help me out here with found sign

[Dmathews87]

scouted a new area and found massive rubs that are almost chest high on me and big tracks throughout this area (has small creeks cutting through with some muddy areas and then a larger creek with sand bars past that) the rubs seem to follow along the creeks as i have seen before. I walked all over this place and never found anything that i would say was a bedding area or anything, unless its on the private section right across the bigger creek. My question is, how do i take this sign right now post season? Obviously its late season sign so it wont help for early season coming up, but what would you be doing with it? what are you looking for next to go after this guy?

 

[Arrowsquirrel]

Large rubs usually are close to bedding or in a staging area in my experience. Just guessing I would think that those rubs were made end of October first of November before chasing started. That would be a time of year when the woods would probably have a lot more cover than now and he may be bedding in an area that looks bare now. I would probably come back and set a camera there in September or October. Preferable a cell camera and see what shows up. If you can find a scrape in the general area and don't want to set a cam I would come back and check it mid October once scrapes are opening up. Or even pick a tree and just go back and hunt it then if you don't have better options elsewhere.

 

[Dmathews87]

Large rubs usually are close to bedding or in a staging area in my experience. Just guessing I would think that those rubs were made end of October first of November before chasing started. That would be a time of year when the woods would probably have a lot more cover than now and he may be bedding in an area that looks bare now. I would probably come back and set a camera there in September or October. Preferable a cell camera and see what shows up. If you can find a scrape in the general area and don't want to set a cam I would come back and check it mid October once scrapes are opening up. Or even pick a tree and just go back and hunt it then if you don't have better options elsewhere.

for us down here im thinking he made it late Dec or late January as those are our rut dates. I didnt find scrapes in this particular area but i did find some nice ones not terribly far off. I like the cell cam idea, i may have to bite the bullet and get one, ive been running just standard cams forever.

 

[Topdog]

If it’s super open woods where your finding these rubs, no bedding cover, and I’m assuming public, that has average pressure, more than likely they were made at night, you learned that one exists today, a mature buck, if he’s still alive, next thing I would do… assuming you covered all the public already or land you can access legally, get on ONX and find the possible bedding, maybe that creek bottom with the rubs, if your lucky, is a transition piece of woods between 2 close bedding spots, then you mite have a chance at catching one of those nocturnal bucks making those rubs screwing up during the heat of the rut using that woods in daylight hours, otherwise it sounds like typical public land with little to no cover and buck sign that was made at night, which can be tough. The difference between those that can convert big buck sign into dead animals versus the latter is being able to understand the security cover mature deer seek, and how often they use it, which is a lot, taking the chance of setting up in a less pleasant spot, more cover, poor visibility, with usually overall less deer sightings, but on big sign.. is more productive than an open ridge covered with midnight rubs.. you need to find the cover!

 

[Dmathews87]

If it’s super open woods where your finding these rubs, no bedding cover, and I’m assuming public, that has average pressure, more than likely they were made at night, you learned that one exists today, a mature buck, if he’s still alive, next thing I would do… assuming you covered all the public already or land you can access legally, get on ONX and find the possible bedding, maybe that creek bottom with the rubs, if your lucky, is a transition piece of woods between 2 close bedding spots, then you mite have a chance at catching one of those nocturnal bucks making those rubs screwing up during the heat of the rut using that woods in daylight hours, otherwise it sounds like typical public land with little to no cover and buck sign that was made at night, which can be tough. The difference between those that can convert big buck sign into dead animals versus the latter is being able to understand the security cover mature deer seek, and how often they use it, which is a lot, taking the chance of setting up in a less pleasant spot, more cover, poor visibility, with usually overall less deer sightings, but on big sign.. is more productive than an open ridge covered with midnight rubs.. you need to find the cover!

it is public land...its a 1.2 mile trek back there and ive never seen another hunter back here where ive been...too many lazy guys here in S la lol. I def dont understand mature deer and how they use cover other than they just want to be in the thick stuff so feel free to school me more on the subject if you have anything to add. I have an area in mind i plan on checking next that may be the cover im looking for...

 

[Topdog]

it is public land...its a 1.2 mile trek back there and ive never seen another hunter back here where ive been...too many lazy guys here in S la lol. I def dont understand mature deer and how they use cover other than they just want to be in the thick stuff so feel free to school me more on the subject if you have anything to add. I have an area in mind i plan on checking next that may be the cover im looking for...

Well I like the sound of it already. To keep it simple imagine you just escaped Alcatraz somehow and now your running for your life, do you pick the open woods or crawl through a swamp, something thick and nasty, that’s the mentality of a mature buck in a normal, high pressured state on public during hunting season. Too many people set up in locations with better visibility that is more appealing to the human way of thinking about things, a spot where they can see more ground, maybe stare at several rubs from said tree, more shooting light..etc.. and sure probably see more deer, those are all the recipe to blister a 2.5 year old buck or cull some does. Locating mature bucks in their home range is the challenge in my opinion, that’s why few get killed, well fewer exist also but just locating one is the challenge, and finding his core area. I don’t even pay attention to buck sign in open country, once again in a normal high pressure state on public, we’re not talking about Kansas or Iowa here.. I look for big buck sign in terrain conducive of where a mature buck could live and survive, some thick nasty hole nobody would dare venture into for a half day sit carrying a climber. That’s what I look for, it can be 300 yards from a road, or several miles deep, but that’s what I look for, big, fresh, mature sign, and hopefully lots of it. It can be a challenge to find, but that’s most of the fun for me. I don’t even process it while scouting, I just keep going, marking it all on ONX, I have tons of free time at home from my recliner to process that stuff, when I’m out there with limited time I just keep hammering away, mark it all too, what mite seem insignificant in the woods may be gold once your finally home and begin to connect the dots. In a perfect world, what I like to find is a solid rub line, with big high rubs, leading to the edge of…once again a super thick spot, with a car hood size scrape, all alone on the edge of said cover, that’s like hitting the lottery. I don’t dive in and look for beds like some guys, I circle the whole piece, the thick spot, looking for more of that same scenario, exit and entrance routes, with big sign, and then I get out of there. Go home or to another piece of woods and start over. I sit down later on and try to decipher exactly what is going on from my ONX points, I don’t stare at a zoomed in screen, I back it off, sometimes a mile or more, look at the big picture, where else could he also be bedding? With any luck you mite find 2 or 3 of these core areas, if just one.. that’s ok too, but the more the better, I never settle for just one unless I have to. Once I’ve established what I believe to be a mature bucks core area I go in early, August.. monitor the primary entrance/exit routes from his primary bedding area with cell cams, hang them high in a tree so as not to alert him, and get the heck out, I mite pick a tree or 2 while there, but no heavy trimming or disturbance, I leave it all alone if I can, and I don’t set the cams super close either, maybe a 100-200 yards off those entrance/exit routes, and then I wait.. and just keep waiting, which is why I like multiple spots like this, the more the better, when the times right I move in, if I screw one spot up I go to the next, all the while I’m still monitoring several of these spots with cams. I never venture into my core mature buck target locations until the time is right, you will know when it’s right, be patient and let the cameras do the work, go in to early and all of that could be for nothing, if you don’t have patience like me and need to still hunt while waiting your target buck out, go someplace new, burn off some energy, do whatever, but don’t get jumpy and go into that target area too soon!

 

[Topdog]

When I first started hunting many years ago I wasted too much time hunting spots/areas where I knew I would see tons of deer hoping for a big one to be amongst them, it wasn’t until later in life when I was completely sick of killing the same old thing, to the point I didn’t even care if I saw a deer all season, that I started killing better deer, sit in the same old spot all the time seeing the same group of does and young bucks so you feel better about yourself like you accomplished something, or hunt an area that gets dark 30 minutes sooner because it’s so thick…for 1 week straight staring at a giant rub without a single sighting of one deer? I choose the second option because I know at least one exists there, that’s what it takes to kill mature deer consistently and know why you did it, it’s not for most, and I don’t blame them, it’s all in what you want from a deer season. Good luck!!

 

[Dmathews87]

When I first started hunting many years ago I wasted too much time hunting spots/areas where I knew I would see tons of deer hoping for a big one to be amongst them, it wasn’t until later in life when I was completely sick of killing the same old thing, to the point I didn’t even care if I saw a deer all season, that I started killing better deer, sit in the same old spot all the time seeing the same group of does and young bucks so you feel better about yourself like you accomplished something, or hunt an area that gets dark 30 minutes sooner because it’s so thick…for 1 week straight staring at a giant rub without a single sighting of one deer? I choose the second option because I know at least one exists there, that’s what it takes to kill mature deer consistently and know why you did it, it’s not for most, and I don’t blame them, it’s all in what you want from a deer season. Good luck!!

Well said and excellent info,thanks!

 

[Jammintree]

have you explored upstream yet? are all of these rubs on same side of trees or all they totally random? Is it possible that this sign is from bucks who are getting excited by smelling other deer from a long distance - who's scent is being pulled down into those creeks at night by sinking thermals?

 

[davidallenjoy]

Most creeks show heavy rub lines because most creeks serve as travel corridors and funnels. I don’t believe the sign you’re describing would be associated with bedding. I think it sounds very much associated with travel. The question with travel is always: where is he coming from, where is he going? My instinct would be to study the topo and try to discern likely bedding from that then put boots on the ground to confirm or deny those suspicions. I’m not a camera guy by any means but that might be a wise option here as you need it to confirm if he’s even still alive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dmathews87]

have you explored upstream yet? are all of these rubs on same side of trees or all they totally random? Is it possible that this sign is from bucks who are getting excited by smelling other deer from a long distance - who's scent is being pulled down into those creeks at night by sinking thermals?

I traced what I could without trespassing. I wouldn't say the rubs are all on the same side,but not totally random either,you can Def gauge how he traveled making em. Tracks I was seeing were fairly fresh so I'm hopeful he's still alive. Round 2 will hopefully get me more useful information.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

You can age rubs with a fair amount of certainty to within a week or two. I've got a lot of experience with it trapping beaver as the principles are the same. If the rub gets down past the cambrium of the tree and exposes the white inside its easy to age. Fresh rubs, the white will really stand out. As they get older, they start to go orange as the wood oxidizes. Rate of oxidation will depend on weather conditions and type of tree. Generally, white rubs/cuttings will stay white for about a month. At two months theyre fairly orange. Older than that they are tending towards brown. Eventually theyll go grey/blackish

 

[Dmathews87]

You can age rubs with a fair amount of certainty to within a week or two. I've got a lot of experience with it trapping beaver as the principles are the same. If the rub gets down past the cambrium of the tree and exposes the white inside its easy to age. Fresh rubs, the white will really stand out. As they get older, they start to go orange as the wood oxidizes. Rate of oxidation will depend on weather conditions and type of tree. Generally, white rubs/cuttings will stay white for about a month. At two months theyre fairly orange. Older than that they are tending towards brown. Eventually theyll go grey/blackish

good to know!

 

[Jammintree]

You can age rubs with a fair amount of certainty to within a week or two. I've got a lot of experience with it trapping beaver as the principles are the same. If the rub gets down past the cambrium of the tree and exposes the white inside its easy to age. Fresh rubs, the white will really stand out. As they get older, they start to go orange as the wood oxidizes. Rate of oxidation will depend on weather conditions and type of tree. Generally, white rubs/cuttings will stay white for about a month. At two months theyre fairly orange. Older than that they are tending towards brown. Eventually theyll go grey/blackish

And if the cambium is still green and there’s some sap oozing out and moist wood shavings under the tree ya best be on high alert cause he was just there.

 

[raisins]

If I didn't find bedding of interest (and even if I did), I would look at a slightly larger area both digitally and on foot to determine nearby travel corridors (topography, transition edges, trails) with the understanding that travel corridors and risk-tolerance of the buck will vary based upon the rut. I've done well to let large rubs more put a big gold star on the general area and then hunt my usual travel corridor approach. Some times the rubs are in a good travel area (for travel during shooting times) and sometimes not. I try to remember that a lot of sign is made at night, especially in more exposed areas. Here, the creeks are everywhere and usually don't funnel movement by acting as a bearer, since deer don't think much of crossing water a foot deep. Your creeks might hold a clue as to what the bucks might be doing. The buck I took this year didn't strictly walk a rub line but a transition in a topo saddle that had large rubs nearby.

 

[BTaylor]

Deer needs revolve around food, water, cover, breeding and pressure. Timing influences movement focus for bucks from food to breeding and does may or will separate from their family group when they are ready to breed. After that it is back to food and avoiding pressure. Obviously the rubs you found relate to the buck breeding cycle. The question I would have is related to the fresh tracks. Are they above average size and at least somewhat likely to have been from the buck that made the rubs? If so, then its possible he is using the same travel pattern during and outside the rut. I would suspect one direction from the spot you found is his core bedding area and the other direction is food and does. A cam or two would certainly help fill in the picture. If that is the case and your access is perpendicular to that travel, you may not really need to worry about whats at either end, you have the spot to kill him. It would be helpful if he is holding to a fairly tight line of travel through that spot and thats why I might put 2 or 3 cams in there to try to determine that, if you can.

 

[Dmathews87]

Deer needs revolve around food, water, cover, breeding and pressure. Timing influences movement focus for bucks from food to breeding and does may or will separate from their family group when they are ready to breed. After that it is back to food and avoiding pressure. Obviously the rubs you found relate to the buck breeding cycle. The question I would have is related to the fresh tracks. Are they above average size and at least somewhat likely to have been from the buck that made the rubs? If so, then its possible he is using the same travel pattern during and outside the rut. I would suspect one direction from the spot you found is his core bedding area and the other direction is food and does. A cam or two would certainly help fill in the picture. If that is the case and your access is perpendicular to that travel, you may not really need to worry about whats at either end, you have the spot to kill him. It would be helpful if he is holding to a fairly tight line of travel through that spot and thats why I might put 2 or 3 cams in there to try to determine that, if you can.

the tracks are larger than most i see in this area and just due to their proximity to these rubs i assume its the same buck. perpendicular access would be tricky but i will certainly re-assess that and see what i could do

 

[Dmathews87]

Good news is for another area on same wma in have located buck bedding and its pretty much where I suspected it would be. Back side of some swampy type stuff that transitions into hardwoods.hes bedded in some very thick swamp grass. I'm thinking now,find trails coming out and food sources close by as well as locating the does...am I right on that? ( sorry I'm a mature buck noob)