Petrichor
Well-Known Member
My two takeaways are: dang I need to listen to that again and draw it out. And “not all naturalist are hunters but all good hunters are naturalist.” Great recommendation Tom.
-
The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
-
We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules
For the wind and odor guys
- Thread starter Allegheny Tom
- Start date
Seach back thru the Stickboys podcasts and listen to the other casts entitled "Woodsmanship". There are several excellent ones.
Pretty much any of them with Alan Altizer, or Nathan Killen are well worth the time to listen to.
Last edited:
Petrichor
Well-Known Member
Will do
MNFarmHunter
Well-Known Member
My understanding of wind patterns is that if you want to understand them, go and watch water flowing through a stream.
Even though the water is flowing the same direction, the water will ripple over the rough bottom, create eddy's from obstructions and flow against the current if directed that way. Wind is no different. It's just a fluid wanting to go in the same direction but is redirected due to varying terrain and obstructions.
Even though the water is flowing the same direction, the water will ripple over the rough bottom, create eddy's from obstructions and flow against the current if directed that way. Wind is no different. It's just a fluid wanting to go in the same direction but is redirected due to varying terrain and obstructions.
Just added those episodes to my playlist. I need long road trip to catch up on my podcasts, looking like about 25 hrs of podcasts that I’m behind on...
hokiehunter373
Well-Known Member
Curious why you're switching setup around the tree because of the wind switching? Maybe I'm missing something but that doesn't change where your wind is blowing in relation to where the deer are?
inexperience/ unsure which direction of travel they'd be coming from. i'd scouted on foot but ran out of time to go all the way down all the trails, i'd found good trails in multiple directions with sign, but don't have any cameras and wasnt sure which way deer would be coming from or if they even used those trails in AM hours at all. I set up thinking I was just going to see what happened and might as well have the travel routes that went with the wind on my "strong side" shot, so when the wind shifted and all other things were equal i shifted to favot the different trail ofshoot as my "primary" shooting direction. didnt end up seeing anything while i was in the tree, not sure how much not playing the wind correctly contributed to this and how much it was other factors.
Observing river current is definitely helpful in getting familiar with learning wind behavior, but water behavior is pretty basic as compared to the complexity of wind behavior. Surface wind is much more dynamic than river current. But I always say if you really want to learn water patterns, then learn how to paddle whitewater where it's critical to truly see all of the micro flows, eddies, current differentials, etc. If you aren't paying really close attention to how various currents interact, then you might just end up going for a long, miserable swim. It's amazing the difference in water behavior in just a few feet...could be the difference between catching an eddy and staying under boat control or ending up in a life threatening position.
Wind can be similar in that just a few yards can mean the difference between an odor bust and a taxidermy bill.
But wind is waaayyy more complicated than water.
smcchevy
Well-Known Member
Really enjoyed that podcast. I really like the woodsmanship topics.
Is this not the definition of “just hunt the wind”?
Somewhat. I think the real definition is getting down and shifting to a different tree to hunt the same spot. I did a lazier and likely less effective version.
My bad, still waiting on that sarcasm font... you are correct
It's even more enjoyable if you've heard the other Woodsmanship podcasts. You'll listen with " both ears" because you'll have a greater respect for the level of knowledge that Altizer and Killen have.
Oh yeah... now I know what that whooshing sound was as it sailed right over my head. Lol
smcchevy
Well-Known Member
Yes I downloaded the past half a dozen or so, listening to them in the evenings.
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2014
- Messages
- 700
Scent control is a matter of degree and the wind can be overcome and for the last 20 seasons I've paid zero attention to wind direction and do not get winded and for my first 34 season I paid 100% attention to wind, morning and afternoon thermals, and swirling winds caused by terrain features like whirlpools in a river. It all depends on how detail oriented a hunter is and of course I'm going to catch the proverbial anti scent control rhetoric from many hunters.
If anyone wants my scent control documents please request them at: deerejohn51@gmail.com
This is my old thought process vs. new since having a scent control regimen.
Just Play the Wind??????
Before scent reducing and eliminating products and garments hit the market “just play the wind” was the only number in town. Even today the vast majority of hunters claim there is no way to completely fool a deer’s nose and dismiss wind direction, basically meaning they believe scent control doesn’t work or doesn’t work well enough to negate the wind. To put it bluntly, that is absolutely not true.
You can fool a deer’s nose and I’ve done it dozens of times each season for the past 20 years. Please allow me to step back in time to one of my typical seasons before implementing a strict scent control routine.
During my spring tree selection and preparation process I would occasionally ignore the best tree and set-up a secondary tree better suited for the prevailing westerly fall winds. Secondary tree choices almost always put some runways or signposts out of range, or didn’t offer as good of concealment cover.
Before each hunt I’d check the wind direction then select a location from a host of prepared locations for that particular wind. During the hunt I’d remain hopeful the wind would remain constant and not change directions or swirl.
Swirling winds were a dilemma and were always an unknown entity that could ruin the best-laid plans especially when hunting undulating terrain features such as saddles, hills, ridges, or edges and corners of timber such as along perimeters of open fields while the foliage was on.
There were saddles and ridge locations that I simply quit hunting due to thermals and swirling winds. I also quit setting up new locations in such areas.
Prior to losing their leaves, tree foliage acts in a similar manner as a brick wall. Whether along perimeters of openings in the woods or a field’s edge, a constant direct wind will not totally penetrate through tree-line foliage and the portion of wind that deflects will follow the tree line and spook anything in that direction as well.
When deflected winds hit tree-lined corners the wind will again deflect creating swirling winds in all directions similar to a whirlpool at a river bend. Many times I would hear snorting in the timber without a sighting.
Entry routes were another issue as I would try to take routes that didn’t cross any runways I expected deer to use during that hunt. Deer have a sense of smell hundreds of times more sensitive to ours and even though I’d trapped fox and knew to wear knee high rubber boots, my faint scent ribbon was enough to alert mature deer.
During entries, brushing against vegetation with any portion of my body during was yet another issue because deer would easily smell me if they moved along the same route which is very common as they often take the path of least resistance which would be my entry route.
Non-targeted deer would appear from upwind and pass downwind and spook alarming every deer within hearing distance. A few times, a hot doe being pursued by a buck would spook and that hunt was abruptly over as well.
A thin blanket of human scent also went into the area downwind of my entry trail. Mature deer approaching from downwind of the scent line would, at very minimum, would be on a higher alert level than normal, and I’m quite certain that many deer simply smelled me and never appeared.
Lastly, with Michigan’s November 15th gun season opener falling dead center of peak rut it was not uncommon that some bow locations saved strictly for the pre and early rut phases would never get hunted because the wind direction necessary for them never occurred during that short time frame, or on my days off work.
To state that wind direction dictated where I hunted more than deer activity did, would be an understatement.
Those are all realities of having to hunt the wind that unfortunately rarely get mentioned on TV and in videos because media hunters hunt in managed areas where mature bucks don’t get targeted until they reach a specific age or antler criteria so they have a very high tolerance of human intrusions and odor. We don’t have the luxury of hunting in areas where there are lots of mature bucks and they are relatively simple to kill.
In heavy consequential hunting pressure areas survival instincts are immensely greater than those of their brethren in the lightly hunted and micro-managed areas the TV and video hunters hunt. When bucks are allowed to pass by hunters without consequence until they reach an age or antler criteria before being targeted, they have a much higher tolerance of human intrusions and odor. When there are no consequences during hunter encounters while growing to maturity, there’s little reason to fear future human encounters.
Now please allow me to describe a typical year while implementing a strict scent control routine wearing properly cared for ScentLok activated carbon lined garments.
During post-season scouting and tree selection process I choose and prepare the best tree for that particular location with no concern of wind direction, bringing all runways and signposts into play.
Having a general seasonal plan already in place, prior to each hunt I decide which tree to hunt based solely on seasonal and daily timing and current sightings and signposts.
Whether hunting saddles, hills, ridges, tree line edges and corners, or any types of terrain features, I pay no regard to wind direction and don’t care if during a hunt it changes or swirls.
Entry and exit routes are now dictated only by the likelihood of spooking deer during entries and exits due to being visually seen or heard.
I’m not concerned about non-targeted deer appearing from upwind and passing downwind or crossing my entry route and spooking due to human odor.
Lastly, during the all-important pre and early rut phases I can hunt my best locations without concern of wind direction or getting winded.
Current deer movements and proper seasonal and daily are the dictating factors for the locations I select and the wind direction has nothing to do with it. This may seem like a very bold statement, but the proof is in the pudding. After being winded many times each season for decades, I now have deer directly downwind almost every hunt without having them spook.
If anyone wants my scent control documents please request them at: deerejohn51@gmail.com
This is my old thought process vs. new since having a scent control regimen.
Just Play the Wind??????
Before scent reducing and eliminating products and garments hit the market “just play the wind” was the only number in town. Even today the vast majority of hunters claim there is no way to completely fool a deer’s nose and dismiss wind direction, basically meaning they believe scent control doesn’t work or doesn’t work well enough to negate the wind. To put it bluntly, that is absolutely not true.
You can fool a deer’s nose and I’ve done it dozens of times each season for the past 20 years. Please allow me to step back in time to one of my typical seasons before implementing a strict scent control routine.
During my spring tree selection and preparation process I would occasionally ignore the best tree and set-up a secondary tree better suited for the prevailing westerly fall winds. Secondary tree choices almost always put some runways or signposts out of range, or didn’t offer as good of concealment cover.
Before each hunt I’d check the wind direction then select a location from a host of prepared locations for that particular wind. During the hunt I’d remain hopeful the wind would remain constant and not change directions or swirl.
Swirling winds were a dilemma and were always an unknown entity that could ruin the best-laid plans especially when hunting undulating terrain features such as saddles, hills, ridges, or edges and corners of timber such as along perimeters of open fields while the foliage was on.
There were saddles and ridge locations that I simply quit hunting due to thermals and swirling winds. I also quit setting up new locations in such areas.
Prior to losing their leaves, tree foliage acts in a similar manner as a brick wall. Whether along perimeters of openings in the woods or a field’s edge, a constant direct wind will not totally penetrate through tree-line foliage and the portion of wind that deflects will follow the tree line and spook anything in that direction as well.
When deflected winds hit tree-lined corners the wind will again deflect creating swirling winds in all directions similar to a whirlpool at a river bend. Many times I would hear snorting in the timber without a sighting.
Entry routes were another issue as I would try to take routes that didn’t cross any runways I expected deer to use during that hunt. Deer have a sense of smell hundreds of times more sensitive to ours and even though I’d trapped fox and knew to wear knee high rubber boots, my faint scent ribbon was enough to alert mature deer.
During entries, brushing against vegetation with any portion of my body during was yet another issue because deer would easily smell me if they moved along the same route which is very common as they often take the path of least resistance which would be my entry route.
Non-targeted deer would appear from upwind and pass downwind and spook alarming every deer within hearing distance. A few times, a hot doe being pursued by a buck would spook and that hunt was abruptly over as well.
A thin blanket of human scent also went into the area downwind of my entry trail. Mature deer approaching from downwind of the scent line would, at very minimum, would be on a higher alert level than normal, and I’m quite certain that many deer simply smelled me and never appeared.
Lastly, with Michigan’s November 15th gun season opener falling dead center of peak rut it was not uncommon that some bow locations saved strictly for the pre and early rut phases would never get hunted because the wind direction necessary for them never occurred during that short time frame, or on my days off work.
To state that wind direction dictated where I hunted more than deer activity did, would be an understatement.
Those are all realities of having to hunt the wind that unfortunately rarely get mentioned on TV and in videos because media hunters hunt in managed areas where mature bucks don’t get targeted until they reach a specific age or antler criteria so they have a very high tolerance of human intrusions and odor. We don’t have the luxury of hunting in areas where there are lots of mature bucks and they are relatively simple to kill.
In heavy consequential hunting pressure areas survival instincts are immensely greater than those of their brethren in the lightly hunted and micro-managed areas the TV and video hunters hunt. When bucks are allowed to pass by hunters without consequence until they reach an age or antler criteria before being targeted, they have a much higher tolerance of human intrusions and odor. When there are no consequences during hunter encounters while growing to maturity, there’s little reason to fear future human encounters.
Now please allow me to describe a typical year while implementing a strict scent control routine wearing properly cared for ScentLok activated carbon lined garments.
During post-season scouting and tree selection process I choose and prepare the best tree for that particular location with no concern of wind direction, bringing all runways and signposts into play.
Having a general seasonal plan already in place, prior to each hunt I decide which tree to hunt based solely on seasonal and daily timing and current sightings and signposts.
Whether hunting saddles, hills, ridges, tree line edges and corners, or any types of terrain features, I pay no regard to wind direction and don’t care if during a hunt it changes or swirls.
Entry and exit routes are now dictated only by the likelihood of spooking deer during entries and exits due to being visually seen or heard.
I’m not concerned about non-targeted deer appearing from upwind and passing downwind or crossing my entry route and spooking due to human odor.
Lastly, during the all-important pre and early rut phases I can hunt my best locations without concern of wind direction or getting winded.
Current deer movements and proper seasonal and daily are the dictating factors for the locations I select and the wind direction has nothing to do with it. This may seem like a very bold statement, but the proof is in the pudding. After being winded many times each season for decades, I now have deer directly downwind almost every hunt without having them spook.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
- Messages
- 1,969
So how do you cover the scent that comes from your breath?
I can't answer for John but I fully believe that the type of breath odor that alarm deer is bacterial and it's produced in the mouth, not in the lungs. With diligent oral hygiene and avoiding certain foods during the season, mouth odor can be minimized to the point that it's not an issue...at least not for me.
Just brushing teeth will not accomplish the mission. Flossing, tongue scrub, rubber tip gum massager, SmartMouth rinse and hydrogen peroxide rinse will totally remove all bacteria causing plaque.
Eating apples while on stand also helps. Apples are strictly my lunch while hunting, nothing else. I like apples, but by the time the season is over, I've just about had my fill of them, but they are beneficial towards odor reduction. Apples do have deodorizing qualities in of themselves but they also induce the production of saliva. Saliva also reduces bacteria more so than a dry-mouth.
And finally, regardless of what specific human odor we are talking about, it's a fact that some of us just stink more than others. Breath, B.O., foot odor, skin oil, even acne varies widely from person to person. Maybe some guys just can't clear the bar on odor reduction while other can achieve a level of odor that just doesn't alarm deer as much as another guy.
I don't know for sure what the magic formula is or which detail is the one that works for me but I know 100% that I have waaaaayyyy fewer odor busts than I used to. There's a lot more to odor reduction than just showering, laundering your Scentlock, using tubs and spraying some liquid on your pants. It's an accumulation of details. The more details that are fully addressed, the better the results.
I can't say that I completely ignore the wind like John does, but I am thoroughly confident that what I'm doing has improved my situation.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
- Messages
- 1,969
Is there anybody that can defy a deer's nose other than John????????????
That's a vague statement, just like "fool a deer's nose". Arbitrary and not defined.