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Friction Hitches

Brocky said:
I thought it would be possible, finally got around to trying to tie a Soft Sticht with a loop.
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Back to the flow chart, an excellent idea, but maybe not the way to go. I agree it gets confusing, maybe another thread that shows friction hitches, how to tie them, and a brief comment, something like the 2TC video thread?
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I just want a simple….. picture with a how to tie and most importantly, a simpleton guide thats like: “this is the hitch or knot to use for this aspect of saddle hunting “etc.
 
John RB said:
@Brocky, a few weeks ago I was doing some side by side tying and testing of different friction hitches and increasing load above my body weight. Have you ever had the rope pop through the ring in the Sticht? Basically the cordage pulls it through and it kinda capsizes. I was using a small ring and 6mm cord on 8mm RescTech. By the way, I am not 100% sure which post above has your preferred ring Sticht version. Please advise or repost the photo or drawing. Thx.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
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Others have, dynamic load, a too large ring, too small hitch cord, and flexible rope are some of the causes. The wraps will grab if it happens, weighting the rope below it easily pulls it back through.

How to picture on page 20, post 390, there is a better way to tie the stopper in back, shown below and 2-3 pages back. Hitch tension adjustment on page 24, post 475.
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Brocky said:
My opinion is either the WLR, or Sticht will work for all situations here a friction hitch is wanted.
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I back up my mechanical prussic with a rope prussic on my tether to bridge hookup. The knot of the back up prussic oftentimes gets in the way of the biner to open and close it. Not a big deal but adds some fiddle usually when I don’t want it. What hitch should I use for that? What hitch would work in place of and instead of the mechanical device if I wanted to remove it completely? I just like how easily the ascender allows me to make adjustments.
 

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Move the bend closer to the Prusik, and include the other side of the loop in the knot to reduce possible snagging.

The Sticht, or WLR alone could replace the Ropeman for even easier adjustment, the back up would be an overhand on a bight below it, which could be used to daisy chain the rest of the tether.
 
woodsdog2 said:
I back up my mechanical prussic with a rope prussic on my tether to bridge hookup. The knot of the back up prussic oftentimes gets in the way of the biner to open and close it. Not a big deal but adds some fiddle usually when I don’t want it. What hitch should I use for that? What hitch would work in place of and instead of the mechanical device if I wanted to remove it completely? I just like how easily the ascender allows me to make adjustments.
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Go with the Sticht! Loving it so far, for every purpose that I've used it in. LB, tether, adjustable bridge...
 
gcr0003 said:
Weird rant but here it goes…

I’d be interested to hear what everyone describes as self tending hitch… this isn’t to you specifically Btaylor

Do you consider it to be a one handed operation where one pulls on the tag end to release and progress the hitch further up the rope?
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Yes, that's what I consider 'self-tending'. Perhaps in ignorance but that's how I understand the term to be used.

gcr0003 said:
Would you agree you still need to take your weight off of the hitch to tend it?
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Not sure I understand it... if the hitch is loaded there's nothing to tend. Tend out the slack. Do you mean break, as in rappel? I consider breaking and tending to refer to two distinct operations - tending to ascend, breaking to descend. I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

gcr0003 said:
If you are in fact needing to take weight off to take up the slack and self tend the hitch could you tell me what your other hand is doing during this time? Is it possible that that other hand is grabbing the tree, above the hitch, or onto the bridge or somewhere else to lift oneself up in order to give your other hand the ability to take up slack out of the hitch? Maybe not everytime but sometimes. Have you ever took the weight off your saddle by standing, pulled the tag end of your rope to self tend the hitch and caused your tether to fall because your self tending hitch wasnt self tending as easily as you thought?
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Generally holding on to my stick or the tree. I generally avoid holding my rope itself as I don't want to slip and inadvertently break my hitch. Sometimes I'll pull myself up by my hitch (or the carabiner on the hitch), then grab the trunk or whatever once I'm situated where I want to be. I have had my tether fall but I use a bungee to keep it tight to the tree so that's rarely an issue. Generally, I try to tend out slack as I climb; 'standing up' while pulling myself up with one hand and tending out slack with the other.

gcr0003 said:
My rant is one against self tending. This is a feature that is pointless to me. Wether you use a prusik or any other hitch, it is much easier to grab and pull oneself up at the same time from the tag end and push the hitch up with the free hand. In this way you maintain a tight connection to the tree at all times and have no worry about the tether falling down. In reverse it is easier to pull oneself slightly up to take weight of the hitch and use the free hand to adjust the hitch down as you slowly reweight the hitch controllably with the hand that raised you.
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I prefer self-tending hitches as I want to be able to operate them one handed. I haven't been impressed with the few (admittedly DIY) Prussic tenders I've tried. On the ground they were great but at height I needed two hands to tend, which meant I needed to set a LB to hold myself in position while fiddling with my Prussic. Very frustrating and felt unsafe. With one-handed operation I can tend slack out faster. Pushing the Prussic up hasn't worked for me because I generally don't have anything weighting down the tag end of my rope; when I've tried this I needed to step on my rope to hold it in place while I pushed the Prussic up, otherwise I'd just lift the rope up by my Prussic instead of advancing it. I dislike stepping on ropes as I want to avoid grinding grit into the fibers, and I want to avoid getting my feet tangled up.

Glad you've got a technique that works for you. I couldn't make it work for me and went a different route.
 
Iron_llama said:
Yes, that's what I consider 'self-tending'. Perhaps in ignorance but that's how I understand the term to be used.


Not sure I understand it... if the hitch is loaded there's nothing to tend. Tend out the slack. Do you mean break, as in rappel? I consider breaking and tending to refer to two distinct operations - tending to ascend, breaking to descend. I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.


Generally holding on to my stick or the tree. I generally avoid holding my rope itself as I don't want to slip and inadvertently break my hitch. Sometimes I'll pull myself up by my hitch (or the carabiner on the hitch), then grab the trunk or whatever once I'm situated where I want to be. I have had my tether fall but I use a bungee to keep it tight to the tree so that's rarely an issue. Generally, I try to tend out slack as I climb; 'standing up' while pulling myself up with one hand and tending out slack with the other.


I prefer self-tending hitches as I want to be able to operate them one handed. I haven't been impressed with the few (admittedly DIY) Prussic tenders I've tried. On the ground they were great but at height I needed two hands to tend, which meant I needed to set a LB to hold myself in position while fiddling with my Prussic. Very frustrating and felt unsafe. With one-handed operation I can tend slack out faster. Pushing the Prussic up hasn't worked for me because I generally don't have anything weighting down the tag end of my rope; when I've tried this I needed to step on my rope to hold it in place while I pushed the Prussic up, otherwise I'd just lift the rope up by my Prussic instead of advancing it. I dislike stepping on ropes as I want to avoid grinding grit into the fibers, and I want to avoid getting my feet tangled up.

Glad you've got a technique that works for you. I couldn't make it work for me and went a different route.
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You can’t hardly inadvertently break a prusik that’s for sure! Negative if you want to let out some slack for a shot but a positive if you don’t want to go for a ride inadvertently.

What hitch are you using that “self tends” easily with one hand after having full body weight on it? What rope and chord combo? How much do you weigh? Got a video of your self tending in use?

I’ll have to make a video of what I’m describing with the prusik.
 
gcr0003 said:
You can’t hardly inadvertently break a prusik that’s for sure! Negative if you want to let out some slack for a shot but a positive if you don’t want to go for a ride inadvertently.

What hitch are you using that “self tends” easily with one hand after having full body weight on it? What rope and chord combo? How much do you weigh? Got a video of your self tending in use?

I’ll have to make a video of what I’m describing with the prusik.
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This season I had the best success with a Longhorn Agile, but also used a soft Sticht, and started with a WLR. Geared up for the cold I was probably between two and too damn much. TRC on C-IV. 1-sticking and 2TC. I don't film myself, as a general rule; if I had a new idea I wanted to share I might do so via video but I haven't felt the need to document my daily activities.

1-sticking, I have my full weight on my hitch while making my move. I set my stick as high as I can and set my redundant tether (tending it tight) while I advance my main line as high as I can. This involves tending sufficient slack into it, then tending it back out as I actually climb. So I'm not usually tending my hitch after it sees my full weight, but I have done so. I'm not saying it tends without effort or like a mechanical device - if I climb more than one tree in a day I can feel it in my shoulder and bicep - but I'm also keeping my tether tight. Original Sticht (with ring and tube) tends easiest for me but I can attach the Longhorn Agile quickly at the tree, and without testing them against each other I'd put its tending as about on par with a soft Sticht.
 
Iron_llama said:
This season I had the best success with a Longhorn Agile, but also used a soft Sticht, and started with a WLR. Geared up for the cold I was probably between two and too damn much. TRC on C-IV. 1-sticking and 2TC. I don't film myself, as a general rule; if I had a new idea I wanted to share I might do so via video but I haven't felt the need to document my daily activities.

1-sticking, I have my full weight on my hitch while making my move. I set my stick as high as I can and set my redundant tether (tending it tight) while I advance my main line as high as I can. This involves tending sufficient slack into it, then tending it back out as I actually climb. So I'm not usually tending my hitch after it sees my full weight, but I have done so. I'm not saying it tends without effort or like a mechanical device - if I climb more than one tree in a day I can feel it in my shoulder and bicep - but I'm also keeping my tether tight. Original Sticht (with ring and tube) tends easiest for me but I can attach the Longhorn Agile quickly at the tree, and without testing them against each other I'd put its tending as about on par with a soft Sticht.
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Dang that’s too bad. I would have enjoyed watching you try to self tend your hitch after putting your full body weight on it. Thats my point exactly. No one is self tending a hitch on their main tether without some struggle or some muscle with or without a tender to aid. To me that is not easier than moving the hitch up with both hands. And if you’re going to move a hitch up with both hands because it’s easier, the prusik is the easiest.
 
gcr0003 said:
Dang that’s too bad. I would have enjoyed watching you try to self tend your hitch after putting your full body weight on it. Thats my point exactly. No one is self tending a hitch on their main tether without some struggle or some muscle with or without a tender to aid. To me that is not easier than moving the hitch up with both hands. And if you’re going to move a hitch up with both hands because it’s easier, the prusik is the easiest.
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You seem awfully invested in me climbing on a Prussic instead of another hitch. Tried it. Didn't like it. Using something else now.
 
Iron_llama said:
You seem awfully invested in me climbing on a Prussic instead of another hitch. Tried it. Didn't like it. Using something else now.
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You responded to my tending/prusik rant, not the other way around. I don’t care what anyone on here decides to use. I made the point that “self tending” is not very functional on a primary tether and you agreed.

This could be regardless of whether it’s a prusik or not. It was sort of two arguments that morphed into one I.e. a prusik is easy to adjust but you have to use two hands and take weight off. Other hitches are not easy adjust or “tend” one handed and you still have to take weight off. If you use two hands, holding the rope and pushing the hitch up with the other hand is easier then trying to tend it.
 
gcr0003 said:
You responded to my tending/prusik rant, not the other way around. I don’t care what anyone on here decides to use. I made the point that “self tending” is not very functional on a primary tether and you agreed.

This could be regardless of whether it’s a prusik or not. It was sort of two arguments that morphed into one I.e. a prusik is easy to adjust but you have to use two hands and take weight off. Other hitches are not easy adjust or “tend” one handed and you still have to take weight off. If you use two hands, holding the rope and pushing the hitch up with the other hand is easier then trying to tend it.
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I'm not sure I did agree. I enjoy one-handed operation of the friction hitch on my tether, I don't get that with a Prussic but I do with 'self-tending' hitches.
 
The Soft Sticht should be able to be adjusted to hand self tend fairly easily after being loaded, Separating the wraps from the lower part makes tending easier, but too much results in it not grabbing as reliably, I add an extra wrap to compensate. A new way of tying the stopper, bringing the ends trough the twist, is my preferred method, for now. Even the small cord is nearly effortless to hand tend.
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@white03 the Prusik can be made to hand tend, shorten rope, by retying like the top hitch below. Or keep it a loop and tie the Knut H hitch, shown loosely tied to hopefully see how it’s tied.
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