Food Plot Info

[jsthntn]

I like these informational posts that are always here on SH. I’d like to start one if y’all are willing to share your thoughts.

There are so many different choices of crops out there to plant. Experienced planter or Newbie? What’s your go to crop to plant and why? Brand name or local Farm store? Fall annual plots(kill plots) or perennial? Plot size?? Spring, summer, fall?? Details on your climate/state for planting, near big hardwoods, clear cut edges, bedding thickets, huge crop fields, etc.

Now that I’ve asked the question I’ll give you my 2 cents:

I’m a semi experienced plot planter(IMO). I like farm store white and red clover mix as a perennial with a lil dash of oats (annual) but the red needs refreshed each year in my experience to get hit like I want it too. Usually 1-2 acres plots in a couple spots. Now for annual fall kill plots I think corn, 2-3 acre minimum and then the problem of ; if you can keep the dang bear out of it. I’ve planted turnips, brassicas, rape, radish, etc and it seemed to me that when the weather finally turned then they would wear it out and possibly wipe it out!! It never seemed to draw them in early and keep them consistent and wasn’t till mid to late November before they hit it. It seemed that I could predict the deer travel pattern better with Corn/Clover crops more than I could anything else. Maybe I’m just a simple hunter or lazy hunter or bad hunter but It’s just my thoughts. Any others have similar thoughts or something totally different they like?

 

[Sipsey]

I like these informational posts that are always here on SH. I’d like to start one if y’all are willing to share your thoughts.

There are so many different choices of crops out there to plant. Experienced planter or Newbie? What’s your go to crop to plant and why? Brand name or local Farm store? Fall annual plots(kill plots) or perennial? Plot size?? Spring, summer, fall?? Details on your climate/state for planting, near big hardwoods, clear cut edges, bedding thickets, huge crop fields, etc.

Now that I’ve asked the question I’ll give you my 2 cents:

I’m a semi experienced plot planter(IMO). I like farm store white and red clover mix as a perennial with a lil dash of oats (annual) but the red needs refreshed each year in my experience to get hit like I want it too. Usually 1-2 acres plots in a couple spots. Now for annual fall kill plots I think corn, 2-3 acre minimum and then the problem of ; if you can keep the dang bear out of it. I’ve planted turnips, brassicas, rape, radish, etc and it seemed to me that when the weather finally turned then they would wear it out and possibly wipe it out!! It never seemed to draw them in early and keep them consistent and wasn’t till mid to late November before they hit it. It seemed that I could predict the deer travel pattern better with Corn/Clover crops more than I could anything else. Maybe I’m just a simple hunter or lazy hunter or bad hunter but It’s just my thoughts. Any others have similar thoughts or something totally different they like?

My understanding is that the brassica family is high in glucose and doesn’t convert into sugars till it gets some cold weather, so its really a later season producer as you stated. The mixtures are no doubt the way to so, but what mix is the 64 dollar question. I do believe it begins with location and soil type. Another overlooked part of the equation is proper fertilization. Clovers and legumes don’t need nitrogen but the others in the mix do, so it can be tricky.

I’m just talked to a guy in the liquid fertilizer business, (30 years of making, developing), and he swears that application of liquid can make a major difference on most any of the crops. I’m getting a sample to try on a small field. He stated 80-90% of liquid is absorbed into the plant within two hours and that deer will stay longer eating in the field due to this. I’m still learning myself and figuring it all out is part of the fun.

 

[TNbowhunter]

I’m going to try my hand at one or two micro plots on the small permission property I hunt this year. Will have to do everything by hand (not even assistance of a 4-wheeler). It’s a little suburban property with zero agriculture within any accessible distance for deer, so I think it could be killer (pun intended).

My dad is suggesting that I just clear the leaves in the woods around my stands and spread wheat liberally (but not to the level of baiting) in September or October. I feel like there are probably better options, so this post is very timely. Anyone have suggestions for me? I’m in middle Tennessee, where early September temps can hit the 90’s and late December temps can dip into the teens or 20’s (very rarely colder).

 

[Jtaylor]

I’m going to try my hand at one or two micro plots on the small permission property I hunt this year. Will have to do everything by hand (not even assistance of a 4-wheeler). It’s a little suburban property with zero agriculture within any accessible distance for deer, so I think it could be killer (pun intended).

My dad is suggesting that I just clear the leaves in the woods around my stands and spread wheat liberally (but not to the level of baiting) in September or October. I feel like there are probably better options, so this post is very timely. Anyone have suggestions for me? I’m in middle Tennessee, where early September temps can hit the 90’s and late December temps can dip into the teens or 20’s (very rarely colder).

I think your dad was onto something. Wheat, rye and oats are good options. Most rye seed can be found at the big box stores really cheap. If you find a shade tolerant grass seed this can be beneficial too for drawing them in (think of deer browsing in the suburban back yards). Or clear the area with a rake to bare soil and use something like throw and grow. You can also learn what native browse they tend to gravitate towards during the time you'll be hunting the area and fertilize the browse already growing. Find an area that gets enough sunlight though if you're trying to plant a plot under a wooded canopy. You may have a local seed company that makes a food plot blend as well. Not a plug for Miller seed, but just an example of such blends made local to me: http://www.millerseed.com/seed/dfp

 

[BOWHUNTER14]

This year is my first year planting a food plot. And some of the things I have learned is buy local seed, don't waste money on the "buck on the bag" seed. I planted a mixture of Jumbo Ladino, Crimson, and Chicory and it is coming in great. Another thing I am coming to terms with is not to try and grow a perfect weed free plot. Deer are much more relaxed it seems in a plot that has some tall weeds around.

 

[neonomad]

I like these informational posts that are always here on SH. I’d like to start one if y’all are willing to share your thoughts.

There are so many different choices of crops out there to plant. Experienced planter or Newbie? What’s your go to crop to plant and why? Brand name or local Farm store? Fall annual plots(kill plots) or perennial? Plot size?? Spring, summer, fall?? Details on your climate/state for planting, near big hardwoods, clear cut edges, bedding thickets, huge crop fields, etc.

Now that I’ve asked the question I’ll give you my 2 cents:

I’m a semi experienced plot planter(IMO). I like farm store white and red clover mix as a perennial with a lil dash of oats (annual) but the red needs refreshed each year in my experience to get hit like I want it too. Usually 1-2 acres plots in a couple spots. Now for annual fall kill plots I think corn, 2-3 acre minimum and then the problem of ; if you can keep the dang bear out of it. I’ve planted turnips, brassicas, rape, radish, etc and it seemed to me that when the weather finally turned then they would wear it out and possibly wipe it out!! It never seemed to draw them in early and keep them consistent and wasn’t till mid to late November before they hit it. It seemed that I could predict the deer travel pattern better with Corn/Clover crops more than I could anything else. Maybe I’m just a simple hunter or lazy hunter or bad hunter but It’s just my thoughts. Any others have similar thoughts or something totally different they like?

I’d say I pretty much agree with you across the board, except that for whatever reason we had decent deer densities here and I do corn and soybean plots that seem to succeed at only like an acre and a half each. I know that’s a bit of an exception. I’m also experimenting with some other clovers like aberlasting, and the deer here also love chicory. In the summer they hit the clover and the green soybeans consistently. By late season they’re in the corn / dry beans /greens plots consistently. The guy who farms around me including about 14 acres of my property is switching from grains to alfalfa, so (1) I’ll probably dial back my clover efforts and (2) I’m wondering if my small grains plots are going to start getting wiped out quicker with less surrounding grains to absorb the attraction. I’ve also been moving more and more toward no till, similar to the Jeff Sturgis plan... fair amount of plots in buckwheat into the summer, broadcast the brassicas / rye / wheat / oats / crimson clover / etc into that in August and September and roll the buckwheat on top of it and spray. Never break soil just keep laying decomposing thatch layers down.

One thing I just ran into but didn’t anticipate is heading out to the foodplots last week and not wanting to take down these cover crops! I’ve got to knock down some great early summer habitat if I want to put corn and beans in this year (see pic).

I’m wondering if I could get away from the grains and get the same basic results with a little less money and effort... Jeff Sturgis seems to think so. will decide in the next week, it just feels good to know you have corn and beans out there.

Also, I’ve been trying to get some sections of the property going in native grasses / forbs / wildflowers. This too is a learning curve and for me has been a lot more challenging than foodplots.

 

[jsthntn]

I’ve had a few guys talk about clearing a small area in the woods and throwing in some seed has worked for them. I might have to try that. Anything specific? Clover oats wheat Rye ?

 

[Sipsey]

I’ve had a few guys talk about clearing a small area in the woods and throwing in some seed has worked for them. I might have to try that. Anything specific? Clover oats wheat Rye ?

That mix should work fine. Mix in some lime and fertilizer when you plant and plant it pretty thick. Something to consider, after the plants emerge apply some liquid fertilizer directly to your plot. Pelletized fertilizer needs a good ph to be used by the plants and most forrest soil is acidic. The liquid is absorbed directly through the leaves and stem and about 80-90% of it is absorbed within two hours of application. It can be reapplied periodically to make it more tasty to the deer.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

My plot history...
I've been doing small plots (up to 6 acres when all added together) for 20 years or so. I started out with Imperial Whitetail seeds (too expensive!), and I had no concept of weed identification, or weed control. My plots did okay, but they eventually got over taken over by grasses and petered-out.
Then I found the QDMA forum and got a little more serious. My plot strategy seems to be ever evolving. It's been a roller coaster ride.
I've mostly grown fall plots (a variety of clovers, chicory, brassicas, grains), but I have also grown a few nice summer plots (sunflowers, sunn hemp, buckwheat).
90% of my plots are within eyesight of my home, which offers great opportunities for viewing and studying deer. The locations of my plots make it almost impossible to walk from my house to stands without educating every deer in the neighborhood that they are being hunted. I usually drive even a couple hundred yards to park at areas with less disturbing access and then walk to stands. That strategy works well. I don't hunt over my plots. I believe, in the long run, it's counter productive and eventually just educates deer that they are being hunted.

Advice for new guys to plotting...
Get a soil test! That is rule #1. There is no sense in trying to grow something that is not suited to your soil chemistry. Mother Nature hates a vacuum so if what you try to grow is not suited to your chemistry, then Ma Nature will step in and grow something of her choice...which may be a nightmare species of weed.

Don't try to force a forage into an inappropriate site. Get the soil test, analyze it and then decide what will work.

Learn weed identification!!! Not all weeds are bad and some are actually great forage. My deer love ragweed. It's a "free" forage for me.
Other weeds need to be dealt with as soon as you see even a single plant. Some species can produce hundreds of thousands of seeds PER PLANT and some weeds spread by roots. learn which are desirable and which need eliminated and the best way to do it.
Some weeds require very specific approaches for fighting them. Glyphosate (Round up) is not always the best choice. Timing is critical with fighting weeds.

Certain weeds are not desirable until a certain stage of development. For instance, I get a lot of hairy galensoga in my plots. Early in the season, deer don't touch it and it seems like it will be a problem. But then, all of a sudden, something must change with the flavor or patability and then the deer pound it. I used to worry about the stuff, now I welcome it as free forage.

A lot of people misidentify sedges as grasses. Sedges are not grasses and need a different approach to fighting them.

The less tillage you can do, the better. Disturbing soil essentially releases the weed seed bank in the soil. Minimizing tillage also helps develop and preserve soil health and reduces erosion. I've gone to almost 100% "throw and mow" type plots. They work well enough for wildlife plots.

Always take into account a person's location or growing zone when asking for, or giving advice. Maine ain't Florida, so be a little careful about the advice you give or take.

Last tip...go to GreenCoverSeed.com and use their Smart Mix Calculator. It's a tremendous tool for designing plots.

 

[MrTumnus]

My plot history...
I've been doing small plots (up to 6 acres when all added together) for 20 years or so. I started out with Imperial Whitetail seeds (too expensive!), and I had no concept of weed identification, or weed control. My plots did okay, but they eventually got over taken over by grasses and petered-out.
Then I found the QDMA forum and got a little more serious. My plot strategy seems to be ever evolving. It's been a roller coaster ride.
I've mostly grown fall plots (a variety of clovers, chicory, brassicas, grains), but I have also grown a few nice summer plots (sunflowers, sunn hemp, buckwheat).
90% of my plots are within eyesight of my home, which offers great opportunities for viewing and studying deer. The locations of my plots make it almost impossible to walk from my house to stands without educating every deer in the neighborhood that they are being hunted. I usually drive even a couple hundred yards to park at areas with less disturbing access and then walk to stands. That strategy works well. I don't hunt over my plots. I believe, in the long run, it's counter productive and eventually just educates deer that they are being hunted.

Advice for new guys to plotting...
Get a soil test! That is rule #1. There is no sense in trying to grow something that is not suited to your soil chemistry. Mother Nature hates a vacuum so if what you try to grow is not suited to your chemistry, then Ma Nature will step in and grow something of her choice...which may be a nightmare species of weed.

Don't try to force a forage into an inappropriate site. Get the soil test, analyze it and then decide what will work.

Learn weed identification!!! Not all weeds are bad and some are actually great forage. My deer love ragweed. It's a "free" forage for me.
Other weeds need to be dealt with as soon as you see even a single plant. Some species can produce hundreds of thousands of seeds PER PLANT and some weeds spread by roots. learn which are desirable and which need eliminated and the best way to do it.
Some weeds require very specific approaches for fighting them. Glyphosate (Round up) is not always the best choice. Timing is critical with fighting weeds.

Certain weeds are not desirable until a certain stage of development. For instance, I get a lot of hairy galensoga in my plots. Early in the season, deer don't touch it and it seems like it will be a problem. But then, all of a sudden, something must change with the flavor or patability and then the deer pound it. I used to worry about the stuff, now I welcome it as free forage.

A lot of people misidentify sedges as grasses. Sedges are not grasses and need a different approach to fighting them.

The less tillage you can do, the better. Disturbing soil essentially releases the weed seed bank in the soil. Minimizing tillage also helps develop and preserve soil health and reduces erosion. I've gone to almost 100% "throw and mow" type plots. They work well enough for wildlife plots.

Always take into account a person's location or growing zone when asking for, or giving advice. Maine ain't Florida, so be a little careful about the advice you give or take.

Last tip...go to GreenCoverSeed.com and use their Smart Mix Calculator. It's a tremendous tool for designing plots.

great advice! 100% echo the get a soil test. Any county extension / ag office should be able to help you out. We send our samples to Clemson University Extension but pretty much any land grant university should have that service available.

@Allegheny Tom you talked about less tillage....and I completely agree there, just wondering if you have used any no-till drill type of equipment for your plots?

 

[Allegheny Tom]

great advice! 100% echo the get a soil test. Any county extension / ag office should be able to help you out. We send our samples to Clemson University Extension but pretty much any land grant university should have that service available.

@Allegheny Tom you talked about less tillage....and I completely agree there, just wondering if you have used any no-till drill type of equipment for your plots?

No, I don't own any no till planters. Sometimes I really wish I had one and other times I wish I had less equipment than I already have. The reality of food plotting is that stuff breaks, stuff needs fixed and maintained, and it takes time, money, and ability to use it all. (tools and how to use them)
I always wished I had hundreds of acres to "play". Maybe better described as acres to maintain...time and money.
Mother nature isnt always on our side either. Weeds, and weather are always a challenge.
But when you look out on your plots and see decent growth and critters of all sorts using what I've created, it is rewarding.
My best advice for new plotters...don't expect a pristine, weed free plot, and you don't need it to be weed free.
Don't expect that Booners will suddenly show up because you made a plot.
I really haven't seen much improvement in the size of the racks.
A nice clover plot sure looks nice, though.
I think that throw and mow type plots is what I want to do going forward.
Easy, cheap, and good enough.

 

[Sipsey]

Ive read about a technique that uses the mow and grow method also. It begins with mowing the weeds down and applying weed killer a few days later. After waiting a minimum of two weeks at the sign of a good rain the seeds and fertilizer/lime are broadcast into the dead thatch and run over with a 4 wheeler to pack down. It seems simple enough. Has anyone done this method?

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Ive read about a technique that uses the mow and grow method also. It begins with mowing the weeds down and applying weed killer a few days later. After waiting a minimum of two weeks at the sign of a good rain the seeds and fertilizer/lime are broadcast and run over with a 4 wheeler to pack down. It seems simple enough. Has anyone done this method?

I've been doing throw and mow for a few years now with acceptable results.
But the sequence that you described is not quite right.
1st, herbicide application needs more than a few days after mowing before you apply it. Weeds really should be sprayed BEFORE mowing, or, if already mowed, then weeds need to recover and start growing again before herbicide application.
Lime...takes months to work its way into the soil. It should be applied as soon as you can.
Fertilizer... when you apply it depends on the fertilizer. Nitrogen degrades when exposed. It should be applied right before at least a half inch of rain. Potassium and phosphorous take longer to effect the soil so apply it sooner.
No fertilizer can be utilized by plants if the pH is off. Neutral pH is needed. Do a soil test.

Herbicide selection and timing is a whole other subject. Most people use Roundup but there are others that target specific weeds (like grasses) and may be better suited to the need. Timing is important because most herbicides work best when weeds are younger and actively growing. If weeds are going to seed, its probably too late.
I like to allow weed growth to get knee high or so (depending on the species of weed), then apply the appropriate herbicide, and then broadcast seed into the dying weeds in a week or 2.
Broadcast seed, and then mow it to create thatch and also help ensure seed to soil contact better.
Hopefully, it will rain shortly afterward.
One good thing about minimal tillage is that the soil retains moisture better that it does after tillage.
Its amazing how fast soil dries out when it has been plowed or disced.
There are 2 other forums that have HUGE threads on throw and mow...
Deer Hunter Forum and Habitat Talk both have threads with thousands of posts on the subject.
TnM works. Lots of habitat guys are doing it with great results.

 

[Sipsey]

I've been doing throw and mow for a few years now with acceptable results.
But the sequence that you described is not quite right.
1st, herbicide application needs more than a few days after mowing before you apply it.
Lime...takes months to work its way into the soil. It should be applied as soon as you can.
Fertilizer... when you apply it depends on the fertilizer. Nitrogen degrades when exposed. It should be applied right before at least a half inch of rain. Potassium and phosphorous take longer to effect the soil so apply it sooner.
No fertilizer can be utilized by plants if the pH is off. Neutral pH is needed. Do a soil test.

Herbicide selection and timing is a whole other subject. Most people use Roundup but there are others that target specific weeds (like grasses) and may be better suited to the need. Timing is important because most herbicides work best when weeds are younger and actively growing. If weeds are going to seed, its probably too late.
I like to allow weed growth to get knee high or so (depending on the species of weed), then apply the appropriate herbicide, and then broadcast seed into the dying weeds in a week or 2.
Broadcast seed, and then mow it to create thatch and also help ensure seed to soil contact better.
Hopefully, it will rain shortly afterward.
One good thing about minimal tillage is that the soil retains moisture better that it does after tillage.
Its amazing how fast soil dries out when it has been plowed or disced.
There are 2 other forums that have HUGE threads on throw and mow...
Deer Hunter Forum and Habitat Talk both have threads with thousands of posts on the subject.
TnM works. Lots of habitat guys are doing it with great results.

Sounds like you’ve got it fined tuned. Ive read that some liquid fertilizers applied directly onto plants after initial growth can make up for improper soil ph.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Sounds like you’ve got it fined tuned. Ive read that some liquid fertilizers applied directly onto plants after initial growth can make up for improper soil ph.

I'm sure that I didn't convey everything clearly. Thats why I suggest checking out the threads on the other forums.
And farming is as much an art as it is a science.
I have little experience with liquid fertilizer but my impression is that it is not as effective as granular or organic (like manure).

 

[Sipsey]

I'm sure that I didn't convey everything clearly. Thats why I suggest checking out the threads on the other forums.
And farming is as much an art as it is a science.
I have little experience with liquid fertilizer but my impression is that it is not as effective as granular or organic (like manure).

I have only limited experience with liquids also, but I’m going to try it at my daughters place on a 3/4 acre field i plant every year. As you say there are general rules and principles in farming, but ones dirt and the weather seem to have the last say.


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[Arrowsmith1]

Here is a little cereal rye plot behind our house in Iowa. I got this in late last year.....early October. The deer grazed it all winter. The second picture was taken a couple of weeks ago.

Do I need to mow it down or let it go to seed?

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[jsthntn]

Here is a little cereal rye plot behind our house in Iowa. I got this in late last year.....early October. The deer grazed it all winter. The second picture was taken a couple of weeks ago.

Do I need to mow it down or let it go to seed?

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We just mowed all our plots of rye. I’m not sure if it will reseed itself or not. Maybe letting it go to seed then mowing it sown short will help reseed for fall? I dunno for sure. Hopefully someone on here has some experience with rye.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I've purposely let rye go to seed hoping that it would produce a volunteer crop. I got some, but not like a "new plot".
I guess it might matter if the rye was a solo crop and also what you plan to do with it this fall? How was the rye planted? Broadcast or drilled? What rate per acre? If there is also clover, is the rye so thick that it can chock the clover?
Rye can also make nice thatch for throw and mow type plantings.
Rye is great as a nurse crop and also for weed prevention (aleopathic qualities), but it isn't utilized much by deer as spring time progresses.
September is a great time to plant a rye/clover mix. The rye acts as a nurse for the developing clover (which won't do much until the following spring) and the following spring the rye can be mowed. The clover will probably do a little better if the rye is mowed, but it isn't mandatory if the plot is going to be left to be specifically clover.

 

[Arrowsmith1]

I've purposely let rye go to seed hoping that it would produce a volunteer crop. I got some, but not like a "new plot".
I guess it might matter if the rye was a solo crop and also what you plan to do with it this fall? How was the rye planted? Broadcast or drilled? What rate per acre? If there is also clover, is the rye so thick that it can chock the clover?
Rye can also make nice thatch for throw and mow type plantings.
Rye is great as a nurse crop and also for weed prevention (aleopathic qualities), but it isn't utilized much by deer as spring time progresses.
September is a great time to plant a rye/clover mix. The rye acts as a nurse for the developing clover (which won't do much until the following spring) and the following spring the rye can be mowed. The clover will probably do a little better if the rye is mowed, but it isn't mandatory if the plot is going to be left to be specifically clover.

I agree with everything you are saying. My neighbor had cattle in this area in August and September so I did not need to mow. I applied glyphosate. About a week later I lightly tilled up the thatch. I then broadcast the cereal rye seed and fertilizer. I did have a soil test and applied fertilizer accordingly. I broadcast a small 5 lb. bag of Imperial Whitetail Clover no till mix around the perimeter and got the exact result you mentioned. The clover mix didn't do much last fall but came on this spring. It is now buried in that tall rye.

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