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How did it live?

Buckhole75 said:
...Avoid the temptation of sticking it so tight to the shoulder.About two ribs back on a broadside deer and it is over.
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Go back and read Rick's post #18.
He is right on. We can't expect that "2 ribs back" upon release will remain 2 ribs back upon impact. It's inevitable that some deer will move before the arrow arrives. Shoot at enough deer and you a guaranteed to eventually hit heavy bone.
And remember, the object isn't to KILL the deer, the object is to kill the deer and FIND the deer...gotta have a good blood trail which means we need an exit hole.
Actually, some of the best shots are the ones that hit the heavy bone of the far shoulder or leg and often result in no exit.
Shoot the heaviest, highest FOC arrow in which you can live with the trajectory.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 
Allegheny Tom said:
Go back and read Rick's post #18.
He is right on. We can't expect that "2 ribs back" upon release will remain 2 ribs back upon impact. It's inevitable that some deer will move before the arrow arrives. Shoot at enough deer and you a guaranteed to eventually hit heavy bone.
And remember, the object isn't to KILL the deer, the object is to kill the deer and FIND the deer...gotta have a good blood trail which means we need an exit hole.
Actually, some of the best shots are the ones that hit the heavy bone of the far shoulder or leg and often result in no exit.
Shoot the heaviest, highest FOC arrow in which you can live with the trajectory.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
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Yep,you might as well be set up for a worst case scenario hit. I have always shot fixed heads,but this year i am going for a heavy arrow and single bevel head. My arrow will be around 570 and i think the trajectory is not bad even for my 60# bow. I have not shot at a deer over 25 yds,so i think arrow drop will be a non issue.
 
200 or so bow kills and I have never thought i needed a 600 grain arrow.I promise you that in over 30 years of bow hunting i have had many deer that moved and the shots were less than ideal.And i still say that what you give up in trajectory form what you gain is not worth it.Sorry to disagree and not saying the approach you guys are taking wont work Just saying it is a bit much.I will keep pulling my litttle ol flimsy sticks out of the dirt after they let the air out of one.A 450gr arrow is gracious plenty with the right head
 
ricky racer said:
In my opinion, and keep in mind, this is only my opinion based on 45 years of bowhunting. The biggest issue with mechanical broadheads, and there are MANY issues, is the blades deploy at steep angles without much sweep. The steep angles of the blades don't allow them to slice but instead chop. The long sweep of most fixed blade heads allows them to slice by means of a mechanical advantage. The longer the sweep, the more mechanical advantage and the less energy required to slice it's way through an animal. A 3:1 ratio of length to width is about the perfect ratio. Slicing through tissue allows for very clean cuts of the blood vessels which increases bleeding.

Chopping through tissue tends to rip the blood vessels which promotes the clotting of blood at the ends of the damaged blood vessels shutting off blood loss before stopping it completely. Kind of like a farmer that gets his arm ripped of by a piece of equipment out in the back 40. He gets himself back to the farm house, calls 911 and waits for an ambulance to take him to a hospital to get his injuries attended to. If the same farmer had that arm sliced cleanly off by something razor sharp piece of equipment, he probably wouldn't make it 100 yards before dying due to blood loss.

You can test how the different blade angles work yourself. Next time you eat a steak, try cutting it by holding the knife at different angles when cutting through your steak. Try cutting your steak with the knife held at an angle similar to the angle of your mechanical broadhead blades. You'll see that steep (somewhere between 45 and 90 degrees) angles don't slice through your steak very well at all. You can force it through the steak with enough force but you'll end up tearing the steak, not slicing it. Now lower the angle to about a 30 degree angle and you'll find the knife slices easily through the steak.
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Thanks for taking the time to explain this in writing. Super interesting!
 
Buckhole75 said:
200 or so bow kills and I have never thought i needed a 600 grain arrow.I promise you that in over 30 years of bow hunting i have had many deer that moved and the shots were less than ideal.And i still say that what you give up in trajectory form what you gain is not worth it.Sorry to disagree and not saying the approach you guys are taking wont work Just saying it is a bit much.I will keep pulling my litttle ol flimsy sticks out of the dirt after they let the air out of one.A 450gr arrow is gracious plenty with the right head
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450 isn't that light of an arrow. The ones my bow shop set me up with last year weighed in at 330 grains total. I was shocked when i weighed those for the first time. Now that is a flimsy stick.
Everyone needs to decide for themselves what they are comfortable with. I practice out to 50 yds and my heavy arrows work just fine at that distance.
 
ricky racer said:
In my opinion, and keep in mind, this is only my opinion based on 45 years of bowhunting. The biggest issue with mechanical broadheads, and there are MANY issues, is the blades deploy at steep angles without much sweep. The steep angles of the blades don't allow them to slice but instead chop. The long sweep of most fixed blade heads allows them to slice by means of a mechanical advantage. The longer the sweep, the more mechanical advantage and the less energy required to slice it's way through an animal. A 3:1 ratio of length to width is about the perfect ratio. Slicing through tissue allows for very clean cuts of the blood vessels which increases bleeding.

Chopping through tissue tends to rip the blood vessels which promotes the clotting of blood at the ends of the damaged blood vessels shutting off blood loss before stopping it completely. Kind of like a farmer that gets his arm ripped of by a piece of equipment out in the back 40. He gets himself back to the farm house, calls 911 and waits for an ambulance to take him to a hospital to get his injuries attended to. If the same farmer had that arm sliced cleanly off by something razor sharp piece of equipment, he probably wouldn't make it 100 yards before dying due to blood loss.

You can test how the different blade angles work yourself. Next time you eat a steak, try cutting it by holding the knife at different angles when cutting through your steak. Try cutting your steak with the knife held at an angle similar to the angle of your mechanical broadhead blades. You'll see that steep (somewhere between 45 and 90 degrees) angles don't slice through your steak very well at all. You can force it through the steak with enough force but you'll end up tearing the steak, not slicing it. Now lower the angle to about a 30 degree angle and you'll find the knife slices easily through the steak.
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The heart from the deer I shot in October with a Rage broadhead. The cut was made by the broadhead, not the knife. It appears to be cut nicely and not torn. Just evidence. Worked OK, IMHO. Maybe torn on one side, cut cleanly on the other.



 
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Neat post. This gives me pause as I used these broadheads last year. I purchased them on camofire at an incredible price but relied on the dependability of the NAP brand ( in my experience). I had them save me on a poor shot this year and also punch through a shoulder at 20 yards.

I’d be curious about others experiences with these heads. After additional research I do see some complaints about unforgiving shot angles.
 
RatMe said:
I’d be curious about others experiences with these heads. After additional research I do see some complaints about unforgiving shot angles.
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Speaking of shot angles, mechanical broadheads can suffer if the broadhead doesn't hit your target at an exact right angle. On quartering shots, most mechanical heads will deploy the blade nearest the deer, as it makes contact, first which creates drag that can cause the nock end of the arrow start to tumble before penetration is complete greatly scrubbing energy from the arrow which can reduce penetration. I think that's why you see so many huge entry wounds on some deer from mechanical heads.

I'm not saying that mechanical's won't kill deer, that would be foolish it's just that in my opinion, they offer no advantage whatsoever over a good fixed blade head. Granted if you're sloppy with bow set up and arrow selection, they'll be easier to get arrows down range on a target but beyond that, I don't know why anyone would shoot them. Having never owned any mechanical's I've got to ask those that have owned them, how easy are the blades to remove and sharpen? I know many "replacement blades" aren't sharp enough to hunt with out of the package so I can only assume the mechanical's are no exception. Fixed blades are no problem.
 
I guess I’m in the minority here, but I have been shooting mechanicals exclusively for almost 25 years and have not had the horror stories that have been shared by others. As far as mechanical heads tearing as opposed to cutting, I would completely disagree. If I had to make an educated guess I would say that close to 90% of my deer over the years were complete pass-throughs, with large entry and exit holes and good blood trails. I have nothing at all against fixed blade broadheads. I hunted with them for years, but I appreciate the Fieldpoint accuracy combined with the larger cutting diameter that I enjoy with mechanicals.

For those that make the argument in favor of fixed blades due to the possibility of the deer moving unexpectedly, I would make just as strong an argument for mechanicals in that scenario. If a deer takes a half a step forward between the time of my release and the arrow arriving and I hit a couple of inches back I appreciate once again having a bigger wound channel with a greater chance of slicing an artery than a small diameter fixed blade. It’s basic math at that point. The larger the cutting diameter the greater the likelihood of cutting something vital.

I fully agree that on the rare occasion that I have hit a shoulder blade I would’ve likely been better off with a fixed blade broadhead. However, I’m confident that there is probably an equal number of times when the mechanical head probably bailed me out when my arrow did not hit where I intended due to my shooting at an alert deer that ducked and turned at the sound of the shot. The technology behind mechanical heads has improved significantly over the past 20 years, and while I completely understand why a lot of guys prefer fixed blade heads, mechanicals have worked very well for me.
 
I used to be on a committee for a controlled hunt and have been on literally hundreds of recoveries.I can tell you with loads of experience that a bad hit is a bad hit and mechanicals don't make recovery any easier.The key to recovering marginally hit deer is patience and woodsmanshop.We've recovered 100% of every gut shot deer as long as the deer wasn't pushed and most were found within 75 yards of where the hunter lost sight of the deer.The key is to back out and I mean don't even check your arrow because the chance of recovering a deer that was bumped just once goes down almost 100%.I've seen deer shot with just about every type of BH out there but since most people use mechanicals.most of the blood trails I was on were deer shot with big mechanicals.Close to 50% of the deer found the next day were still alive to some degree and it didn't matter how big the BH was.Interstingly,deer gut shot with mechanicals actually went further on average because deer deer know something is wrong and bail out of Dodge.Why anyone would use a BH that made a Shwacksound is beyond me.Remember,deer have been lost because of a lack of penetration but none have ever been lost because of too much penetration.
 
dougell said:
I used to be on a committee for a controlled hunt and have been on literally hundreds of recoveries.I can tell you with loads of experience that a bad hit is a bad hit and mechanicals don't make recovery any easier.The key to recovering marginally hit deer is patience and woodsmanshop.We've recovered 100% of every gut shot deer as long as the deer wasn't pushed and most were found within 75 yards of where the hunter lost sight of the deer.The key is to back out and I mean don't even check your arrow because the chance of recovering a deer that was bumped just once goes down almost 100%.I've seen deer shot with just about every type of BH out there but since most people use mechanicals.most of the blood trails I was on were deer shot with big mechanicals.Close to 50% of the deer found the next day were still alive to some degree and it didn't matter how big the BH was.Interstingly,deer gut shot with mechanicals actually went further on average because deer deer know something is wrong and bail out of Dodge.Why anyone would use a BH that made a Shwacksound is beyond me.Remember,deer have been lost because of a lack of penetration but none have ever been lost because of too much penetration.
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I would agree with you that it is important to give a marginally hit deer time to expire before beginning a tracking job. However, to suggest that a deer will run further after the shot as the result of the sound of a mechanical opening is laughable. No matter how quiet a compound bow is, it is still exponentially louder than the sound of any mechanical broadhead opening upon impact.
 
It's not laughable.I have the opportunity to shoot a lot of deer every year and have killed a couple dozen with various mechanicals over the years.There is no question that a deer reacts differently when you shoot them with a mechanical.
 
It makes sense that a deer would react more to a mechanical head because the likelyhood of wobble on impact because of the blades opening,especially if it is not a perfect broadside shot. A lot of energy is lost on that and in my opinion that would feel more like a punch than a cut.
I have no data to back up anything though.
 
I shot a deer once, years ago as it was walking past me. I took an almost broadside to maybe quartering slightly away shot as it walked past at about 12 yards. The deer took 2 or 3 quick steps then continued walking down the same trail it was traveling. It never even looked around and just walked out of sight. The area was a swamp so I couldn't see very far. I stood there in my treestand with my mouth open wondering how in the world I could have missed the shot. I climbed down from my stand and walked over to the arrow and found it covered with blood. That deer walked about 50 yards, laid down and died. It laid down, curled up like it just laid down to sleep. I'll never forget that. I was shooting a fixed blade head. That deer never knew it had been hit.
 
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