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Is it just me or are these saddle companies largely "silent" about fall testing?

S

StacheNGuns

New Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2020
Messages
12
New guy here. So I was considering buying a rock climbing harness to serve as my safety harness when using my hang on stand, but then I started investigating saddle hunting. The more research that I did, the more I wanted to try it. But there is a safety issue that I'm trying to get a clear answer on, and that is concerning "fall safety" of a saddle.

I get that the purpose of a saddle is to prevent a fall from happening in the first place, but I will appeal to Murphy's law, that if there is a chance of falling due to human error, someone is going to fall. And if that idiot happens to me, I want my saddle to be thoroughly "fall tested." The problem I had when investigating these saddle companies is that they were largely silent about any sort of "fall testing."

Now, of course, these guys fall tested these harnesses, but I'm having a heck of a time finding clear and concise info about such testing. Either I'm just not finding this valuable info or I'm assuming there is a liability issue here, and that these guys don't want to be responsible in the event that someone does fall wearing their saddle and the saddle fails to stop the fall. Thus, the company will say, "Well... the saddle was not designed to serve as a fall protection device in the first place."

To this end, if these saddles are fall rated and tested, then why aren't they advertising them as being an effective safety device that will stop a fall, in the event of a stupid mistake? And if they are thoroughly fall tested, why are there some guys still wearing a RC harness while saddle hunting?
 
I don’t think they don’t list that info on purpose. I believe it’s more people don’t ask so they don’t post it. Go to HSS website and try and find info about if they fall test their harnesses. It’s just not a question most hunters ask. Now if you email the various saddle companies and ask them I’d imagine they’ll provide you with data. Also, it comes down to liability. No company will stick their neck out like that because if Joe stock trader who’s hunted exactly zero days in his life wants to add to his Instagram account about how amazing he is goes out and buys a saddle, wears it wrong and breaks hit neck you bet he’s suing xyz company. Just how it works these days I’m afraid.
 
Exhumis said:
I don’t think they don’t list that info on purpose. I believe it’s more people don’t ask so they don’t post it. Go to HSS website and try and find info about if they fall test their harnesses. It’s just not a question most hunters ask. Now if you email the various saddle companies and ask them I’d imagine they’ll provide you with data. Also, it comes down to liability. No company will stick their neck out like that because if Joe stock trader who’s hunted exactly zero days in his life wants to add to his Instagram account about how amazing he is goes out and buys a saddle, wears it wrong and breaks hit neck you bet he’s suing xyz company. Just how it works these days I’m afraid.
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Just makes me wonder if there is a company that is not doing their due diligence when it comes to fall testing.

I will give props to Tethrd as I did find a YouTube video on their fall testing, which inspired buyers confidence in myself regarding their company.
 
I know the tethrd saddles and platforms were tested at an independent lab that does tma testing. Their saddles can’t be certified as a tma fall restraints because they don’t have shoulder straps. New tribe has been building harnesses long enough that I would trust them. The rest of the manufacturers I’m not sure of but I’m sure if you contacted them they would share that information.
 
They are static system and ARE NOT designed or built as fall arrest systems.

They are strong, and some are TMA tested/rated for weight ratings.

Now I believe that most would stop a fall, but it will be ROUGH as there is no stretch/give built into these systems.

I’ve also heard that Amsteel, while strong as hell, is horrible with shock loading because it is so static/zero stretch


Spencer

Had to edit, are not fall arrest systems, kinda the key point here...
 
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EricS said:
I know the tethrd saddles and platforms were tested at an independent lab that does tma testing. Their saddles can’t be certified as a tma fall restraints because they don’t have shoulder straps. New tribe has been building harnesses long enough that I would trust them. The rest of the manufacturers I’m not sure of but I’m sure if you contacted them they would share that information.
Click to expand...
So do you think if a saddle company slapped some lightweight shoulder straps on a saddle they could get it TMA certified and into a big box store?
 
Most saddle makers are doing some form of strength testing, but not specifically a fall test. I have said this before and will continue, but I want my equipment to fail just a little before it reaches the point my spine snaps. Your spine will be gone way before the beloved 24kN the safety police like to quote here and I would rather take my chances on the fall to the ground than become paralyzed.

For TMA testing, I quote their own words (and if anyone cares to use the search feature, this topic has already been beat to death too, but I know you won't, so here we go :) - "Treestand Manufacturer’s Association (TMA), industry standards for treestands and treestand harnesses were developed and approved by members of the association. The association’s bylaws require that members in the Manufacturing Class submit products to a third party testing firm and certified by that testing firm to meet or exceed industry standards recognized by TMA. TMA members have voted and approved eleven (11) Treestand Manufacturing Standards (TMS)".

This translates in redneck to the members made their own rules, or in other words, the inmates are running the asylum. They are tied now to the ASTM, which has some merit, but like any regulations, they can be manipulated by keeping either too narrow or too wide a focus. Saddles aside, there are many treestands on the market today that are not TMA affiliated that are stronger and better than many that are, so TMA doesn't equal quality nor absolute safety.

The best policy for anyone too concerned is to keep your a$$ on the ground and then you only have to worry about tripping and falling on a beaver cut sapling and impaling yourself!
 
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EricS said:
I know the tethrd saddles and platforms were tested at an independent lab that does tma testing. Their saddles can’t be certified as a tma fall restraints because they don’t have shoulder straps. New tribe has been building harnesses long enough that I would trust them. The rest of the manufacturers I’m not sure of but I’m sure if you contacted them they would share that information.
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Trophyline does the same. 3rd party testing at an independent lab that does TMA testing. But since there is no certification, it’s hard to put up in the website ?


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Jefferson10940 said:
Trophyline does the same. 3rd party testing at an independent lab that does TMA testing. But since there is no certification, it’s hard to put up in the website ?


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Good to know about trophyline. And yes no one is going to advertise “almost meets tma standards”. Especially when you see the cheap free harnesses that come with treestands and are certified.
 
The saddles are the least of your worries.
Here's what you should worry about.
1.) Sub par, poorly engineered, poorly tested climbing sticks and platforms.
2.) Unnecessary modifications you will read about on this forum.
3.) Ridiculous climbing and decending techniques that special forces, elite mountain climbers use.
4.) Bad advice about all of the above topics.


Get a good saddle and practice safe climbing and hook up techniques until you can do it with your eyes closed, in the dark, in freezing cold and drizzle...
 
Sniper4hire said:
The saddles are the least of your worries.
Here's what you should worry about.
1.) Sub par, poorly engineered, poorly tested climbing sticks and platforms.
2.) Unnecessary modifications you will read about on this forum.
3.) Ridiculous climbing and decending techniques that special forces, elite mountain climbers use.
4.) Bad advice about all of the above topics.


Get a good saddle and practice safe climbing and hook up techniques until you can do it with your eyes closed, in the dark, in freezing cold and drizzle...
Click to expand...
I’ve got a major problem with number 3. Let’s be fair, An elite mountain climber would free climb before using some of the stuff we come up with.
 
Of all the things I can worry about, a tree saddle failure is the least of these, none of us worry about hopping into an automobile and driving in rain or traffic because we spend so much time driving we feel comfortable and have the perception of control. I have been saddle hunting for so long I am much more comfortable hunting from a saddle. Practice and familiarity makes for a much safer hunt if complacency is not a factor. As far as some 3rd party testing facility testing the saddle to tell me it is ok to fall in, I could care less. During a fall if you are not paying attention you can just as easily hang yourself with your tether or rope or impale yourself with screw in steps. I guess the point to my statement is practice so you don’t fall!
 
Great thread. This day and age it's a joke. BWHANA and Sniper4Hire great points and thanks. There are so many products out there that do not require 3rd party testing but when there is, it's just like the Pharm and other larger industries, they fund the tests themselves and use their buddies as the 3rd parties...essentially buying the results they want while they test things on 10s and 10s and 10s of people and it's ready for the masses. Great $$making model with plenty of casualties. A perfect world for me would be a world where I would never have to see,hear,taste,touch,feel another marketing or advertising scheme again. I read this book a while back that said magic and sorcery never disappeared. They only morphed names. Its now called advertising, marketing, and propaganda in politics. What is pretty sick to me is that I was in a parallel industry a while back where everyone with an audience was continuously thrown product after product to advertise and keep for free just to use it or mention it once regardless of belief or functionality. The whole model is to get the working guy to spend the last $200 bucks in his family's account over and over again on crap he doesn't need. I was making $$ hand over fist as a sales guy until I realized what was going on. It was like that "how much is enough" scene in Wallstreet. Later Bud Fox is told to take a look at himself for what he's become and he says "Oh I am, and I don't like what I see."
 
I have never worried about saddle build safety and I have tried a lot of saddles Check you saddle daily and you are good to go.

Some are obviously built stronger. Some of the poorer built ones, market the fact they were tested.... blah blah. Some of those companies that promote testing have pros that used to cut off leg straps, use sit drags and build fleece saddles. Hmm. Marketing.

I do worry about knots, rope management, slack in tethers, poor use of carabiners, cross loading a carabiner , ascenders cutting ropes on a short fall,
( some of the companies that promote a tested saddle promote the rope man 1) and poor stick modifications or fingers removed by a cross bow or by a tether while moving it.
Why doesn’t New Tribes sell the rope man one? I think they know safety.

I worry about hooking up a rappel device wrong in the dark. Most climbing accidents are user error.

I have never worried about how strong my commercial saddle was, ever. Except I never trusted the fleece saddle I had but I had rock climbing harness backup.


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Ontariofarmer said:
I do worry about knots, rope management, slack in tethers, cross loading a carabiner , ascenders cutting ropes on a short fall, poor stick modifications or fingers removed by a cross bow or by a tether while moving it. I worry about hooking up a rappel device wrong in the dark.

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Click to expand...

@Ontariofarmer - Excellent points ... I would add the following to the list of things to worry about and pay attention to:

Slack in lineman belt; Slips & kick-outs when using an aider or a stick; Impaling oneself on the end of a stick, step, or bolt during a slip or short fall; Trying the latest sketchy climbing technique seen on YouTube without first considering the risks peculiar to that method and ensuring you have a backup method for controlled descent if the uber-cool Spider-Man technique fails you when you’re 15 feet up the tree.


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Sniper4hire said:
The saddles are the least of your worries.
Here's what you should worry about.
1.) Sub par, poorly engineered, poorly tested climbing sticks and platforms.
2.) Unnecessary modifications you will read about on this forum.
3.) Ridiculous climbing and decending techniques that special forces, elite mountain climbers use.
4.) Bad advice about all of the above topics.


Get a good saddle and practice safe climbing and hook up techniques until you can do it with your eyes closed, in the dark, in freezing cold and drizzle...
Click to expand...

I like this post. Also, I think they are in reverse order of "most likely to cause you harm" too.
 
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