Full Redundant Backup for Entire Saddle - 0.8 lbs.

[bj139]

I was SRTing up a tree in the woods today coyote hunting. I didn't have my tether in place. I was just hanging from the SRT rope. I remembered this thread and thought I should hook up the tether. I was hanging with my full weight on the 8mm rope tether and 6mm prusik cord as a test. It was fine.
I was twisting around seeing if I could shoot in all directions and I could. I pointed the crossbow in all directions OK. The single attachment point on the RCH shouldn't be a problem. I am hanging from a Grigri and have the tag end tied down. How could that fail?

 

[Swingin' Free]

Hey, would this work if I put an eye bolt in my ceiling? How's the hip pinch?
My anniversary is coming up?
I mean asking for a friend....

 

[mhc223]

It's a second thing that needs to fail. Even if a treestand has a 1 in 4 chance of failing, it's still going to be more safe to use it PLUS a harness than just a harness. I never intended to compare it as a "safety system".

Tree stand doesnt have to fail, you can just walk off the end of it, fall, lose your balance etc....so the margin for it being safer then just a harness I think is very small. At that point your hanging there just like you would be with a saddle and no back up....but yes technically that situation would still need to happen for it to come to that comparison.

I agree with everyone else this is a great idea and the more people think about safety the better.

 

[bj139]

Hey, would this work if I put an eye bolt in my ceiling? How's the hip pinch?
My anniversary is coming up?
I mean asking for a friend....

I have a chin up bar that fastens over a doorway. I just loop the rope over the top near the side for strength and tie a bowline. I now have a testing rope for SRT or tether.

 

[Jwa13]

I dont see how a 10mm or similar diameter rope tether could break without warning. That being said if you use 2 tethers then you should not hook them both to your bridge of you really want to be safe. Additionally the way I see it it would be hard to fall more than a few inches if you are setup correctly.

 

[Murph4028]

Since you use a sit drag or fleece, you would need to use 2 rock climbing harnesses to get to the redundancy that he is suggesting.




Do rock climbers wear 2 harnesses? I have no problem with somebody backing up to feel safer, but did you have two harnesses on when you were sitting in a hang on? A tree stand isn't rated for 5,000lbs like climbing ropes/harnesses, so it isn't really keeping you safe. Plus you aren't strapped to it, so it doesn't help you if you fall out. Also, climbing the tree is the most dangerous part of the whole situation, but if you make it too hard to climb, nobody will use the system after a while. This makes it more dangerous.

I think tying the tail end of your tether to your saddle is a great idea. They are tested to climbing standards, so as long as you inspect it for wear, you are good to go.

Now for the sit draggers, I think they are nuts if they don't use a RCH, even if they do sew in a waist belt.

Great points

 

[MaxJac]

I had a feeling this thread was going to go this way.....

I didn't intend to say saddles are less safe than hangons. I can't really say. I was just saying I don't like relying on one system. With a hang on, 2 things have to fail for you to fall instead of 1.

I look at it this way:

Imagine yourself leaning in your harness. If any part fails you fall. So, I’ll just speak to my set up with the JX-3. Any of the following components could fail

• Tether itself.
• Prussik on tether
• Carabiner connecting tether to bridge – here it could be mechanical failure or user error, I fail to connect it properly.
• Bridge
• Carabiner connecting bridge to saddle – here it could be mechanical failure or user error, I fail to connect it properly.
• The connection points between saddle and bridge.
• The saddle itself. Again, mechanical or user error. I fail to connect leg loops or belt and lean over.

Any one of these fail, you’re falling. I agree the odds of any one of them failing is extremely remote. Let’s just say its 1 in a thousand. That’s really low. It’s very safe.

By adding a second system, you are installing another 1 in a thousand system. Both have to fail for you to fall. The odds of both failing are (mathematically) 1 in million.

So, you’ve increased your safety from 1 in a thousand to 1 in a million by giving up 0.8 lbs. It’s actually a very small increase in safety because you’re starting from such a safe starting point. But, it is an actual increase in safety. For me, I’m going to do it. I appreciate that most wont.

For the first time saddle hunting, yesterday I was 30 ft up in a pine tree. 10 more ft seem to make a difference in my personal comfort zone. I know I was that high, because the ends of my 66ft rappel rope barely touched the ground.

I was setting up just below a small branch using the LB as 2nd tether. I felt more comfortable to leave it there, so I have a double tether. Then, I set up the double rope to rappel, storing the loose ends in the backpack. I use an ATC and autoblock, hooking the ATC and carabiner into the bridge, the auto block in the lineman's belt loop on the saddle. Yes, that made it a triple hook up to the tree. Only to realize at that point, that all three connections were hooked up to the bridge and subsequently, the saddle. Then I started wondering if it's just me or if indeed it would be better to have an independent safety system, such as a RCH or HSS. Not for climbing, not for sitting or leaning, but with a loose tether, or the rappel rope connected to the RCH. As you said, increasing the safety to 1 in a million.

I have said it before, I rather loose some body weight than compromising safety by bypass safety equipment.

 

[dlist777]

For the first time saddle hunting, yesterday I was 30 ft up in a pine tree. 10 more ft seem to make a difference in my personal comfort zone. I know I was that high, because the ends of my 66ft rappel rope barely touched the ground.

I was setting up just below a small branch using the LB as 2nd tether. I felt more comfortable to leave it there, so I have a double tether. Then, I set up the double rope to rappel, storing the loose ends in the backpack. I use an ATC and autoblock, hooking the ATC and carabiner into the bridge, the auto block in the lineman's belt loop on the saddle. Yes, that made it a triple hook up to the tree. Only to realize at that point, that all three connections were hooked up to the bridge and subsequently, the saddle. Then I started wondering if it's just me or if indeed it would be better to have an independent safety system, such as a RCH or HSS. Not for climbing, not for sitting or leaning, but with a loose tether, or the rappel rope connected to the RCH. As you said, increasing the safety to 1 in a million.

I have said it before, I rather loose some body weight than compromising safety by bypass safety equipment.

Fwiw... I've been using this system all season (I changed out the rich to a different one....see post 46). It works fine. It isnt uncomfortable. I plan on continuing to use it

 

[bj139]

For the first time saddle hunting, yesterday I was 30 ft up in a pine tree. 10 more ft seem to make a difference in my personal comfort zone. I know I was that high, because the ends of my 66ft rappel rope barely touched the ground.

I was setting up just below a small branch using the LB as 2nd tether. I felt more comfortable to leave it there, so I have a double tether. Then, I set up the double rope to rappel, storing the loose ends in the backpack. I use an ATC and autoblock, hooking the ATC and carabiner into the bridge, the auto block in the lineman's belt loop on the saddle. Yes, that made it a triple hook up to the tree. Only to realize at that point, that all three connections were hooked up to the bridge and subsequently, the saddle. Then I started wondering if it's just me or if indeed it would be better to have an independent safety system, such as a RCH or HSS. Not for climbing, not for sitting or leaning, but with a loose tether, or the rappel rope connected to the RCH. As you said, increasing the safety to 1 in a million.

I have said it before, I rather loose some body weight than compromising safety by bypass safety equipment.

I have been wondering about my 1 bridge as well. I climb on one rope and add the tether I carry anyway. The saddle shouldn't fail all at once although the ropes could, maybe, unlikely.