Interesting warning from Mad Rock Safeguard paperwork.

[CharlieTN]

I use my tether/rappel rope the same way. How do you minimize your slack? I feel like I have a bunch of slack before I am stable enough on the bottom steps of helium stick to move tether up. I also use a kong triangle and a Celtic stopper knot but i find the tether falls down causing more slack.


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I’m using a 30” helium with double aider and just move the tether up with each step up. It took me a bit to get where I felt comfortable moving the tether while standing on the aider step but I’m good with it now. I do also have my lineman’s belt attached as I move up the stick as well. Sure that adds some time, though not that much, but it certainly adds another layer of safety to the system.

To keep my tether from slipping I use a Nite-Ize gear tie that is tied in to the poachers knot and then just twist it around the running end of the rope after it passes through the quick-link. The trick is to wrap it at least twice right up against the quick-link. So far that seems to hold quite well.

 

[KYRanger]

The way I interpret this is that the Safeguard when used for Dynamic Belaying - a technique where the belaying person feeds rope to soften the fall of a climber during a fall, warns that If a knot or mechanical brake is attached to the Brake end of the rope, it could be pulled into the safeguard and break the Safeguard potentially causing the climber to fall. I think most of us use the safeguard on our tether in a static position. The autoblock or prusik is serving as a backup in the event of Safeguard failure. However, when rappelling with the Safeguard, I can see the potential for a similar situation to occur. I remove the autoblock backup for the rappel.

 

[bj139]

The safety message from Madrock says the rope must slide through Safeguard to absorb the shock. Prusiks can grab pretty tight and lock, so all the force on the Safeguard would be on the pivot which is only attached on one side. It probably cracks, locking the device in a hard fall. I hope it locks the device and does not pull the whole center section free or you could be on the ground, fast.

 

[Chopper070]

We do have to remember that we are doing two things here.

1. Using gear for a purpose it was not designed for. It was designed as a belay device for catching and lowering climbers safely whether lead or top-roping.
2. Using it in combination with rope it was not designed for. As a climbing belay device it was designed for use in conjunction with dynamic ropes that have a bit of a natural stretch built into them. We are using them with rope that is more static in nature, stiff with little stretch, which means more shock-load is transferred directly to the device.

In our favor is the fact that generally we have little to no slack in the system reducing the potential shock load and we are dealing with much shorter distances for the potential drop.

It still pays to be cautious, read the warnings, and take a hard look at what we are doing. At the end of the day, we all would like to go home safely to our families.

I’m a little late to the party here lol. But I have a friend who is a Mountain guide whom I consulted before stepping into this world of one sticking. He knew I planned on using a mad rock, and he gave me climbing rope which does have that stretch. I never thought about it until now, but it makes me wonder why the hunting industry is primarily offering static rope.

 

[CharlieTN]

I’m a little late to the party here lol. But I have a friend who is in Mountain guide that I consulted before stepping into this world of one sticking. He knew I planned on using a mad rock and he gave me climbing rope which does have that stretch. I never thought about it until now, but it makes me wonder why the hunting industry is primarily offering static rope.

I believe it’s two-fold, sort of, at least maybe
1. The industry latched onto static ropes from the beginning when they started embracing the concept of the rope tre-tether and lifelines and if has carried over to what we do. When this started, there weren’t a whole lot of options and static ropes just fit.
2. As for saddle hunting, there are lot of good ropes in the smaller diameters that have the needed strength, mostly canyoneering ropes and they’re static.

additional reasons: in the short distances we are working, a dynamic rope and system really wouldn’t do a whole lot to cushion any sort of a fall anyway. A dynamic rope for climbing is part of a larger system that allows for the cushioning.
Static ropes are typically more durable. You can also find static ropes by the foot, it’s very hard to find dynamic ropes that are sold in the shorter lengths we use.

Just some thoughts.

 

[JASmith]

Help me figure this out, I'm a bit confused. I don't use a Madrock. I use original gri gri or Beal birdie. I put autoblock above the devise. When I use ATC, figure 8, mammut 2.0. I place autoblock on the brake end? I'm I wrong doing this?

 

[CharlieTN]

Help me figure this out, I'm a bit confused. I don't use a Madrock. I use original gri gri or Beal birdie. I put autoblock above the devise. When I use ATC, figure 8, mammut 2.0. I place autoblock on the brake end? I'm I wrong doing this?

If you put the autoblock above the device, it is holding all of the weight when it is engaged. If it’s placed below the device, then it is holding a fraction of the weight, the same as your brake hand would be, making it easier to release when you need to continue to rappel.

With that said, Madrock specifically states in their instructions to not use any sort of back up friction hitch with their device. Remember it’s designed for belaying a rock climber, not what we’re doing with it. Their stated reason is that the friction hitch would prevent the natural slippage that would normally occur when catching a climber thus putting a shock load on the device. A falling climber can produce some brutal fall forces so the whole system is designed to absorb as much of that as possible. I’m not sure about what the other manufacturers recommend. I personally don’t see a need for any sort of a back up. Practice with it and become proficient with it.

 

[thedutchtouch]

i can understand this warning, but choose to ignore it. if i die/get hurt, that's on me, don't do waht i do. i use an autoblock attached to my right lineman loop, as well as the safeguard (previosuly tubular ATC) attached to a long bridge. i never have slack in my system (rappelling only), and it's physically impossible for the autoblock to get within a foot of the safeguard. if it isn't tended, it locks up and halts my descent with plenty of room to spare. it's likely 100% unnecessary to use this backup, but with my current experience level, makes me feel safer, even if it's going against the directions. i'm also using 8mm rope so out of spec in that regard as well (and one of the reasons i use a backup)