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No-Sew Micro Wraptor

Fl Canopy Stalker

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Yes sir. The Viper uses 1 metal fastner (rated) and D rings. The fastener is hidden and locked. No movement at 4750 lbs of pull.

With the right hardware, you can still keep a sling very light.




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Agreed. When I saw your post with the modular padded sleeve, I figured you were using the padding to hide the slider! I like it and I am sure it will be another big saddle for you!
 

Marmuzz

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For lineman’s loops I’m recalling the old YouTube videos from DIY Sportsman (I think he might have taken it down now) and Treefool who modded their RCHs with a webbing sling around the belt. I could maybe make containment loops out of 1” webbing water knots to slip on the 1.75” main webbing (perpendicular) which the LB sling could then slide through, then pinch down the containment loops with zip ties. It’d have propensity to move and the zip ties would want to curl the 1.75” main webbing. So I don’t love that idea so far.

A rope belt like an adjustment bridge would be great, especially to reduce the amount of metal, despite as much as I like Cobra buckles. I had been thinking of fastening it on the inside of the rappel rings or slotted D-rings. Problem there is I think that hardware stands too far in front of your torso and too wide in order to provide comfortable bridge anchors.

Still thinking…
 

Fl Canopy Stalker

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For lineman’s loops I’m recalling the old YouTube videos from DIY Sportsman (I think he might have taken it down now) and Treefool who modded their RCHs with a webbing sling around the belt. I could maybe make containment loops out of 1” webbing water knots to slip on the 1.75” main webbing (perpendicular) which the LB sling could then slide through, then pinch down the containment loops with zip ties. It’d have propensity to move and the zip ties would want to curl the 1.75” main webbing. So I don’t love that idea so far.

A rope belt like an adjustment bridge would be great, especially to reduce the amount of metal, despite as much as I like Cobra buckles. I had been thinking of fastening it on the inside of the rappel rings or slotted D-rings. Problem there is I think that hardware stands too far in front of your torso and too wide in order to provide comfortable bridge anchors.

Still thinking…
What I do is, use 1” tubular webbing, roll the 1.75” webbing into thirds and slide it thru the tubular webbing. It’s a chafe guard and a stiffer all in one. It’ll bunch a little if it’s not sewn but it won’t slide at all. You could make the mini wrap for into a fully functional no sew saddle if you use two more of those sliders on the top spaced about 18 to 20” apart (spaced so that they hold the belt to the harness but don’t dig into your hip bones, run the outer frame through them and the inner waist belt through them. Now you have a functioning safety belt so no need for the rock climbing harness. As for the linesman loops…. You could tie some tubular webbing into three or four small loops around the top harness strap ran between it and the safety belt (think of belt loops on your jeans). Then run either a piece of climb rated tubular webbing or an additional piece of 1.75” webbing through them like a belt. Use a rated slider bar on each end to create the tucked in “loop” portion. It would probably sag if you were walking in it however it would be a fully functional harness with no sewing. I cannot stress this enough though all the sliders must be load rated. Here is where you can find seat belt strength rated tri glides for 1.75” webbing.
 

Marmuzz

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What I do is, use 1” tubular webbing, roll the 1.75” webbing into thirds and slide it thru the tubular webbing. It’s a chafe guard and a stiffer all in one. It’ll bunch a little if it’s not sewn but it won’t slide at all. You could make the mini wrap for into a fully functional no sew saddle if you use two more of those sliders on the top spaced about 18 to 20” apart (spaced so that they hold the belt to the harness but don’t dig into your hip bones, run the outer frame through them and the inner waist belt through them. Now you have a functioning safety belt so no need for the rock climbing harness. As for the linesman loops…. You could tie some tubular webbing into three or four small loops around the top harness strap ran between it and the safety belt (think of belt loops on your jeans). Then run either a piece of climb rated tubular webbing or an additional piece of 1.75” webbing through them like a belt. Use a rated slider bar on each end to create the tucked in “loop” portion. It would probably sag if you were walking in it however it would be a fully functional harness with no sewing. I cannot stress this enough though all the sliders must be load rated. Here is where you can find seat belt strength rated tri glides for 1.75” webbing.
Dude, I super appreciate your input on this! It’s got me brainstorming! However I'm feeling dense and having a hard time picturing what you're saying. Let me try to break this down and grasp it. I'll set aside the LB belt concept for now- just talking about the waist belt:

I get what you're saying about threading the third-folded 1.75" webbing inside the 1" tubular. I'm not sure I get why, though.

Here's what I'm thinking, and I'm curious what you think of this for safety, and/or if it's sorta similar to your design?

For clarity, I'll detail some colors in this example. Say the main 1.75" webbing used to make the four main support slings is red. Prior to running the red webbing through the bridge D-rings, you slip on some 1.75" slider buckles to be on the top red sling (the part around your waist/back). They'd be loose on only one strand of the red webbing, but then, using an additional piece of 1.75" webbing (blue color) for a waist belt, you could thread it on the inside of the red webbing, through those sliders. That way, the red webbing could connect to the bridge loops pointing straight away from your hips, but the blue webbing (making contact with your torso) could turn inside on left and right (towards your belly button) and be threaded into a Cobra buckle. Add another two sliders on the blue strap tag ends outside the Cobra buckle for strap management.

Does that make sense? Hopefully that's clear. 1. Is that a similar concept to what you're suggesting?
2. Do you think it's safe? In my mind in that example, the blue strap and the red strap are cinched tight together and can't move when tensioned, but maybe I'm wrong.
 

Fl Canopy Stalker

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I
Dude, I super appreciate your input on this! It’s got me brainstorming! However I'm feeling dense and having a hard time picturing what you're saying. Let me try to break this down and grasp it. I'll set aside the LB belt concept for now- just talking about the waist belt:

I get what you're saying about threading the third-folded 1.75" webbing inside the 1" tubular. I'm not sure I get why, though.

Here's what I'm thinking, and I'm curious what you think of this for safety, and/or if it's sorta similar to your design?

For clarity, I'll detail some colors in this example. Say the main 1.75" webbing used to make the four main support slings is red. Prior to running the red webbing through the bridge D-rings, you slip on some 1.75" slider buckles to be on the top red sling (the part around your waist/back). They'd be loose on only one strand of the red webbing, but then, using an additional piece of 1.75" webbing (blue color) for a waist belt, you could thread it on the inside of the red webbing, through those sliders. That way, the red webbing could connect to the bridge loops pointing straight away from your hips, but the blue webbing (making contact with your torso) could turn inside on left and right (towards your belly button) and be threaded into a Cobra buckle. Add another two sliders on the blue strap tag ends outside the Cobra buckle for strap management.

Does that make sense? Hopefully that's clear. 1. Is that a similar concept to what you're suggesting?
2. Do you think it's safe? In my mind in that example, the blue strap and the red strap are cinched tight together and can't move when tensioned, but maybe I'm wrong.
I was referring to creating a chafe guard where your bridge connects to your bridge loops. As far as attaching the belt, I’ll use a couple triglides from some old Aerohunter saddles I have and demonstrate what I am saying to attach the belt to the outer harness. I think it will kind of fall in line with how you are describing hooking the red and blue webbing… and yes I believe with rated triglides that it would be safe. The ones from austrialpin are aluminum and strong but the are very thick compared to the pro fox steel ones so they would probably dig into your back. It’s that reason I recommend using the steel flat ones. If you use an adjustable cobra buckle on your waist belt, one more triglide to attach the non slider bar side would work.
 

Marmuzz

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and yes I believe with rated triglides that it would be safe. The ones from austrialpin are aluminum and strong but the are very thick compared to the pro fox steel ones so they would probably dig into your back. It’s that reason I recommend using the steel flat ones. If you use an adjustable cobra buckle on your waist belt, one more triglide to attach the non slider bar side would work.
Are these the sliders you’re referring to from AustriAlpin which are thicker than the Fox Pros?

Trying to clarify because AustriAlpin carries two styles. One looks huge and is 7075 aluminum alloy. The link above just says alloy and is a wider version of the 1” frame buckles EWO carries. Both are rated to 15 kN.
 

Marmuzz

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I was referring to creating a chafe guard where your bridge connects to your bridge loops. As far as attaching the belt, I’ll use a couple triglides from some old Aerohunter saddles I have and demonstrate what I am saying to attach the belt to the outer harness. I think it will kind of fall in line with how you are describing hooking the red and blue webbing…
Yeah I’d love to see a pic of what you’re mentioning. No rush, thanks.
 

Fl Canopy Stalker

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Are these the sliders you’re referring to from AustriAlpin which are thicker than the Fox Pros?

Trying to clarify because AustriAlpin carries two styles. One looks huge and is 7075 aluminum alloy. The link above just says alloy and is a wider version of the 1” frame buckles EWO carries. Both are rated to 15 kN.
They are both thicker than the steel ones from fox pro however the belt buckle ones you’ve tagged are the lightest ones as well as way smaller than the other austrialpin tri glide.
 

Marmuzz

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I’m looking for some input from you more engineering-inclined minds about this design. Here’s a screen shot from Animated Knots regarding that I’m pondering:

ECC4398F-2EF9-405B-A2B1-45170888CC7E.jpeg

Link here:
.

1. With a Wraptor/ESS/Transformer design, is it correct that the main support frame (the four main bands you sit in) are essentially looped in a basket hitch through the bridge rings- thereby quadrupling the listed strength of the webbing used? (I’m looking at using mil-spec 27265 nylon webbing rated for 6000 lbs. x 4 = 24,000 lbs. / 224 lbs. = 107 kN… can that right?!)

2. If that is correct, by joining the webbing with a rated tri-glide/slider, is there a loss of strength in the webbing from bending and running through the hardware; even though it’s not a knot? Or is the quadrupled strength maintained and the overall weak point of the main harness would be the 15 kN rated slider? (Still plenty strong.)
 

Fl Canopy Stalker

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I’m looking for some input from you more engineering-inclined minds about this design. Here’s a screen shot from Animated Knots regarding that I’m pondering:

View attachment 65539

Link here:
.

1. With a Wraptor/ESS/Transformer design, is it correct that the main support frame (the four main bands you sit in) are essentially looped in a basket hitch through the bridge rings- thereby quadrupling the listed strength of the webbing used? (I’m looking at using mil-spec 27265 nylon webbing rated for 6000 lbs. x 4 = 24,000 lbs. / 224 lbs. = 107 kN… can that right?!)

2. If that is correct, by joining the webbing with a rated tri-glide/slider, is there a loss of strength in the webbing from bending and running through the hardware; even though it’s not a knot? Or is the quadrupled strength maintained and the overall weak point of the main harness would be the 15 kN rated slider? (Still plenty strong.)
The weak link would be the metal slider….. yes the bend would make the webbing slightly weaker but 15kN is nearly 50% reduction in strength of the original webbing so it won’t make it that weak. However the Austrialpin belt tri glide does not say it is rated in any literature I can find. The big slider is rated but I cannot find on their website or the literature for them that the belt triglide is rated.
 

Fl Canopy Stalker

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55BB1B65-1408-4901-BEF3-F2AE67445485.jpegFor a little size comparison. Austrialpin write the rating on their rated products, the small aluminum tri glide has nothing written on it. The large triglide says 15kN
 

Marmuzz

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However the Austrialpin belt tri glide does not say it is rated in any literature I can find. The big slider is rated but I cannot find on their website or the literature for them that the belt triglide is rated.
Yeah annoyingly you have to dig through their website to find that rating. I eventually found it in their components catalog. I noticed today it says the belt buckles “are to be used in pairs only” so I interpret that to mean using one as the primary overlap connection between the strands of webbing, and then I guess having a secondary slider after it as a backup/for excess webbing management (unless you already had a slider component ahead of it, like a Cobra buckle). Can’t see how the webbing would slide out of two of those.

3466C148-FDAC-4D5A-A8F1-FE236A6BABE1.jpg
 

Marmuzz

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View attachment 65544For a little size comparison. Austrialpin write the rating on their rated products, the small aluminum tri glide has nothing written on it. The large triglide says 15kN
Thanks for all the pics! That definitely helps. That larger AA slider/belt buckle/tri glide/whateveritscalled is huge!

I think I’m tracking with you on the design of the whole thing. And for the LB loops, yeah, I think running the main upper support band through 1-4 perpendicular small webbing loops and securing them with another small piece of larger webbing running over top and cinching that down back down to the main support band with sliders could work.

Gonna need a lot of sliders here…
 

Fl Canopy Stalker

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Thanks for all the pics! That definitely helps. That larger AA slider/belt buckle/tri glide/whateveritscalled is huge!

I think I’m tracking with you on the design of the whole thing. And for the LB loops, yeah, I think running the main upper support band through 1-4 perpendicular small webbing loops and securing them with another small piece of larger webbing running over top and cinching that down back down to the main support band with sliders could work.

Gonna need a lot of sliders here…
You could tape the tails tight to keep everything in place and cover the buckles if need be. I used 2 inch in the middle because it was something wider under my butt lol
 

Marmuzz

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I was thinking of snipping short some of those velcro wraps for office cords. If you pull them tight they should be quiet enough to keep the tag ends.
 

Marmuzz

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Man… you don’t know what you don’t know, but I really wish I would’ve known two years ago when I first got into this saddle hobby that a completely safety rated, comfortable, DIY no-sew saddle would be possible, and built for far less cost than even a lot of used manufactured saddles!! I have a costs spreadsheet going and I’ve got the whole thing calculated to $130, depending where I source the materials.

‘Course, me two years ago HAD to have a Mantis and matching dump pouches, but again, what you don’t know…
 
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