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Helium Aiders

bj139

bj139

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
5,377
Location
SE PA
I just made these and didn't test them yet but...
1) 44" tubular webbing
2) 6" of 5/8 inch old garden hose from back yard, split in half lengthwise.
3) Insert half hose in webbing to middle
4) Place webbing ends through HH steps and tie an over hand knot.
I guess if I miss these with my foot coming down, aiders are a no go for me.
With this I will go from 4 feet per stick to 5 feet per stick.
OVER
 
I just thought I could make double length steps and feed them through the same holes to get 6 feet per stick.
10 of them would get me to 14 feet per stick. :mask:
 
bj139 said:
I just made these and didn't test them yet but...
1) 44" tubular webbing
2) 6" of 5/8 inch old garden hose from back yard, split in half lengthwise.
3) Insert half hose in webbing to middle
4) Place webbing ends through HH steps and tie an over hand knot.
I guess if I miss these with my foot coming down, aiders are a no go for me.
With this I will go from 4 feet per stick to 5 feet per stick.
OVER
Click to expand...

You’re decreasing the amount of the step that is seeing the load by tying those in that way. The steps are designed to have your body weight on top of them.

Would you feel comfortable standing on the step if it was only 1/4” tall material? That’s about what you’re putting your body weight on with it tied that way.

I’d look to fasten the aiders in a more robust manner...
 
kyler1945 said:
You’re decreasing the amount of the step that is seeing the load by tying those in that way. The steps are designed to have your body weight on top of them.

Would you feel comfortable standing on the step if it was only 1/4” tall material? That’s about what you’re putting your body weight on with it tied that way.

I’d look to fasten the aiders in a more robust manner...
Click to expand...
Yes. I see your point at first glance. Would you feel comfortable with your body weight supported by an aluminum carabiner only 1/4" high? The hole is simply a miniature carabiner when reduced to it's simplest dimensions and it is supporting half my body weight since there are two holes. I do appreciate the discussion. I always ask questions like this. I will still think about your concern. Thanks. Please respond further.
 
i made tubular webbing aiders for my heliums also. each aider is a 22inch step, and i also tied mine on with an overhand knot. however, mine are tied in behind the stick and come out the front and hand down so they are a few inches away from the tree. I fed my webbing in through the slot just above where the steps fold in, and joined them in the back. i have no idea how to send pics here, or i would show you.

fold the bottom steps up as if you are packing them up. the first full slot in the main beam of the stick above where the steps fold in, that is where i fed the webbing through. one on each side, since there is a slot on the left and right of the stick. then tied the knot behind the stick. hopefully that sort of makes sense.
 
in your picture, one of those slots is covered by the yellow warning sticker on one of your sticks. i used that pair of slots.
 
I bought a 48" continuous loop of webbing and just loop it over the top and it rest on the tree bracket. Gives me a 24" step below my cutoff 24" sticks.
 
bj139 said:
Yes. I see your point at first glance. Would you feel comfortable with your body weight supported by an aluminum carabiner only 1/4" high? The hole is simply a miniature carabiner when reduced to it's simplest dimensions and it is supporting half my body weight since there are two holes. I do appreciate the discussion. I always ask questions like this. I will still think about your concern. Thanks. Please respond further.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but you missed Kyle's point significantly. Comparing 1/4" of a Helium step to an aluminum caribiner, is like comparing 1/4" amsteel blue to dental floss. It's called metallurgy and implied design.
 
Bwhana said:
Sorry, but you missed Kyle's point significantly. Comparing 1/4" of a Helium step to an aluminum caribiner, is like comparing 1/4" amsteel blue to dental floss. It's called metallurgy and implied design.
Click to expand...
I would guess 1/4" Amsteel is quite a bit stronger than dental floss, not even near the magnitude of step vs. caribiner. I sure wouldn't climb on aiders made of dental floss. Your analogy is like saying the sticks are made of spaghetti. It might be better to say 1/4" Amsteel vs. Predator rope. I was thinking about what Kyle earlier said and twisting of the step came to mind since the load is only aligned with the forward face of the step. I guess I better jump up and down on the aider at a 6 inch height.
One step, two step.
 
Gator said:
I bought a 48" continuous loop of webbing and just loop it over the top and it rest on the tree bracket. Gives me a 24" step below my cutoff 24" sticks.
Click to expand...
I tried that and moving it up with each step. When I realized a dropped aider could lead to difficulty getting down, I stopped that. These will be there unless they break.
 
bj139 said:
I would guess 1/4" Amsteel is quite a bit stronger than dental floss, not even near the magnitude of step vs. caribiner. I sure wouldn't climb on aiders made of dental floss. Your analogy is like saying the sticks are made of spaghetti. It might be better to say 1/4" Amsteel vs. Predator rope. I was thinking about what Kyle earlier said and twisting of the step came to mind since the load is only aligned with the forward face of the step. I guess I better jump up and down on the aider at a 6 inch height.
One step, two step.
Click to expand...

You're still missing the point. Here's the deal man. No one is making fun of you, or judging you. Simply put, you're compromising on safety in a significant way here. I don't care if you don't like me because I'm telling you this again, and not mincing words. I promise you that putting that tubular webbing on a sharp corner, and the strength of that thin strip of aluminum in the manner you have it loaded, is considerably more dangerous that it might appear to you.

Do what you want, but you are making a mistake continuing to climb at heights with it rigged that way.
 
I do like you. I don't know where you got that idea. Many people have posted about tubular webbing hanging over the top standoff on a 90 degree edge and no one said anything. I will be careful.
 
I just hung two sticks on the telephone pole across the street, the one step and two step aider sticks. i jumped down on them many times, both top and bottom aider rung steps. Nothing happened. On descending, I know the aider rungs are going to be in the middle of the stick. They rest on the ball of my foot. There were no broken rungs like I have seen reported on the Muddy sticks.
I remembered someone posting that removing the buckle and passing the strap behind the standing part attached to the button worked well. It did work well. I put a half hitch in it and no movement. I had to pull the stick upwards to remove the slack to get the half hitch undone. I am unhurt. I guess the Helium sticks must be made out of good aluminum. It may break in the future but I could say that about everything.
 
I haven’t used sticks since the goriila days(baby kong was my fav) but I would rather trust the aider resting on the bracket and draping over the steps to help prevent kick outs. Seems more stable with aider connection point closer to the tree. Side to side movement while using aider might cause the steps to twist and put excess pressure on the step bolts. The aiders do look really good tho, nice wide opening and flat.
 
I would not suggest not going thru the holes

It may never fail but there are stronger attachment methods

I don’t compare those holes to rated carabiners

I would loop behind over the stand off/steps or tie ur webbing around each complete step




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Have used aiders on my bottom helium for a couple of years, but tied around the post with the same knot I saw on DIYsportsman. Same with lone wolfs. There was a post somewhere that someone had put the webbing through the slots on the steps, and the stress actually broke the corner of the step ( the part that stops the step...the shoulder?). Maybe it was on the hunting beast. Just something to think about.
 
Thanks for all the concern. When I am standing in the aider each step carries half my weight , 1/2 to each step. 180/2=90 lbs.
If the steps cannot handle 90 lbs then I am in trouble.:frowning: I expect they can.
 
@bj139 , I'm not going to try to tell you what you should do. We all need to assume our own comfort level for the risk involved. I am however going to add to this thread as an agreement with @kyler1945 's stance that the way you've attached the aiders does pose some additional risk. The reason I'm doing so is so that others who may follow along this thread are aware of the additional risks and may consider a possible alternative.

Kyler1945 is absolutely correct that adding the aiders as you have done provides a weaker mount than other possible attachment methods. Will it fail? That depends on many factors inlcuding the climbers weight, the strength of the Heliums cast aluminum step, the geometry involved, etc. I haven't done the math and don't intend to) so I can't definitely say yes or no but I can say it is not as strong as the original step. First, the step section supporting the load has been effectively cut in half. In the picture below the red line is the section that would need to break for the step to fail under normal use. The blue line is the section that needs to fail as a aider threaded thru the step loads it in shear. Additionally the aider as you have shown it will result in an un-normal twisting of the step that will also result in additional stress on the step.

1563499064294.png

Another option for a fixed adier bottom aider is to wrap the aider around the bottom standoff. In the attached picture I have added a 24" sewn runner using an installed zip tie (ala @SloMo) to keep it open. It's twsited so it wraps over itself to grab the standoff and then I added a zip tie just to make sure it doesn't fall off on it own. 20190718_202612_resized.jpg

Again, we all need to independently assess our own acceptable risk levels and live with the consequenes of the choices we make but I want to make sure all are aware of the potential for additional risks in the method presented.
 
boyne bowhunter said:
@bj139 , I'm not going to try to tell you what you should do. We all need to assume our own comfort level for the risk involved. I am however going to add to this thread as an agreement with @kyler1945 's stance that the way you've attached the aiders does pose some additional risk. The reason I'm doing so is so that others who may follow along this thread are aware of the additional risks and may consider a possible alternative.

Kyler1945 is absolutely correct that adding the aiders as you have done provides a weaker mount than other possible attachment methods. Will it fail? That depends on many factors inlcuding the climbers weight, the strength of the Heliums cast aluminum step, the geometry involved, etc. I haven't done the math and don't intend to) so I can't definitely say yes or no but I can say it is not as strong as the original step. First, the step section supporting the load has been effectively cut in half. In the picture below the red line is the section that would need to break for the step to fail under normal use. The blue line is the section that needs to fail as a aider threaded thru the step loads it in shear. Additionally the aider as you have shown it will result in an un-normal twisting of the step that will also result in additional stress on the step.

View attachment 13750

Another option for a fixed adier bottom aider is to wrap the aider around the bottom standoff. In the attached picture I have added a 24" sewn runner using an installed zip tie (ala @SloMo) to keep it open. It's twsited so it wraps over itself to grab the standoff and then I added a zip tie just to make sure it doesn't fall off on it own. View attachment 13751

Again, we all need to independently assess our own acceptable risk levels and live with the consequenes of the choices we make but I want to make sure all are aware of the potential for additional risks in the method presented.
Click to expand...
I like the looks of that option. Can you refer me to any videos or threads with more detail on that?

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