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GriGri+ mishap….Viewer discretion advised

J

jcassell207

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Messages
84
Tonight while going up the tree, i had some type of fault/failure. I was about 10 feet and went to sit back to get my step…..when i sat back, i kept going. I used my hands to slow myself down, and the device engaged….

Only thing i can think is there was slack in the system causing the “catch” to become disengaged.

My question, anybody ever had this happen?

Luckily, my hands were the only thing that suffered…..
 

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Sorry to hear this. Some good rules of thumb:
1. Unless it's an emergency, always place our body weight via our bridge on a friction device/hitch slowly, to be sure it holds.
2. Make sure there's a backup for any moveable points of attachment, meaning a friction device or hitch.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
 
Puh, this could have turned out worse.

There is one certain option to hold belay-devices like the Grigri the wrong way.
Watch the YT-channel „Hard is easy“. The guy shows some common mistakes and explains why.
 
Last edited:
SNIPERBBB said:
Cant put slack on grigri or madrocks without having em backed up. They will slip down the rope till you get weight on them again
Click to expand...
Grigri or Lifeguard can slip without anything blocking the mechanism if the friction of the rope on the cam stays below the internal spring force. FRICTION IS NOT SPEED DEPENDENT.

Safeguard doesn't have internal spring so it will only slip if the cam is obstructed.

Since it is possible to have any device fail, there needs to be a knot tied on the brake strand few feet away when going hands free. Not a prusik as that can lead into situation where the prusik prevents the cam engagement and the device is tending the prusik. Just a good old overhand bight or alpine butterfly. Now it's phyiscally impossible to fall further than the knot. This is good practice no matter how "hands free safe" your chosen device is marketed to be.
 
Also what size rope? Mine will pass rope easily with small 8mm rope but it holds fine if I hold the rope to engage the cam, otherwise the small rope will just pass through without engaging. I don't have that issue with 9mm
 
samu said:
Grigri or Lifeguard can slip without anything blocking the mechanism if the friction of the rope on the cam stays below the internal spring force. FRICTION IS NOT SPEED DEPENDENT.

Safeguard doesn't have internal spring so it will only slip if the cam is obstructed.

Since it is possible to have any device fail, there needs to be a knot tied on the brake strand few feet away when going hands free. Not a prusik as that can lead into situation where the prusik prevents the cam engagement and the device is tending the prusik. Just a good old overhand bight or alpine butterfly. Now it's phyiscally impossible to fall further than the knot. This is good practice no matter how "hands free safe" your chosen device is marketed to be.
Click to expand...
That goes against the mfg warnings. You're better off tiring a swabish or similar hitch above the device.
 
jcassell207 said:
Tonight while going up the tree, i had some type of fault/failure. I was about 10 feet and went to sit back to get my step…..when i sat back, i kept going. I used my hands to slow myself down, and the device engaged….

Only thing i can think is there was slack in the system causing the “catch” to become disengaged.

My question, anybody ever had this happen?

Luckily, my hands were the only thing that suffered…..
Click to expand...
Those pics sound like bad words. Reinforces my decision to only climb and unclimb trees on hitches.
 
Did you possibly have a hand holding the rope above the device? The device needs to be weighted to cam over properly. If the weight has been removed by grabbing the rope above it the cam may not grab properly.
 
This is good one to help understand how these devices work.

It's frustrating that every time a discussion on mechanical devices comes up a certain crowd has to weigh in on friction hitches as if they have no downsides. Apples to apples, I don't believe friction hitches are inherently superior in any way, actually I believe them inferior, but on the orange side, I do acknowledge they generally require the end user to somewhat more deeply understand how and why they work, which is more than can be said of mechanical devices. The plug-and-play nature of mechanicals leads to most of the problems I see, nothing inherent in the device itself.
 
This could be several things. What diameter rope were you using? Also, the GriGri is NOT designed to brake hands-free. Petzl expressly prohibits using it this way. Always have your hand on the brake strand when you load it.


Better yet, back up with a friction hitch. You won’t always know when you’re going to load it (slip off step, stick kicks out, etc)
 
Gator said:
Also what size rope? Mine will pass rope easily with small 8mm rope but it holds fine if I hold the rope to engage the cam, otherwise the small rope will just pass through without engaging. I don't have that issue with 9mm
Click to expand...
Stiffness of the rope is much bigger factor. I have soft 10mm that passes through easier than some stiff 9mms.
SNIPERBBB said:
That goes against the mfg warnings. You're better off tiring a swabish or similar hitch above the device.
Click to expand...
Read my full reply. I have email from Madrock assuring using a blocking knot will not result in breaking of the device or the rope. Thus it is impossible to fall further than the knot.

What Madrock says they consider as "failure of the system" means is in such situation you jammed knot, not the cam of the device is holding your full weight. With static rope you also have a risk of increased load. Where the warning is crucially important is in canyoning, where people often rappel through waterfalls. If you have jammed device under a waterfall, you drown. It's their choise not to add nuance to the instructions. I disapprove but that's their choise.

Key thing to take away YOU ARE NOT BETTER OFF TYING FRICTION HITCHES ABOVE THE DEVICE. You create risk of two dangerous situations. One your hitch may jam and you need to go hands free to release yourself. Two you're making it very hard to control the speed of your rappel as you need to manipulate the friction hitch and the handle with one hand and it creates temptation to let go of the brake strand.

I try to condense, by tying a knot that can support your weight jammed against a hole that is the size of Safeguards rope channel, you prevent yourself falling past the knot despite Madrock considering the system not working as intended. You might need a prusik and a foot loop to release the device after, but this will never cause a risk of the rope or the device breaking at loads anyone would want to expose themselves to. Put 1 and 1 together. I have the full reply from Madrock posted somewhere over here too if you're interested. I you're climbing on slack hyperstatic materials you're doing something stupid on it's own but your body will break before Safeguard does.
 
The long and short of it is that jamming a friction hitch is better than free falling. Cross that bridge if you get to it if you insist. But if you follow the proper protocols and specs to begin with, you shouldn't need one. These devices flat work when used properly. You could certainly fall to your death on an improperly executed friction hitch, that doesn't make all friction hitches bad, does it? I think people just have more of an awareness that friction hitches are dependent on your ability to execute said friction hitch. They look at mechanical devices as an easy button (even some of the YT influencers treat them as such) and therein lies the trouble.
 
To reply to all questions asked, which hopefully covers what i can see/remember

Canyon elite 9mm is the rope i am running (debating on switching back to my old rope)

peacemaker636 said:
This could be several things. What diameter rope were you using? Also, the GriGri is NOT designed to brake hands-free. Petzl expressly prohibits using it this way. Always have your hand on the brake strand when you load it.


Better yet, back up with a friction hitch. You won’t always know when you’re going to load it (slip off step, stick kicks out, etc)
Click to expand...
I mean, i didn’t plan to use it as a brake “hands free” but i guess that’s what i get for falling

Somebody said the GriGri+ can be loaded 2 different ways? I followed to pictures, made sure my rope was in the correct way.

At the end of the day, i may be going back to carrying a few sticks in and using my lineman belt and tether at the top of the tree for a little while.

I was able to “reenact” the situation here at my house ground level. The GriGri is not like the MadRock meaning if you introduce slack, you will regret it instantly
 
samu said:
Stiffness of the rope is much bigger factor. I have soft 10mm that passes through easier than some stiff 9mms.

Read my full reply. I have email from Madrock assuring using a blocking knot will not result in breaking of the device or the rope. Thus it is impossible to fall further than the knot.

What Madrock says they consider as "failure of the system" means is in such situation you jammed knot, not the cam of the device is holding your full weight. With static rope you also have a risk of increased load. Where the warning is crucially important is in canyoning, where people often rappel through waterfalls. If you have jammed device under a waterfall, you drown. It's their choise not to add nuance to the instructions. I disapprove but that's their choise.

Key thing to take away YOU ARE NOT BETTER OFF TYING FRICTION HITCHES ABOVE THE DEVICE. You create risk of two dangerous situations. One your hitch may jam and you need to go hands free to release yourself. Two you're making it very hard to control the speed of your rappel as you need to manipulate the friction hitch and the handle with one hand and it creates temptation to let go of the brake strand.

I try to condense, by tying a knot that can support your weight jammed against a hole that is the size of Safeguards rope channel, you prevent yourself falling past the knot despite Madrock considering the system not working as intended. You might need a prusik and a foot loop to release the device after, but this will never cause a risk of the rope or the device breaking at loads anyone would want to expose themselves to. Put 1 and 1 together. I have the full reply from Madrock posted somewhere over here too if you're interested. I you're climbing on slack hyperstatic materials you're doing something stupid on it's own but your body will break before Safeguard does.
Click to expand...
The point of backing up a belay above is for ascending/working at height. Which is the issue in the OP.

In the case of the grigri, I can manage the hitch and grigri with the same hand if I want to. Easier to just remove the hitch when ready to come down
 
jcassell207 said:
To reply to all questions asked, which hopefully covers what i can see/remember

Canyon elite 9mm is the rope i am running (debating on switching back to my old rope)


I mean, i didn’t plan to use it as a brake “hands free” but i guess that’s what i get for falling

Somebody said the GriGri+ can be loaded 2 different ways? I followed to pictures, made sure my rope was in the correct way.

At the end of the day, i may be going back to carrying a few sticks in and using my lineman belt and tether at the top of the tree for a little while.

I was able to “reenact” the situation here at my house ground level. The GriGri is not like the MadRock meaning if you introduce slack, you will regret it instantly
Click to expand...
There's a toggle on the grigri that changes the mode.
 
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