Heavy arrow build thread

[weekender21]

If you had a tech (some you assume knows what they're doing) tune u up and you're shooting bullet holes thru paper... then you screws on heavy head and you gotta tune for good arrow flight. Does mean your bow was wonky before and the heavies are bringing out quirks?

Not necessarily. More weight up front changes (weakens) your dynamic spine. You shouldn't be just adding weight to your current set up unless you know for a fact your arrow is stiff enough. That can be a dangerous mistake.

A stiff arrow is typically pretty easy to tune, weak spined arrows are potentially dangerous and usually very hard to tune.

 

[Weldabeast]

Not necessarily. More weight up front changes (weakens) your dynamic spine. You shouldn't be just adding weight to your current set up unless you know for a fact your arrow is stiff enough. That can be a dangerous mistake.

A stiff arrow is typically pretty easy to tune, weak spined arrows are potentially dangerous and usually very hard to tune.

And if your starting out stiff spine?

 

[weekender21]

And if your starting out stiff spine?

I'll run your numbers if you send me a PM with the details. I'd guess you've added enough weight up front that you're now underspined but that's a complete guess without knowing your entire set up (draw length, draw weight, arrow spine, point/insert weight).

But....just because you're shooting bullet holes through paper doesn't mean your bow is properly tuned. Should be close though.

 

[LilBit]

Do you all think it is worth it to get the better arrow straightness? like is the difference from .006 to .003 worth the extra $30 a dozen?

I like to buy the .006 straightness, spin them and cut the end(s) that have wobble in them. I cut mine down to 27". Helps take out some of the variance.

 

[Weldabeast]

I'll run your numbers if you send me a PM with the details. I'd guess you've added enough weight up front that you're now underspined but that's a complete guess without knowing your entire set up (draw length, draw weight, arrow spine, point/insert weight).

But....just because you're shooting bullet holes through paper doesn't mean your bow is properly tuned. Should be close though.

I am good with my stuff....just wondering. I don't know the correct answer but I would assume that each arrow weight will have its own specific setup to get the most efficient energy transfer...

 

[Gamover06]

Do you all think it is worth it to get the better arrow straightness? like is the difference from .006 to .003 worth the extra $30 a dozen?

Nope. If you cut off each end you will probably end up with a .003 or .001 arrow. Unless you are a world class shooter you will not be able to tell the difference in your group size.

 

[weekender21]

I am good with my stuff....just wondering. I don't know the correct answer but I would assume that each arrow weight will have its own specific setup to get the most efficient energy transfer...

If your initial arrow was set up with a standard industry arrow chart and you were "properly spined" to shoot 100 grain points, you're likely now underspined. It is definitely possible for you to shoot two drastically different weight arrows without changing your bows "tune" assuming the spine of your arrow supports it.

 

[weekender21]

Nope. If you cut off each end you will probably end up with a .003 or .001 arrow. Unless you are a world class shooter you will not be able to tell the difference in your group size.

I hate to admit it as I usually dump cash for the .001 shafts but this is correct. It would take an arrow with very poor run out for you to notice.

With that said, archery is a game of inches and in my opinion the small details matter. I buy the straitest shafts I can, cut both ends, index them with a very expensive tool then start the build process. But, that's full tilt and I enjoy the process. I'm also very competitive and don't that to lose 3D tournaments. This process gives me confidence which is priceless.

 

[GTel]

I've found that some arrows look perfectly straight on one end and a little off on the other end, so before you decide to cut both ends/either end, give it a spin and cut the end(s) that are most wobbly. And if one end is more wobbly than the other, there's nothing saying you can't cut more off one end than the other. But beware, the decals in your quiver won't line up and you won't look cool.

I've been testing with 32" arrows so if I get good results with them, I'll probably go for the .001 since I won't be cutting either end.

Sent from up in a tree

 

[AKMonkey]

Could you post a picture of the index nub of the nock?

The index nub is in different places on different nocks, but here are 2 examples, one from Bohning (orange nock, index on the lower right) and Easton (green, index on upper right)

 

[Red Beard]

The index nub is in different places on different nocks, but here are 2 examples, one from Bohning (orange nock, index on the lower right) and Easton (green, index on upper right)

Perfect! This is what I thought it was but wasn't exactly sure.

 

[hokiehunter373]

Currently building some new heavier arrows for next year:

Easton Hexx's at 26.5" and 7.9 GPI = 209.35 grains
Bushing = 3 grains
Easton x nock = 9 grains
6" white wrap = 6.8grains
3 3" Vanetec VMax's with a 2 degree RH helical = 6.4g/ea
275 grains will be on the tip

Not quite sure if I want to go with 75 ethics inserts and 200 cutthroats or 150 ethics inserts and an array of 125 heads that would include cutthroats, stinger buzzcuts, etc. Or maybe just do some of each. A golf bag as RF puts it.

Should put me just short of 525 TAW and 21% FOC. Just did bareshaft paper tuning to settle on tip weights for my first time this weekend and loved it. Once I can decide what I want to do with the weight up front, I'll get to gluing everything. Then I'll nock tune and fletch. I love the process and the confidence it gives me.

 

[ckschubach]

I'm just like the rest of you all - I love to tinker/ play/ learn new things. I watched the video with The Ranch Fairy and the THP guys and they initially sparked my interest. However, I believe we all have (2) options:

1. Shoot a heavier arrow and fixed broadhead - just in case we make a mistake on the shot and hit bone, that we feel confident the arrow will still do it's job. Some have even claimed this setup allows them to hold closer to the shoulder (heart shot) and they are not worried about hitting shoulder bone, again having confidence in the heavy arrow setup.
2. Shoot a light arrow and mechanical broadhead - shoot a fast, more straight/ accurate arrow, and shoot more back for a double lung. This setup is subject to a better chance at a pass thru since the only bones you might hit would be a rib. This also allows for a larger cutting blade that will insure a better blood trail.

Here is my experience and why I shoot what I do - I used to shoot a 400 grain arrow with a slick trick magnum head. I had success with this head, however I very seldom got a decent blood trail. I did manage to shoot a buck in the shoulder and got about 6 inches of penetration, broke the leg, and the deer ran approx 60 yds. Currently I have been shooting a 350 grain arrow with a slick trick raptor trick. I have had huge success with this setup, getting a complete pass thru on all the deer I have shot, while at the same time getting a great blood trail.

I think confidence is the big issue here. Shoot what you have confidence in and based on what your past experiences have been.

With that being said I will be adding a little extra weight to my setup to be closer to 400 grains, but still shooting a mechanical and aiming for the double lungs.

 

[Gamover06]

I'm just like the rest of you all - I love to tinker/ play/ learn new things. I watched the video with The Ranch Fairy and the THP guys and they initially sparked my interest. However, I believe we all have (2) options:

1. Shoot a heavier arrow and fixed broadhead - just in case we make a mistake on the shot and hit bone, that we feel confident the arrow will still do it's job. Some have even claimed this setup allows them to hold closer to the shoulder (heart shot) and they are not worried about hitting shoulder bone, again having confidence in the heavy arrow setup.
2. Shoot a light arrow and mechanical broadhead - shoot a fast, more straight/ accurate arrow, and shoot more back for a double lung. This setup is subject to a better chance at a pass thru since the only bones you might hit would be a rib. This also allows for a larger cutting blade that will insure a better blood trail.

Here is my experience and why I shoot what I do - I used to shoot a 400 grain arrow with a slick trick magnum head. I had success with this head, however I very seldom got a decent blood trail. I did manage to shoot a buck in the shoulder and got about 6 inches of penetration, broke the leg, and the deer ran approx 60 yds. Currently I have been shooting a 350 grain arrow with a slick trick raptor trick. I have had huge success with this setup, getting a complete pass thru on all the deer I have shot, while at the same time getting a great blood trail.

I think confidence is the big issue here. Shoot what you have confidence in and based on what your past experiences have been.

With that being said I will be adding a little extra weight to my setup to be closer to 400 grains, but still shooting a mechanical and aiming for the double lungs.

Heavy arrows with high FOC are not just to break bone and penetrate; they are easier to tune (if stiff), more efficient, quiet your bow, group better down range (FOC), will buck the wind better. Sorry but you saying that a light arrow is more accurate is just not true. Most people see tighter groups when they increase weight and go to a higher FOC.

You also make it sound like you only encounter pure broadside shots? What do you do on a quartering shot? Most people aim for opposite leg. If you aim to miss leg on a quartering deer have fun tracking.

Sooooo many people get caught up on why not just hit the pocket. People are not building heavy arrows with higher FOC just so they can out penetrate and or blow through shoulders. There are countless benefits to shooting a heavy arrow with higher FOC. I still aim in the exact same spot is did with a 400 grain arrow. Like Aron Snyder says S*&% happens. If you hunt long enough or shoot enough animals you will miss the pocket so please stop saying just hit where you aim and you will not have any issues. Your shooting a live animal and you will most likely encounter nerves which can make silly things happen.

I 100% agree shoot what you have confidence in. Personally I don't want to change your mind because it could change your confidence but I think that you have miss interpreted what a true heavy arrow set up does. Its not just about penetration....its a large part of it but once you dive in and start seeing there other benefits penetration is kind of a middle of the road though (for me personally). I saw my groups tighten, better accuracy in cross wind, and how crazy quiet my bow set up is awesome.

 

[Kurt]

Do you all think it is worth it to get the better arrow straightness? like is the difference from .006 to .003 worth the extra $30 a dozen?

I would say depending on the distances you shoot. There's a video posted on post #25

 

[ckschubach]

Heavy arrows with high FOC are not just to break bone and penetrate; they are easier to tune (if stiff), more efficient, quiet your bow, group better down range (FOC), will buck the wind better. Sorry but you saying that a light arrow is more accurate is just not true. Most people see tighter groups when they increase weight and go to a higher FOC.

You also make it sound like you only encounter pure broadside shots? What do you do on a quartering shot? Most people aim for opposite leg. If you aim to miss leg on a quartering deer have fun tracking.

Sooooo many people get caught up on why not just hit the pocket. People are not building heavy arrows with higher FOC just so they can out penetrate and or blow through shoulders. There are countless benefits to shooting a heavy arrow with higher FOC. I still aim in the exact same spot is did with a 400 grain arrow. Like Aron Snyder says S*&% happens. If you hunt long enough or shoot enough animals you will miss the pocket so please stop saying just hit where you aim and you will not have any issues. Your shooting a live animal and you will most likely encounter nerves which can make silly things happen.

I 100% agree shoot what you have confidence in. Personally I don't want to change your mind because it could change your confidence but I think that you have miss interpreted what a true heavy arrow set up does. Its not just about penetration....its a large part of it but once you dive in and start seeing there other benefits penetration is kind of a middle of the road though (for me personally). I saw my groups tighten, better accuracy in cross wind, and how crazy quiet my bow set up is awesome.

When I say more accurate, what I meant was in a hunting situation - the light, faster arrow doesn't loop quiet as bad as a heavier arrow, therefore giving a straighter path, missing limbs, etc.

I do agree though, they do make the bow quieter.

The only shots I take most of the time are broadside or quartering away. I've only taken one quartering too shot, but the deer had it's head down and I double lunged that deer. I personally would never take a quartering too shoulder shot with a bow, no matter what setup I had (well never say never, lol). I did shoot a buck once slightly quartering away and aimed at opposite leg - the arrow came out the opposite arm pit per say, complete pass thru.

Most people though, that talk about heavier setups, mention, "Oh I can blow thru bone, I'm not worried about that with my heavy setup"

Good stuff man - like I said, I'm willing to learn/ tinker and try anything

 

[MathewsMan7]

After cutting there is often one end that is still a little more crooked than the other. I put the nock on that end so that the vanes can more effectively correct any flight disturbances that the crookedness might introduce.

I listened to a podcast and Greg Poole said after he cuts his arrows (the same way you and I do), he always puts the "crooked" side up front as opposed to the back. He did give a reason for this, but I don't remember it well enough and I will not perpetuate fake news, but I remember it made a lot of sense when I heard it, so I plan on doing that this Spring/Summer when I build my arrows for next Fall. He's represented America at worlds, so I know he knows what he's talking about. I also know that he cares way more about the micro tuning side of things more than most hunters, however, if it benefits in tuning, seems like a no brainer to do. Something to try

 

[Allegheny Tom]

When I say more accurate, what I meant was in a hunting situation - the light, faster arrow doesn't loop quiet as bad as a heavier arrow, therefore giving a straighter path, missing limbs, etc.

I do agree though, they do make the bow quieter.

The only shots I take most of the time are broadside or quartering away. I've only taken one quartering too shot, but the deer had it's head down and I double lunged that deer. I personally would never take a quartering too shoulder shot with a bow, no matter what setup I had (well never say never, lol). I did shoot a buck once slightly quartering away and aimed at opposite leg - the arrow came out the opposite arm pit per say, complete pass thru.

Most people though, that talk about heavier setups, mention, "Oh I can blow thru bone, I'm not worried about that with my heavy setup"

Good stuff man - like I said, I'm willing to learn/ tinker and try anything

A few points...
Your arrow exited the armpit.
A hair different angle, or a slightly different position of the far leg (if the deer recoils to run, duck, etc) and your broadhead may have hit bone on the far side and created no exit.
Arrows don't always continue a straight path thru the animal, either. Even a rib can cause a deflection within the body.
And Ashby's #1 ingredient to penetration is broadhead and arrow durability. Expandables are not famous for holding up to abuse...even ribs can bend or break blades.

 

[emrah.oruc.7]

I just released a podcast with the Ranch Fairy Troy Fowler. Great discussion I had with him. I’m r you’re interested just search for “Bowhunting Soul” on most platforms.

Emrah

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AKMonkey]

I listened to a podcast and Greg Poole said after he cuts his arrows (the same way you and I do), he always puts the "crooked" side up front as opposed to the back. He did give a reason for this, but I don't remember it well enough and I will not perpetuate fake news, but I remember it made a lot of sense when I heard it, so I plan on doing that this Spring/Summer when I build my arrows for next Fall. He's represented America at worlds, so I know he knows what he's talking about. I also know that he cares way more about the micro tuning side of things more than most hunters, however, if it benefits in tuning, seems like a no brainer to do. Something to try

I wonder if the answer (to the question of which end to put forward) depends on whether you intend to shoot broadheads or not. Seems like small variances in straightness at the front end would be magnified by broadheads but probably not by target points. I'd like to listen to that podcast.