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Let’s talk GPP for Traditional Bows + Poll

GPP (Grain per pound), TAW/draw weight


  • Total voters
    30

gcr0003

Well-Known Member
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Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
6,450
Location
AL
If you’ve kept up with my non-sense in the ‘one-shot everyone knows the rules’ thread, you’ll know I that I got a new #55 bow that I was hoping to using existing pre-cut 300 spine arrows with. Do to the ‘to-center’ cut of the riser, the 300 spine, 650 gr TAW arrows were still over-spined for for my draw length of 28-29”.

I had two 340 spine arrows that I was able to try out and confirm that they flew close to perfect out of the #55 bow with the same 100gr insert and 200gr broadhead I already had available and wanted to use. So I went ahead and bought the new 340 spine arrows, but after about 3-4 weeks worth of trouble with UPS the seller refunded me for the arrows. If I go this route I’ll be shooting 650/55 or 11.8 GPP.

During this waiting period I tried several weight combinations with my old 300 spine arrows to get them to fly well and finally came to 740 grains TAW. That puts me at 740gr/#55 or 13.45 GPP (grain per pound). The arrows are a little quiter, they stick into the target a few more inches, and they are noticeably slower. Now I have to decide if I want to set up my 300 spine arrows for this weight, or still buy new 340 spine arrows and set them up for the 650gr which I know also flys well.

Finally I will say that both arrows (650 and 740) shoot very well and the drop off to 20 yards (my max range) is negligible or barely noticeable. Speed and penetration seems to be the thing I notice the most between the two arrow builds.

Please let me know what you think I should do if I was you. And…
Questions for y’all:
Q: Years shooting traditional?
A:
Q: Draw weight?
A:
Q: (TAW) Total arrow weight?
A:
Q: GPP (grains per pound) TAW divided by draw weight.
A:
Q: Do you have a minimum GPP rule for yourself shooting traditional? If so, what is it and why?
A:
 

BTaylor

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Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
3,008
Location
Central Arkansas
Off/on and part time years prolly 12 or a little more. Currently 51#. TAW 595. 11.6667 gpp. Semi sorta rule is not go below 9 grains but 10-12 is a good range to shoot for. Current arrows I knew I was going to be shooting a 150 grain head and ordered wood shafts in the spine and weight range where I thought I might end up around 11gpp. Final arrow is just the weight that worked out for a tuned arrow from reducing length. The current arrow flight fits my eye really well for shooting split vision instinctive or whatever you want to call it. I look at my aim point and see the arrow as well but am looking at the trajectory line of the arrow not a gap. I could not tell you what my gap at 15 yards is.
 

Phopkins

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SH Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
442
Location
Metamora, IL
48 years not counting the willow bows we made when we were little kids or the 20# hickory bow I had when I was 10 or 12 years old.
46# triple carbon limb supercurve, my acknowledgement to age and arthritis.
650 -700 taw.
I don't go by gpp. I always want hunting arrows over 600 grains.
They sell a goofy bow at the Montana Bowhunters Association convention every year. You get it for one year and bring it back. It has a recurve limb and a longbow limb. It has a shelf on both sides so you can shoot it with either limb on top. Like I say it is a goofy bow built on a whim. So one year I bought the long curve as they called it.
I knew someone had killed a deer with it so I figured it was near hunting weight. I was surprised at the draw weight when I got it. Must've been about 25 #.

I wasn't deterred from my deer hunting plans but knew I would need a heavy arrow and a close shot to get any penetration. So I rigged up a 650 grain arrow and took it hunting. I killed a little whitetail with plenty of penetration and retired from shooting longcurves.

Anyway, that would be over 20 gpp if 25# draw was right. Just sayin'
 

gcr0003

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Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
6,450
Location
AL
48 years not counting the willow bows we made when we were little kids or the 20# hickory bow I had when I was 10 or 12 years old.
46# triple carbon limb supercurve, my acknowledgement to age and arthritis.
650 -700 taw.
I don't go by gpp. I always want hunting arrows over 600 grains.
They sell a goofy bow at the Montana Bowhunters Association convention every year. You get it for one year and bring it back. It has a recurve limb and a longbow limb. It has a shelf on both sides so you can shoot it with either limb on top. Like I say it is a goofy bow built on a whim. So one year I bought the long curve as they called it.
I knew someone had killed a deer with it so I figured it was near hunting weight. I was surprised at the draw weight when I got it. Must've been about 25 #.

I wasn't deterred from my deer hunting plans but knew I would need a heavy arrow and a close shot to get any penetration. So I rigged up a 650 grain arrow and took it hunting. I killed a little whitetail with plenty of penetration and retired from shooting longcurves.

Anyway, that would be over 20 gpp if 25# draw was right. Just sayin'
Ok so at 55# I have a 650 and 740 option. Both shoot well. What would you use to determine which to go with based on arrow or shot characteristics purely?
 

Phopkins

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Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
442
Location
Metamora, IL
If shooting 20 yards and in and no noticeable difference in trajectory always shoot the heavy one. Those who say how much more penetration do you need when you already pass all the way through are not living in my world. I shot 2 bucks last year. Neither was a pass through.
The first hit major leg bone on the off side. The second went in over his hip and lodged in the neck. No problems with recovery but I feel like less weight might have changed the penetration equation. More is always better.
 

GCTerpfan

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Aug 11, 2017
Messages
5,050
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Garrett County, MD
Ok so at 55# I have a 650 and 740 option. Both shoot well. What would you use to determine which to go with based on arrow or shot characteristics purely?
I have been shooting traditional for over 30 years. I haven't shot more than 5 arrows through a compound in my life. I quite bowhunting for several years through college and a little after, and when I started back up hunted with an xbow for a few years until I realized it didn't do it for me. When I was younger GPP and arrow weights weren't really discussed, at least not in our circle. We shot whatever we could get to fly straight and it was usually tipped with some type of Zwickey.

More recently, I have shot anywhere from 10gpp to 14 gpp. The 14 being a 605gr arrow out of a 44# bow. I'm currently shooting 555gr out of 54# bow. I am more concerned with higher GPP the lighter my bow. I typically end up in the 550-600 TAW range.

To answer your question above I agree with @Phopkins but for a slightly different reason. If your happy with the trajectory I would shoot the 740 gr. arrows simply because you have them but, I have been called a cheapskate a few times in my life.
 

gcr0003

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Nov 1, 2018
Messages
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AL
I’m not sure where I got off in my initial attempts to see what weight would fly well out of the 300 spines but the final arrow build weight after adding the 40 gr to the inserts and going up to the 250 grizzly broadheads is 700 grain. That puts me at 12.7 GPP. I thought I was getting too heavy but 700 grains seems like a great balance for my bow.
C4ED5C2B-82F4-4723-9182-1E56A9B49A94.jpeg
 

JSEXTON23

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Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
1,190
Location
Ohio
I’m not sure where I got off in my initial attempts to see what weight would fly well out of the 300 spines but the final arrow build weight after adding the 40 gr to the inserts and going up to the 250 grizzly broadheads is 700 grain. That puts me at 12.7 GPP. I thought I was getting too heavy but 700 grains seems like a great balance for my bow.
View attachment 73649
What arrow brand/model and spine? Total insert weight?
 

gcr0003

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Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
6,450
Location
AL
What arrow brand/model and spine? Total insert weight?
GT Hunter XT, 300 spine, 30.25” (to nock)
100 grain GT brass insert
Two 20 gr. GT steel inserts (40 gr total)
125 gr Grizzly broadhead insert
125 gr Grizzly single bevel broadhead
3x 4” parabolic gateway feathers
 

gcr0003

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Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
6,450
Location
AL
So I only had one field point that was 200 grain and previously the broadhead I was wanting to use was 200 grain so I would tune with the field point and then shoot the broadhead but couldn’t ever get the perfect flight I desired. Well now that I have a scale I finally found the culprit. The “200” gr field point is actually a 250 gr field point. This explains so many of my frustrations, y’all have no idea. I’m just glad I finally found the culprit. The final arrows are what they should be with the right weight for the field tip and broadhead.
 

BTaylor

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Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
3,008
Location
Central Arkansas
So I only had one field point that was 200 grain and previously the broadhead I was wanting to use was 200 grain so I would tune with the field point and then shoot the broadhead but couldn’t ever get the perfect flight I desired. Well now that I have a scale I finally found the culprit. The “200” gr field point is actually a 250 gr field point. This explains so many of my frustrations, y’all have no idea. I’m just glad I finally found the culprit. The final arrows are what they should be with the right weight for the field tip and broadhead.
50 grains will make a difference. Glad you got that sorted out.
 

LeTuB

Member
SH Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
63
Location
Toulouse, France
Timberghost TGX 55@29''
680 grains arrow :
micro diameter black eagle instinct 350 spine
100 grains outsert,
Centaur short mag single bevel BH, 75grains steel adapter (total 220grains)
 

gcr0003

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SH Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
6,450
Location
AL
50 grains will make a difference. Glad you got that sorted out.
Yea no kidding. It had me so thrown off I don’t know why I never determined it was what was messing me up. That little arrow scale I got from a bow buy recently has been invaluable to me.
 

NMSbowhunter

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2022
Messages
2,535
670 grains, 56# longbow, 11.96 GPP. These are 500 spine arrows at 7.4 GPI carbon arrows are nearly 33% FOC. They fly like darts and are dead silent out of my bow. I haven't been into trad for too long. I've missed a few deer so far, luckily no wounded ones. They did not know they were shot at.

190 Grizzly+100 grain steel adapter+ 100 grain stainless insert in arrow shaft.
 

Allegheny Tom

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
5,575
Location
Western Pennsylvania
If you’ve kept up with my non-sense in the ‘one-shot everyone knows the rules’ thread, you’ll know I that I got a new #55 bow that I was hoping to using existing pre-cut 300 spine arrows with. Do to the ‘to-center’ cut of the riser, the 300 spine, 650 gr TAW arrows were still over-spined for for my draw length of 28-29”.

I had two 340 spine arrows that I was able to try out and confirm that they flew close to perfect out of the #55 bow with the same 100gr insert and 200gr broadhead I already had available and wanted to use. So I went ahead and bought the new 340 spine arrows, but after about 3-4 weeks worth of trouble with UPS the seller refunded me for the arrows. If I go this route I’ll be shooting 650/55 or 11.8 GPP.

During this waiting period I tried several weight combinations with my old 300 spine arrows to get them to fly well and finally came to 740 grains TAW. That puts me at 740gr/#55 or 13.45 GPP (grain per pound). The arrows are a little quiter, they stick into the target a few more inches, and they are noticeably slower. Now I have to decide if I want to set up my 300 spine arrows for this weight, or still buy new 340 spine arrows and set them up for the 650gr which I know also flys well.

Finally I will say that both arrows (650 and 740) shoot very well and the drop off to 20 yards (my max range) is negligible or barely noticeable. Speed and penetration seems to be the thing I notice the most between the two arrow builds.

Please let me know what you think I should do if I was you. And…
Questions for y’all:
Q: Years shooting traditional?
A:
Q: Draw weight?
A:
Q: (TAW) Total arrow weight?
A:
Q: GPP (grains per pound) TAW divided by draw weight.
A:
Q: Do you have a minimum GPP rule for yourself shooting traditional? If so, what is it and why?
A:
30 years trad.

55 pounds

680 gr TAW, thats about 12.3 gr per pound.

I've never shot below 10gpp because that's what we've always been told. Light arrows are not friendly to a trad bow. I went the Ashby route. I wanted to be over 650 and 680 is just what seems to shoot well for my bow.
 

BowhunterXC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2021
Messages
310
Location
N.W. Ohio
Started shooting traditional with a Bear Grizzly, in 1975. I switched back and forth from a compound to a recurve over the years. I ended up killing the biggest buck of my life with a custom made recurve by Don Assenheimer, in Oceola, Ohio, in 1991. 56# @ 28". Easton Camo Hunter XX75 @ 29" with a Grizzly broadhead 1 1/8" cutting diameter. I don't recall the arrow weight specs. 12 yard shot thru both lungs, 240# standing weight, 191# field dressed weight.
Recurve Buck.jpg
I'm currently shooting a Hoyt Satori 19" riser with Uukha Gobi (short limbs) @ 45#, which makes a 60" bow length.
Easton Axis 5mm carbon arrows at 28.5", 5" 3 fletch shield cut feathers, rug rest, 500 gr. TAW, 75 gr. SS half-out insert and 150 gr. tip weight, for a 16% FOC. As far as a "rule" for GPP, I try to stay higher than the draw weight minimum for better penetration.
Satori 4.jpg
 

GraySquirrel

New Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2022
Messages
16
Location
North Alabama
35 years old, been shooting traditional bows since I was a little guy. That doesn't make me or anyone else an expert, LOL but here's my take based on what I have found:

55#, two blade head, on North Alabama whitetails.......

None of it will make any difference, either setup will be excellent. I'd shoot whichever seems to tune and fly the best and not sweat the details. It ain't gonna matter a lick.
 
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