz for the 9 and 2 oz for the ATC, it seemed like a no brainer as to which would win the comparison. Not so. While the ATC performed exactly as expected, I just didn't like relying entirely on my break hand (with an autoblock to my LB) to control speed and start/stop. The lever action of the 9 gives you two points of control (assuming it is backed up with an autoblock to LB). The handle is so intuitive to pull with slight increases in tension to begin to descend. Wanna go faster? Pull a little harder. Wanna slow down? Ease up. Wanna go hands free to remove stuff? You confidently do so knowing the 9 and the auto block have you twice protected against slippage.

One pucker moment that is worth sharing. I think it was on my second descent I got a little aggressive and the rope slipped through pretty quickly before I caught myself. I didn't fall very far but it got my attention! I think what happened was that I had a full grip on the 9 and a full grip on the autoblock, and when the initial slippage happened my instinct was to squeeze both hands (maybe to catch myself?), which of course allowed much more rope to pass through the system much more quickly. Somehow one of the hands must have let go because I stopped and sat there catching my breath. It occurred to me that it is probably a bad idea to grab the 9 in your full hand. Kind of like don't test an electric fence by touching it with the palm side of your hand (so your hand doesn't close around the wire reflexively, for those that don't know this one). All remaining descents I just used the ends of two fingers (which was plenty) to engage the lever for descent. Several times I tested forcing a rapid slippage and just snapping those fingers off the lever, and bam! Stopped immediately every time. I even tried it with the autoblock loosened and squeezed so that only the 9 was going to catch me (though in my mind I was prepared to release the auto block if SHTF). Worked beautifully.

So....it was only one fun day of testing, but the 9 will be back out with me when we get rid of more of this snow and cold. The utility of the handle is worth the 5 oz difference compared to the ATC (as well as just using a biner/munter). I like that it is not mechanical in nature, is rated for 8mm rope, and was inexpensive. I wish it was a little smaller, but it's not a barrier to incorporating it in my system. I did not climb or hang with it on my tether, as that seemed like too much metal/weight/bulk. I just used a regular friction hitch for that and then installed it when it was time to rappel. Easy to do.

TLDR: The figure 9 works pretty well as a belay device. Even for this old and fat novice.
 
woodsdog2 said:
I didn't watch the video but why not just use the Mammut 2.0? I went to that this year and love it. No moving parts, quiet and very safe. Its kind of a figure 9 as well I would say.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing, but the Mammut 2.0 is not rated down to 8mm rope. I noticed this after purchasing and had to do the return of shame.
:cool:
 
TNSTAAFL said:
Got a rare 50 degree sunny day in February here in VT so I took the 9 out for a rip. While I've done some minor rappelling here or there in my 50 year life, I am a newbie when it comes to doing such from a hunting saddle. I know that being a couple years late to the rappelling party around here makes this sound a little foolish, but holy cow Batman...THAT is a lotta fun! I guess I was too enamored with my custom built sticks to just bring one in the woods, and I never saw the logic in rappelling when there were 3-4 perfectly good sticks to climb down.

Anyway, back to the 9. I was actually a little dubious before giving it a go, mostly because it is heavier and bulkier than it looks on a screen. I also have an ATC and at 7 oz for the 9 and 2 oz for the ATC, it seemed like a no brainer as to which would win the comparison. Not so. While the ATC performed exactly as expected, I just didn't like relying entirely on my break hand (with an autoblock to my LB) to control speed and start/stop. The lever action of the 9 gives you two points of control (assuming it is backed up with an autoblock to LB). The handle is so intuitive to pull with slight increases in tension to begin to descend. Wanna go faster? Pull a little harder. Wanna slow down? Ease up. Wanna go hands free to remove stuff? You confidently do so knowing the 9 and the auto block have you twice protected against slippage.

One pucker moment that is worth sharing. I think it was on my second descent I got a little aggressive and the rope slipped through pretty quickly before I caught myself. I didn't fall very far but it got my attention! I think what happened was that I had a full grip on the 9 and a full grip on the autoblock, and when the initial slippage happened my instinct was to squeeze both hands (maybe to catch myself?), which of course allowed much more rope to pass through the system much more quickly. Somehow one of the hands must have let go because I stopped and sat there catching my breath. It occurred to me that it is probably a bad idea to grab the 9 in your full hand. Kind of like don't test an electric fence by touching it with the palm side of your hand (so your hand doesn't close around the wire reflexively, for those that don't know this one). All remaining descents I just used the ends of two fingers (which was plenty) to engage the lever for descent. Several times I tested forcing a rapid slippage and just snapping those fingers off the lever, and bam! Stopped immediately every time. I even tried it with the autoblock loosened and squeezed so that only the 9 was going to catch me (though in my mind I was prepared to release the auto block if SHTF). Worked beautifully.

So....it was only one fun day of testing, but the 9 will be back out with me when we get rid of more of this snow and cold. The utility of the handle is worth the 5 oz difference compared to the ATC (as well as just using a biner/munter). I like that it is not mechanical in nature, is rated for 8mm rope, and was inexpensive. I wish it was a little smaller, but it's not a barrier to incorporating it in my system. I did not climb or hang with it on my tether, as that seemed like too much metal/weight/bulk. I just used a regular friction hitch for that and then installed it when it was time to rappel. Easy to do.

TLDR: The figure 9 works pretty well as a belay device. Even for this old and fat novice.
Click to expand...
How's the 9 treating you? I have with held buying one so far.
 
MattMan81 said:
How's the 9 treating you? I have with held buying one so far.
Click to expand...
I'm over due to get back out and practice more with it. Fishing season kinda took over recently.

From the initial practice run I found it to be very user friendly. So simple it inspires a lot of confidence while using. Light, but a bit bulky compared to alternatives. It's basically a figure 8 that you don't have to put the wraps in to hold position. Just let the lever return to its natural spot and it holds you firmly. I backed it up with autoblock to LB loop below just to be sure.
 
Have any of you guys used the Fig9 this season? Mine is still sitting in my gear bin but after getting out of the tree last night with my MR I realized I had other options to descend and this miraculously was sitting where I could see it. Would like to hear good and bad or anything really.
 
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