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Moon Phase Hunting - Figure it in or forget it?

woodsdog2

Well-Known Member
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I read and still have Charlie Alzheimer's book on moon phase hunting and have read and considered others' anecdotel or personal experiences as well but I've always been naturally inclined to discount it due to the amount of science based information out there regarding it. However, Adam Hays just slammed another booner. What do you dudes or dudetts believe or think about it? Do you routinely figure it in to your overall hunting plans or.... Forget about it! https://www.fieldandstream.com/hunting/red-moon-trophy-whitetail-buck/
 
I like alsheimer, but MSU has done a lot of studies and the more data you compile the less evidence there us for it. Dr. Sheppard found the same after several years of compiling data from a nearby lodge that ran multiple hintertwice a day throughout a 4 month season.

My big question has always been, why would it impact movement? I can understand tidal shifts influencing fish, but why would it factor into a deer's day?
 
I like alsheimer, but MSU has done a lot of studies and the more data you compile the less evidence there us for it. Dr. Sheppard found the same after several years of compiling data from a nearby lodge that ran multiple hintertwice a day throughout a 4 month season.

My big question has always been, why would it impact movement? I can understand tidal shifts influencing fish, but why would it factor into a deer's day?
Yeah I'm not sure. Food/Water/Cover/Habitat/Photoperiodism rule the day for macro herd activity over the course of days/weeks/months but I'm wondering if micro movement analysis has really been the focus or if there are just too many variables to consider in terms of trying to identify "sparks" of movement as opposed to generalized movement trends.
 
We do notice more criminal activity, domestic relations issues etc. (seemingly at least) when there is a full moon but we haven't specifically tested it out.
 
You can't count Adam Hays as a regular guy. He hunts managed properties many of which grow their own deer plus he has a commercial interest in pushing the moon phase theory. In my own personal experience of over 50 of hunting deer, I've tried to put the moon phase/moon position theory to test many times to see if it had merit but unfortunately I've never found an ounce of truth in it. That's not saying that I'm right or I'm wrong just that in my intense searching for any possible edge has proven it to me that there's nothing there. What has worked better and proven much more reliable is hunt when ever you can find the time and play the wind.
 
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We do notice more criminal activity, domestic relations issues etc. (seemingly at least) when there is a full moon but we haven't specifically tested it out.
That's been talked about for years but really has no basis if fact from studies conducted not only here in the states but throughout the world. If there was any increased crime on dates with a full moon, it more likely is only because the moon offers a little better vision for those who practice their dirty deeds at night.

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I forget the moon phase. I wish I could find the article I read a couple years ago, but it was a credible source that did a study on whitetail in MI. I believe it stated 80% of does were bred between November 8th thru the 18th. So that 10 day period would be the rut, year after year in Michigan.
 
That's been talked about for years but really has no basis if fact from studies conducted not only here in the states but throughout the world. If there was any increased crime on dates with a full moon, it more likely is only because the moon offers a little better vision for those who practice their dirty deeds at night.

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It's not just hard crime that increases during a full moon, go to your local walmart and ask the cashiers what the worst day of the month is going to be and they will tell you the full moon. Wierdo's and "normal" people all do strange things that day. The Drury brothers put a lot of stock in moon phase as well,

My personnal thoughts about hunting the moon phase is if it lines up great; if not and I can still go, great. having little kids still means I hunt when I can not just when conditions are perfect.
 
I forget the moon phase. I wish I could find the article I read a couple years ago, but it was a credible source that did a study on whitetail in MI. I believe it stated 80% of does were bred between November 8th thru the 18th. So that 10 day period would be the rut, year after year in Michigan.
Yeah I mean the F&S Article clearly points out that Mr. Hayes was hunting on November 13th and that's the peak of the rut in many locales. If it were that easy to just "dial a buck" we'd all have Adam Hayes' track record....... I wish these articles would point out more of the specific conditions the hunter is hunting in with, pressure, private, public, etc. I'm not trying to discount the Moon Guide whatsoever, I know many hunters utilize it in their plans and others like me do not. I'm always trying to search for an edge. Plus, its interesting to hear everyone's opinions and experiences.
 
I think there is a little bit of a disconnect with this discussion in general. The question is always do you believe in hunting the moon phase when in my opinion we should be paying more attention to moon position. Old timers talked about watching the cows and would say if the cows are up and feeding, the fish are biting and the deer are moving. If you pay attention to general animal movement through the day, it happens in periods or waves with significant periods of inactivity. I feel strongly there is a correlation but there are caveats, esp re: deer hunting. I have mostly stopped worrying about moon phase but do consider moon position. However, it is not the driving aspect I am looking at when considering hunt plans.

IMO, the list of things that merit consideration would be weather and more specifically, weather changes such as wind, precipitation, barrometric pressure and temp. Basically a weather front following some days of a static pattern. Moon position, especially when the overhead or underfoot periods fall in or near general dawn/dusk daily movement patterns. The time of season being hunted. Abundance or lack of food, specifically hard and soft mast. And finally pressure. All of these things and this approach is for general deer hunting and trying to increase the odds of deer encounters in daylight for the general hunter. If you are specifically trying to kill a mature buck though I think there is a combination of conditions and specific moon phase that significantly increases the odds. This is when you can catch a strong cold front that drops temps 10+ degrees, gets the barometer pushing up in that 30.2+ range and occurs +/- 3 days of the full moon with the front side being better for me personally.
 
This work with a relational database allowed me to begin working with statistical analysis. One afternoon sitting in a tree at Bent Creek Lodge (www.BentCreekLodge.com) in about 1987, I had a bang of an idea. I would write a computer database program that would allow the lodge to manage the details of their hunting operation, and we would tie this database into the NOAA (National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration) database of weather elements. Herein lay the opportunity to take advantage of thousands of hunter days of experience without my having to do all the work. That night after supper I talked over the idea with the lodge owners, Johnny Lanier and Leo Allen, and they agreed with the concept. It took me the better part of the following year to pull it off, but by the fall season of 1988, I had it ready. Every morning and every afternoon, the lodge would send about twenty-five hunters into the woods to hunt on the massive 45,000-acre expanse of the lodge’s land holdings. Each day at lunch, we would pull down the NOAA weather variables …temperature, barometric pressure, wind direction, wind velocity, moonrise time, moonset time, moon phase, cloud cover conditions, precipitation, and integrate these data into our hunting database. Bear in mind, this was before the World Wide Web was in existence. When the hunters returned to the lodge for lunch, the lodge guides would accumulate data on what they had seen as well as what they killed, and this data was then linked to the weather information from the NOAA database. The same was the case each afternoon. Most commercial hunting operations in the South tend to place their hunters in the woods in the morning and on fields in the afternoon. Armed with the data from this very analytical approach, I could begin to unravel which variables really had an impact on whether we saw deer, but also even why we saw them. Because we have captured both sighting and kill data, we could even determine statistical data on kills by age class. For example, what are the statistical odds of taking a buck in the three and a half-year age class under a given set of conditions? Computerized Deer Hunting Boy, did I get an education. Obviously, with years of hunting success and experience, I had a lot of preconceived ideas about when deer would get up and walk around in the daytime and even thought I knew why (under what conditions) they might do so, at least some of the time. After compiling the first two years of data, I began to analyze it. The moon has fascinated hunters for centuries, and there is much published about the lunar effect on the earth’s animals. I was eager to see what the data confirmed with respect to the whitetail. For example, based upon my hunting experience, I would have thought that hunting success during the day following a night of bright moon phase would not be as good. In other words, if the deer had good light through the night, they would be up feeding all night, and hence hunting the following day would not be as good. Indeed, when I looked at the numbers under varying conditions, the days following dark moon phases were clearly better with nearly a fourfold increase in the likelihood of success on days following dark moon phases. The data confirmed my experience. In years to follow I started to look more specifically at moonrise times and other variables such as cloud cover, precipitation, wind velocity, barometric pressure, and temperature. Then suddenly, a fly appeared in the ointment. During the fourth and fifth years of data collection, the effect of nighttime moon phase on the statistical odds of seeing and/or taking a deer reversed! In other words, the best hunting days during those seasons were the days following the nights of bright moon phase. I was stumped. By this time we had accumulated more than five thousand hunter days (the equivalent of you or me going hunting five thousand times, writing down what we saw and/or killed each time we went, and then matching this to the daily weather patterns). This allowed us to move from univariate to multivariate statistical analytical methods. If you have a data set with only a few hundred pieces of data, you really only have enough statistical power to analyze a single variable like, say, wind direction. However, you have no way of knowing for certain whether the variable you are focused upon is having a cause and effect relationship upon the variable you are studying or just happens to be a marker for that effect...

...As you can see, having a data set large enough to utilize a multivariate approach to data analysis can keep you from drawing some very wrong conclusions. Now, to go back to our example of the moon phase, I had drawn the conclusion based upon my hunting experience, that when the moon phase was bright at night, the effect on hunting the following day was bad. In other words, I drew a cause and effect conclusion based upon my observations of a data set that was both too small (only a few hundred hunting trips) and univariate (looking at only one variable without knowing what effect other variables might be simultaneously having). By the beginning of the fifth year of data collection, we had more than five thousand hunting trips to analyze. In addition, we had collected data not just on the one variable (the moon phase), but also the moonrise time, moonset time, wind direction, wind velocity, barometric pressure, temperature, temperature change, cloud cover, precipitation, etc. We had enough data to hold certain variables within a set range while simultaneously checking for the true cause and effect another variable might have on our outcome (the odds of seeing and/or taking a whitetail in the daytime). It turned out that purely by chance, the days following the bright moon phases of those first two seasons were relatively warm. The days following the bright moon phases of the third and fourth seasons were relatively cold. Hence, it turned out to be the temperature that was driving deer sightings rather than the moon phase. In subsequent seasons, I’ve seen years when the data were mixed. In other words, some days following bright moon phases were warm while others were cold. Every time we look at the variables across large subsets of data using the multivariate approach, it is the temperature that seems to have a cause and effect relationship upon deer sightings/kills, not the moon phase! Let me say this another way to make it more clear. If I look at the data from hunting trips on days following nights with a bright moon phase, but warm weather, the sighting/kill results are dismal. However, if I look at hunting trips on days following nights with a bright moon phase, but cold weather, the results are stunningly good. That’s what I mean by a true cause and effect relationship. Hunters, by our very nature, are observers. We go to the woods, see deer activity, observe what time of day it occurred, notice how cold it was, how windy it was, etc., and based upon those observations involving multiple factors, draw certain conclusions. The problem is that just like with our computer based data observation, we sometimes are looking at the right variables, but still drawing the wrong conclusions.
 
For sure @BTaylor perhaps I should have titled the thread Moon "Position" hunting instead of "Phase" I agree with you. I've not used the moon phase or position really at all following time of the year and weather fronts. I may begin to look at moon position more in relation to fronts for sure. But then you hear of all of the studies from the universities and photoperiodism reigns which I concur with and utilize mostly. It would be nice to (pre and post rut) be able to find indicators that get bucks up on their feet sooner like during early season etc.
 
I can be a dolt sometimes but I'm struggling with this? Can you please elaborate??

See post above. Someone has gathered tens of thousands of data points, and analyzed them across every imaginable angle, and teased out that the moon has no effect on daytime deer movement.

I tend to put faith in that effort. Even though some people want to believe in the moon phase because it feels good - that doesn't mean things like this don't exist.

What I meant was - that guy who killed that one big buck on a full moon (or new moon, or half moon, or whatever moon), who happens to be a really good hunter, or even a good guy, and has killed dozens of giant deer, is not armed with good data. And more importantly, he's 100% incapable of analyzing his poor data effectively.

There may be an effort that shows that moon phase has an impact on daytime deer movement that rivals Dr. Sheppard's, both in quantity and quality. I'm open to it existing. I'd like to see it.

For now, I forget the moon...
 
Relating my own experience from this year to information gleaned from Solunarforcast.com best hunting and fishing times website and also, from what I've read in Dr. Sheppard's book, Whitetails: An Unprecedented Research-Driven Hunting Model.

I killed a 147" 9 point this year on October 21st at 8:00 in the morning. According to the Solunar website, this day was given a 1 star (out of a possible 4 stars) rating and considered "average" not "good, better or best". The major movement times listed 9:45 AM-11:45 AM & 10:06 PM-12:06 AM with a waning crescent moon of 15%. The weather that morning was 46 degrees with a south by southwest wind of 10 mph.

According to the lunar tables, that Friday wasn't a good day to be in the woods indicated by the 1 star rating. According to the lunar tables, my best chance of catching deer moving that morning were between 9:45 & 11:45. If I would've gone by the information given by the Solunar tables, it would have been a good day to stay at home and any deer up and moving would be later in the morning.

According to Dr. Shepperd, it's a day that he strongly suggests that I just stay at home. He says many times in his book to stay home when the winds are southernly and that the deer aren't going to be moving and that I should only hunt a northerly wind.

Fortunately, I didn't take either the advice from either source. I had been waiting for a southerly wind to hunt the spot I hunted that morning and it was my second sit in that location. The buck didn't wait for the correct moon phase or position or time nor did he wait for a northerly wind. What allowed me to arrow him was I had an opportunity to get out and hunt that morning and the wind was correct for the location I was hunting. Add that together with a lot of luck and it worked out in my favor.


Deer 10-21-22.jpg
 
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Relating my own experience from this year to information gleaned from Solunarforcast.com best hunting and fishing times website and also, from what I've read in Dr. Sheppard's book, Whitetails: An Unprecedented Research-Driven Hunting Model.

I killed my 147" 9 point this year on October 21st at 8:00 in the morning. According to the Solunar website, this day was given a 1 star (out of a possible 4 stars) rating and considered "average" not "good, better or best". The major movement times listed 9:45 AM-11:45 AM & 10:06 PM-12:06 AM with a waning crescent moon of 15%. The weather that morning was 46 degrees with a south by southwest wind of 10 mph.

According to the lunar tables, that Friday wasn't a good day to be in the woods indicated by the 1 star rating. According to the lunar tables, my best chance of catching deer moving that morning were between 9:45 & 11:45. If I would have to go by the information given by the Solunar tables, it would have been a good day to stay at home and any deer up and moving would be later in the morning.

According to Dr. Shepperd, it's a day that he strongly suggests that I just stay at home. He says many times in his book to stay home when the winds are southernly and that the deer aren't going to be moving and that I should only hunt a north wind.

Fortunately, I didn't take either the advice from either source. I had been waiting for a southerly wind to hunt the spot I hunted that morning and it was my second sit in that location. The buck didn't wait for the correct moon phase or location or time nor did he wait for a northerly wind. What allowed me to arrow him was I had an opportunity to get out and hunt that morning and the wind was correct for the location I was hunting. Add that together with a lot of luck and it worked out in my favor.


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This is the big confusion.

Doc’s book is full of “IS”, followed by a tiny sprinkle of his personal “OUGHT”(with regard to not hunting on south winds, given his personal circumstances).

The data is the data. What any person chooses to do, with or without taking that data into consideration is up to them.

It’s why I don’t like to tell people what to do. I just give them information to inform their decision. And sometimes offer what I would do based on that information. The latter is rarer.


Why you hunt, when you choose to hunt, what you kill when given the opportunity, are all subjective variables. The math surrounding what happens when you actually hunt is not subjective.

Heck of a buck! Nice work.
 
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Forget it. Temperature is the only atmospheric criteria I use to make more efficient decisions allocating my flexible hunting days vs. work/family time. I'm to the point where I am figuring out what works for me, and colder temperatures are the most reliable indicator of deer movement during legal hours during season. I've followed the atrology games and I just don't see it. I don't really care what the hunting celebs say. Most of them are shameless self-promotors trying to sell snake oil.
 
Temperature is the only atmospheric criteria I use to make more efficient decisions allocating my flexible hunting days vs. work/family time. I'm to the point where I am figuring out what works for me, and colder temperatures are the most reliable indicator of deer movement during legal hours during season. I don't really care what the hunting celebs say. Most of them are shameless self-promotors trying to sell snake oil.

My entire life is scheduled based on cold fronts.
 
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