Heavy arrow (525gr+) speed reference list

[Exhumis]

Hahahahaha

View attachment 62459

 

[woodsdog2]

That would be interesting as well, additional leverage or pulley system to assist the cam during the draw cycle. I wonder how it would effect the release though? Speaking of crossbows, they make some single bevels for crossbows, so you can turn your 20” bolt into a lean mean High FOC machine as well lol although it would be fun adjusting the scope for that new trajectory path lol

LOL, can you imagine the weight of the cams with that type of contraption??? LOL!!! Maybe titanium???

 

[slonstdy]

No but here’s a screen shot of the data

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Now who doesn't love spreadsheets?!
I know what I'll be doing at work tomorrow...

 

[kyler1945]

@kyler1945 and @woodsdog2 I agree it would be cool to design heavy specific bows or cam systems. But as I think this through, the bow would need a way to displace a lot of kinetic energy. Trad bow users were using higher FOC for centuries. They didn’t require special bows so much as an understanding of trajectories and also how to maximize momentum at impact.
Compound bows are extremely fast compared to trad bows and even recurves. Taller longer bows with more draw weight shoot faster (usually) in the trad world. In the compound world the cam system and riser height effect speed more than any thing else besides arrow weight. Let’s say they do create a bow specifically for heavy builds with higher FOC, would the bow also need to be 36”or longer to take some pressure off the limbs? Would the draw weight have to be a minimum of 70 or even 80 lbs to make sure that any arrow 550 g or higher can break the 300 FPS marker? And if they did that, what would the arrows have to be made of? Lol because the faster the arrow flies, the stiffer it would need to be with that much weight up front. I’m already stuck shooting 200 spine. I don’t think everyone would want to go to 250 or larger just to get good arrow flight, and I don’t think everyone would want to pull back 70 or 80 lbs to get that type of speed. Heck if they made an 80 lbs dw bow that would zip 650 or 700 grain arrows at 300fps or more I still wouldn’t buy it because at my draw length, I couldn’t get an arrow stiff enough to bare shaft.
Lol we would all be shooting titanium arrows @ $40 per arrow

I don't want these things. My feelings are pretty square - shoot the heaviest arrow you can at least 250fps. This falls around 450-550gr for 90% of people.

But, I see a nice money making opportunity, similar to saddle hunting interest 5 years ago. It's silly, it doesn't make any sense on a large scale. But that doesn't mean it can't make some smart person a bunch of money, while meeting a demand. The benefit to me personally, is another technology advancement vector. People looking in a direction they weren't previously will open up things no one expected.

Prediction - someone will figure out how to boil down the "heavy arrow/ashby" thing into something that can be monetized. They'll do it. Tens of thousands of dollars (maybe hundreds, not likely though) will be made. The fad will pass, the money spigot will dry up. But we'll be left with an interesting technology that maybe helps some small percentage of the people who funded it, because "game changer".

 

[Plebe]

No but here’s a screen shot of the data

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Was max weight at 250 fps your target? Or, a minimum speed limit? Or it just happened that you landed there on your heaviest rig?

I guess I’m interested in what your goal was in collecting this data and how it impacted your decision for your setup.

On a different thread I saw that you are using a 100gr insert and 100gr head.

I’m not too far off from your specs, so your data has my attention.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I don't want these things. My feelings are pretty square - shoot the heaviest arrow you can at least 250fps. This falls around 450-550gr for 90% of people.

But, I see a nice money making opportunity, similar to saddle hunting interest 5 years ago. It's silly, it doesn't make any sense on a large scale. But that doesn't mean it can't make some smart person a bunch of money, while meeting a demand. The benefit to me personally, is another technology advancement vector. People looking in a direction they weren't previously will open up things no one expected.

Prediction - someone will figure out how to boil down the "heavy arrow/ashby" thing into something that can be monetized. They'll do it. Tens of thousands of dollars (maybe hundreds, not likely though) will be made. The fad will pass, the money spigot will dry up. But we'll be left with an interesting technology that maybe helps some small percentage of the people who funded it, because "game changer".

It's funny that what is called "heavy arrow" today has been the norm for most of the history of archery. A general rule of traditional archery is to shoot an arrow that weighs about 10 to 12 grains per pound of draw weight. A 60-pound bow then would use an arrow of between 600 and 720 grains as normal. The rise of compound bows started an arms race to see what company could make the fastest bow. Speed is sexy and it sells bows. Since the average person isn't going to go from shooting 60 pounds this year to 70 the next and 80 the next the speed had to come from two places. One was bow efficiency and the other was light arrows. Maybe we will get to a point where the average bow off the shelf will easily throw a 650 grain arrow 300 feet a second with only a 50 pound draw weight...who knows.

Most guys want to buy a new bow, have the guy at the bow shot cut a dozen shafts, glue in some points and grab a pack of broadheads off the rack and be out the door. They will then shoot it two or three times before the season and say, "I'm good to go". It's just like all the guys I see at the range the week prior to rifle season hastily sighting in their rifle. Most of these guys also are dying to toss the bow aside as soon as any form of gun season rolls around.

Working out a high FOC arrow that will work for your bow takes time and money and has to be dialed in just like making a custom handload for your particular rifle. Most guys just want to grab a box of shells of the shelf, put three in a pie plate at 100 yards and call it good. I have several friends like this.

 

[Gator]

Was max weight at 250 fps your target? Or, a minimum speed limit? Or it just happened that you landed there on your heaviest rig?

I guess I’m interested in what your goal was in collecting this data and how it impacted your decision for your setup.

On a different thread I saw that you are using a 100gr insert and 100gr head.

I’m not too far off from your specs, so your data has my attention.

When I did those test I didn’t really have any goal in mind other than a comparison. I had a brand new bow and the arrows I shot previously are no longer sold. Since I was getting new arrows anyway that was the time to make a move if I was going to. Those were just the arrows I had available to me to test with at the time. The main thing I took from that day was how much quieter the bow was with a heavier arrow. I’m a big fan of readily available stuff so that led me to gold tip arrows and then I liked the upper 500 grains. My old setup shot 278 so I was familiar with the trajectory at that speed and wanted to stay around that speed. Not saying it’s the way to go, that’s just how I got there


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[Plebe]

When I did those test I didn’t really have any goal in mind other than a comparison. I had a brand new bow and the arrows I shot previously are no longer sold. Since I was getting new arrows anyway that was the time to make a move if I was going to. Those were just the arrows I had available to me to test with at the time. The main thing I took from that day was how much quieter the bow was with a heavier arrow. I’m a big fan of readily available stuff so that led me to gold tip arrows and then I liked the upper 500 grains. My old setup shot 278 so I was familiar with the trajectory at that speed and wanted to stay around that speed. Not saying it’s the way to go, that’s just how I got there


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Thanks for taking the time to share.

I’ve not had problems with my setup on deer but I’ve been getting to the end of my arrow stock and have a gift certificate to an archery shop for new arrows. So kind of where you were.

I’m planning on continuing with Gold Tip myself. But I’m going to mess around with some stuff before committing to a build for this season.

I’ve got some og XL German Kinetics and Alien V2 broadheads laying about that I should probably hunt with, and I’ve had that Alaska Bowhunting (now grizzlystick) field point test kit laying about for years.

Your data gives me some idea of what I want. Again, thanks for sharing.

 

[Weldabeast]

View attachment 62510

I can pull 70 easy enough standing in my backyard...but in an awkward position twisted up in the saddle I have to make exaggerated movement...I got arrows up to the job to get plenty of penetration and I stay 30 and under so don't see a point to set draw weight higher... Lowering the poundage helped during the arrow tuning process and my bow is really quiet..... Tell me why I want to pull 70 again?

 

[Exhumis]

I can pull 70 easy enough standing in my backyard...but in an awkward position twisted up in the saddle I have to make exaggerated movement...I got arrows up to the job to get plenty of penetration and I stay 30 and under so don't see a point to set draw weight higher... Lowering the poundage helped during the arrow tuning process and my bow is really quiet..... Tell me why I want to pull 70 again?

Just funnin man. Yours was so low it was funny and we knew it couldn’t be right. I don’t pull 70 from the saddle either, torques my back something awful

 

[Buckeye Bowhunter]

Bow: Elite Tempo 34
IBO rating 325 fps
60 pounds draw weight
29” draw length

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[zurr4013]

Rx5
80# limbs pulls at 82
DCA Custom Arrows - 560 TAW
Last year the Chrono hit 290 a couple times

 

[woodsdog2]

You should be able to draw your bow straight back, comfortably and without contortions by sitting in a chair and drawing it smoothly back. If you are struggling in any way, you are over bowed. This process can be exacerbated in cold weather after you've been in your saddle for hours. Remember this when you are deciding on your hunting bow draw weight. I know a lot of guys are pulling 80lbs no problem and that is excellent. I'm just making sure people aren't chasing something that will make their situation at the moment of truth worse simply to gain some FPS with heavy arrow builds. If you are uncomfortable or struggling throughout your draw process that does not make bowhunting pleasurable whatsoever. Adjust your peak draw weight so you are enjoying the process.

 

[Plebe]

You should be able to draw your bow straight back, comfortably and without contortions by sitting in a chair and drawing it smoothly back. If you are struggling in any way, you are over bowed. This process can be exacerbated in cold weather after you've been in your saddle for hours. Remember this when you are deciding on your hunting bow draw weight. I know a lot of guys are pulling 80lbs no problem and that is excellent. I'm just making sure people aren't chasing something that will make their situation at the moment of truth worse simply to gain some FPS with heavy arrow builds. If you are uncomfortable or struggling throughout your draw process that does not make bowhunting pleasurable whatsoever. Adjust your peak draw weight so you are enjoying the process.

On one of the old Drury Outdoors episodes a hunter attempted to drawn on a big buck and blew out his shoulder.

I don't know the medical history there, but was nonetheless convinced an easy draw has a lot of upside.

 

[woodsdog2]

On one of the old Drury Outdoors episodes a hunter attempted to drawn a big buck and blew out his shoulder.

I don't know the medical history there, but was nonetheless convinced an easy draw has a lot of upside.

Another method to use is to draw your bow bent at the waist. If you can smoothly and easily draw it back bent over (as if shooting from a tree stand) than you should be fine as well. I don't like that method because I think you should always have an arrow on your bow when you're drawing it (to prevent a dry fire) and aiming at the ground point blank with an arrow just seems potentially dangerous. Sitting in a chair and drawing back does the same thing and you can be aiming at an appropriate target and safe backstop.

 

[Weldabeast]

I have it to were if my bow arm is hanging at my side I can draw with the other arm, elbow straight up and over the head...