Just for thought, I live in North Alabama where we have hunting zones, opening from Oct1-Jan 27 and Oct15-Feb 10 for bow hunting. Gun season opens Nov 7-Jan27 and Nov 21-Feb 10. From Oct till Gun season opens I see deer in daylight hours regularly but bout a week after gun season opens the number drops big time. I have always thought, it’s because guns popping, more human scent, noise and more human contact. Could it be they go dark because of the shorter days and well longer nights? In Sept. - Oct we plant food plots and Acorns start dropping in big numbers and with mild temps there is a massive amount of food, including corn and natural browse. I have read deer eat four times a day but with the long nights and short days maybe they really load up at night and can tuff it out in daytime until dark. They seem to start showing up better in daytime, late Jan with the season still going on. I’m totally excluding the Rut that is another ball game, just feeding habits. What say you.
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Nocturnal deer
- Thread starter gumby
- Start date
Hunter260
Well-Known Member
They aren’t nocturnal. You’re just not in the same place that they are during daylight.
Wyatt_burp
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2019
- Messages
- 711
This has been a big challenge for me as well. Full moon and daylight sightings don't work well for me. I've found high pressure public land pinch points on busy Saturdays work well. Also heavy cover with browse. But again, I struggle in for a week around the full moon.
Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
eightballwoody
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2020
- Messages
- 74
Deer don’t stay bedded down for 12 hours.
Find where the beds are during your scouting season. You have to get in there next to them.
Find where the beds are during your scouting season. You have to get in there next to them.
They may not be truly nocturnal but in extreme pressure situations I've seen it were they'll put themselves in a spot that's just about bullet proof (figurativley and sometimes literally) and not leave that spot during daylight unless pushed out of there. They'll get up and browse within a few steps of the beds and lay back down. I've also spotted bedded deer several hours before dark and watched them stay bedded until after last legal shooting light. I have found spots in nasty thickets where after crawling on hands and knees through tunnels of thorn bushes so thick you wouldn't think a big buck could get his rack through, you'll pop out in a little open pocket where every twig on every bush is browsed, there's a months worth of buck turds, and a matched set laying there. I imagine they get pushed in there during gun season and just live in there until there antlers fall off. It would explain why it seems like the older bucks just vanish after gun season, and then show back up the next summer. While only having about 9 hours of daylight certainly doesn't help, I think pressure is the main reason they go "nocturnal". I have sole access to hunt my aunt's 10 acres. I hunt there once or twice a year, if that. I can put a pile of corn out there and have does coming to it at all hours of the day.
I agree 100%. Its tough to tell guys this though especially when guys hunt stands or even areas over and over again.
Thats where getting back to the basics and starting at finding fresh sign at the main food sources following it back to a kind of staging area that bucks will feel safe to be in or travel through just before dark.
get back to the basics and just deer hunt.
im starting to think all of this youtube and internet stuff is really confusing people and giving actual false hopes on seeing bucks on every sit.
thats just unrealistic on highly pressured public. Gotta hunt a few areas and keep it fresh man.
How much mid-day time are you hunting?
When people say "the deer are nocturnal", it inevitably is taken as a black and white statement.
Deer are nocturnal. As in, they are creatures that spend most of their time during the day bedded, and most of their time at night traveling and eating, and doing whatever deer do.
Almost all of that sign you see? It's laid down at night.
Pressure or not.
Ok cool. Now what?
It doesn't mean deer don't eat, travel, breed, etc. during the day. It just means most of that activity is at night. Two things tremendously affect to what degree that activity takes place at night - human pressure and temperature.
Deer don't just lay in one spot from daylight to dark. But if they are pressured, or it's warm, they will confine themselves to a very small area during daylight hours. And they'll only venture out at dawn/dusk, and when it's dark. The advice above is sound, to locate these spots, and hunt in close proximity to them. But I think a more useful exercise is to assume ALL deer are nocturnal, ALL the time. Framing it this way changes your perspective. If you've got it in your head that some arbitrary circumstance makes some deer "deer" at night, and others "deer" during the day, you'll have bad results. You'll anthropomorphize the deer. You'll think about them, as if they are like you.
If you can't hunt areas with huge uninterrupted wilderness where deer don't encounter humans, and it's below 50 degrees all the time, assume the deer you're hunting are spending most of their daytime bedded, or within extremely close proximity(measured in feet, maybe yards) to a bed/bedding area. With the exception of the rut, but even during the rut, your best odds of seeing those deer during daylight hours, is to be as close to those spots as possible, without them being aware of your presence. Sounds simple.
Now take apart why they've chosen those spots, and you'll start to see why it's not so easy. Your smell, the noise you make accessing, or the movement to do so will all work against you in trying to penetrate these locations. They aren't chosen on accident.
One "exception" if you'd like to call it that, is a pattern I'm sure I'm not the first to notice. Deer find a food source at night, and eat there. Then they'll often bed down in or near the food source to digest their food. Sometimes this happens as the sun comes up. If left undisturbed, they may stay there well into the morning. I have witnessed a lot of deer movement from 8-10am, and I'm convinced this is deer that laid up near a food source, and are moving to their actual bedding area for the remainder of the day. I think a lot of this movement gets disoriented on public land because of the timing of hunters entering the woods.
Yes, the deer will alter their behavior with human pressure. But they don't become nocturnal. They are nocturnal. They just become more dogmatic about it as hunter pressure increases. Find the places hunters don't go, you'll find the deer. This applies to any piece of land, regardless of relative pressure.
Deer are nocturnal. As in, they are creatures that spend most of their time during the day bedded, and most of their time at night traveling and eating, and doing whatever deer do.
Almost all of that sign you see? It's laid down at night.
Pressure or not.
Ok cool. Now what?
It doesn't mean deer don't eat, travel, breed, etc. during the day. It just means most of that activity is at night. Two things tremendously affect to what degree that activity takes place at night - human pressure and temperature.
Deer don't just lay in one spot from daylight to dark. But if they are pressured, or it's warm, they will confine themselves to a very small area during daylight hours. And they'll only venture out at dawn/dusk, and when it's dark. The advice above is sound, to locate these spots, and hunt in close proximity to them. But I think a more useful exercise is to assume ALL deer are nocturnal, ALL the time. Framing it this way changes your perspective. If you've got it in your head that some arbitrary circumstance makes some deer "deer" at night, and others "deer" during the day, you'll have bad results. You'll anthropomorphize the deer. You'll think about them, as if they are like you.
If you can't hunt areas with huge uninterrupted wilderness where deer don't encounter humans, and it's below 50 degrees all the time, assume the deer you're hunting are spending most of their daytime bedded, or within extremely close proximity(measured in feet, maybe yards) to a bed/bedding area. With the exception of the rut, but even during the rut, your best odds of seeing those deer during daylight hours, is to be as close to those spots as possible, without them being aware of your presence. Sounds simple.
Now take apart why they've chosen those spots, and you'll start to see why it's not so easy. Your smell, the noise you make accessing, or the movement to do so will all work against you in trying to penetrate these locations. They aren't chosen on accident.
One "exception" if you'd like to call it that, is a pattern I'm sure I'm not the first to notice. Deer find a food source at night, and eat there. Then they'll often bed down in or near the food source to digest their food. Sometimes this happens as the sun comes up. If left undisturbed, they may stay there well into the morning. I have witnessed a lot of deer movement from 8-10am, and I'm convinced this is deer that laid up near a food source, and are moving to their actual bedding area for the remainder of the day. I think a lot of this movement gets disoriented on public land because of the timing of hunters entering the woods.
Yes, the deer will alter their behavior with human pressure. But they don't become nocturnal. They are nocturnal. They just become more dogmatic about it as hunter pressure increases. Find the places hunters don't go, you'll find the deer. This applies to any piece of land, regardless of relative pressure.
So who died and made you an outdoor writer 
Seriously though, you hit the nail right on the head. Pressure to deer means hunkering down but they still gotta eat, sh*t and mate but they will find someplace small, tucked away and quiet to do all this during daylight. Last year, after the season I found a spot about 75 yards wide and 100 yards long that was tore up with sign. It was within spitting distance to a nearby housing project but the deer had obviously been living there for the better part of the season. Great post. Oh and I have always thought of deer as being nocturnal too.
Seriously though, you hit the nail right on the head. Pressure to deer means hunkering down but they still gotta eat, sh*t and mate but they will find someplace small, tucked away and quiet to do all this during daylight. Last year, after the season I found a spot about 75 yards wide and 100 yards long that was tore up with sign. It was within spitting distance to a nearby housing project but the deer had obviously been living there for the better part of the season. Great post. Oh and I have always thought of deer as being nocturnal too.
Too add
I think deer avoid heavy pressured areas diring daylight hours because of the human scent.
I dont care if its private or public.
The more human scent there is the less frequent deer are gonna use the area during daylight hours.
Even then if a big old smart doe or buck knos a spot where she or he keeps running into human scent . I think they do alot of skirting around that small area that hunters frequent.
Example of an area that older animals would avoid or skirt around would be open areas especially hardwoods. Thsts why where i live the later the year is the more the osks are gonna be just a bad spot to hunt.
Remember we are in the deers house they know where everyone is and how to get around. They also know where to hide and where to avoid.
I dont believe any deer is completely nocturnal a big old mature buck may be close but still moves before dark even if its only 75-100yards from his bed.
I think deer avoid heavy pressured areas diring daylight hours because of the human scent.
I dont care if its private or public.
The more human scent there is the less frequent deer are gonna use the area during daylight hours.
Even then if a big old smart doe or buck knos a spot where she or he keeps running into human scent . I think they do alot of skirting around that small area that hunters frequent.
Example of an area that older animals would avoid or skirt around would be open areas especially hardwoods. Thsts why where i live the later the year is the more the osks are gonna be just a bad spot to hunt.
Remember we are in the deers house they know where everyone is and how to get around. They also know where to hide and where to avoid.
I dont believe any deer is completely nocturnal a big old mature buck may be close but still moves before dark even if its only 75-100yards from his bed.
crepuscular is a better term for unpressured deer. but make no mistake, they're nocturnal if they're being hunted.
Remember, the terms shouldn't be thought of in black and white. They are general terms to describe the majority of a deer's behavior.
Remember, the terms shouldn't be thought of in black and white. They are general terms to describe the majority of a deer's behavior.
I wish I could find the three part series Charles Alshimer did for Deer & Deer Hunting 10-15 years ago concerning the cold hard fact based data on deer movement be it mature bucks and does or immature bucks and does it was extremely eye opening to put it mildly
It turns out Charles was at a function I forget for what where he began speeking with a gentleman sharing his dining table he was meeting for the first time in their conversation his latest story he was doing for D& DH came up and how much time and work Chuck was spending not just gathering data on deer movement but fact based data from credible sources
Well that night God smiled on Mr Alshimer because his newly found friend was in charge of risk management and loss prevention for one of the largest nation wide trucking firms in America that had their trucks on the road 7/24/365 in all of the lower 48 states
The man said one of the worst areas that was costing the company millions in losses was deer truck collisions and he had just compiled all of the data on all of the instances of deer collisions with thier trucks for literally years and years and was using it to determine if their was any way they could alter their trucks movement times to try to reduce the Chances and there by the number of deer truck collisions
He graciously gave all his data to Mr Alshimer
Long story shortened the trucking firm data showed well over 90% of all deer truck collisions took place well after and long before legal hunting hours even during times of peek rut and yes there was a significant peek and the most deer truck collisions did occur during the weeks that occupied deer mating periods but still over 90% of the collisions even then still occurred long after or before legal hunting times.
He then added considerable data from multiple universities deer movement studies using radio collared deer specifically large racked mature bucks some on public land but most IIRC on huge tracts of private land and this data confirmed large mature bucks movie VERY VERY little during daylight hours and tge data showed one these bucks became subjected to increased human encouragement they the moved less than 10% during daylight hours and only moved very short distances.
Bottom line is if you are hunting in areas especially public land where the norm is to be subjected to mild to severe hunting pressure deer especially mature bucks 3 years or older do nearly no daylight movement of significanct distances that takes them out if thier security cover during legal shooting hours
There are always exceptions to all rules but that is the reality of deer movement and especially mature buck movement in areas of significant to severe human encouragement.
IMHO once deer but especially mature bucks become subjected to repeated instances of human encouragement they essentially go nocturnal for at least if not more than 90% of their instances of voluntary movement where they if it were legal shooting times would be vulnerable to hunters.
I just read a ststistic about the deer harvest in my home state concerning deer killed during both the regular 15 day long firearm season and the 16 day long muzzleloder deer season and it was no surprise that over 75% of all bucks are killed with in the first half of the first day of the first gun season.
Less than 1% per day of remaining 30.5 days you can kill a buck with a firearm are bucks killed and I'm sure many factors are responsible for that but again IMHO none are more significant than the fact that the vast majority of mature bucks still alive in areas of even mild let alone intense human encouragement have gone entirely nocturnal.
It turns out Charles was at a function I forget for what where he began speeking with a gentleman sharing his dining table he was meeting for the first time in their conversation his latest story he was doing for D& DH came up and how much time and work Chuck was spending not just gathering data on deer movement but fact based data from credible sources
Well that night God smiled on Mr Alshimer because his newly found friend was in charge of risk management and loss prevention for one of the largest nation wide trucking firms in America that had their trucks on the road 7/24/365 in all of the lower 48 states
The man said one of the worst areas that was costing the company millions in losses was deer truck collisions and he had just compiled all of the data on all of the instances of deer collisions with thier trucks for literally years and years and was using it to determine if their was any way they could alter their trucks movement times to try to reduce the Chances and there by the number of deer truck collisions
He graciously gave all his data to Mr Alshimer
Long story shortened the trucking firm data showed well over 90% of all deer truck collisions took place well after and long before legal hunting hours even during times of peek rut and yes there was a significant peek and the most deer truck collisions did occur during the weeks that occupied deer mating periods but still over 90% of the collisions even then still occurred long after or before legal hunting times.
He then added considerable data from multiple universities deer movement studies using radio collared deer specifically large racked mature bucks some on public land but most IIRC on huge tracts of private land and this data confirmed large mature bucks movie VERY VERY little during daylight hours and tge data showed one these bucks became subjected to increased human encouragement they the moved less than 10% during daylight hours and only moved very short distances.
Bottom line is if you are hunting in areas especially public land where the norm is to be subjected to mild to severe hunting pressure deer especially mature bucks 3 years or older do nearly no daylight movement of significanct distances that takes them out if thier security cover during legal shooting hours
There are always exceptions to all rules but that is the reality of deer movement and especially mature buck movement in areas of significant to severe human encouragement.
IMHO once deer but especially mature bucks become subjected to repeated instances of human encouragement they essentially go nocturnal for at least if not more than 90% of their instances of voluntary movement where they if it were legal shooting times would be vulnerable to hunters.
I just read a ststistic about the deer harvest in my home state concerning deer killed during both the regular 15 day long firearm season and the 16 day long muzzleloder deer season and it was no surprise that over 75% of all bucks are killed with in the first half of the first day of the first gun season.
Less than 1% per day of remaining 30.5 days you can kill a buck with a firearm are bucks killed and I'm sure many factors are responsible for that but again IMHO none are more significant than the fact that the vast majority of mature bucks still alive in areas of even mild let alone intense human encouragement have gone entirely nocturnal.
There are many explanations for why I see less deer these last few weeks of season. Hunting pressure definitely restricts daytime movement. There are also hours less daylight than there were in September so they don’t need to spend as many daylight hours feeding. Alabama is much like Georgia in that even this time of year deer spend more time being still trying to stay cool than having to feed constantly to keep their body temp up. There is no winter kill here. Our harvest in Georgia is about a third of the population annually. That means there are 30 percent less deer to see by late season. And there is less competition for those spots that have everything a deer needs without exposing themselves
They are still killing some nice bucks around but they are few and far between. Our season ends this weekend and I’ll be in bedding area somewhere.
They are still killing some nice bucks around but they are few and far between. Our season ends this weekend and I’ll be in bedding area somewhere.
Deer in the deep south are primarily nocturnal. I have probably hundreds of thousands of trail cam pics that prove this. 365 days a year, with or without pressure, the bulk of deer activity is at night. I would assume the same is true for deer in other parts of the country.
Since I'm also from Alabama, I feel like I can explain what you're observing in particular quite well. You say deer are active during daylight during the summer. I would agree for the most part. The bulk of the activity is at night, but our does are still recovering nutritionally from dropping fawns in the summer and nursing. They have higher caloric needs and feed accordingly. I personally do not witness much if any mid-day movement during this time frame. I attribute this to the fact that it's often 90 degrees outside during the heat of the day. Deer don't sweat. Why not feed at night when it's cool? Or at least very early or very late in the evening and on cooler days.
Pressure ramps up DRAMATICALLY once rifle season hits. Harvest records back this up. Alabama is a strong gun state and most of the hunters kill most of the deer with a rifle. At this point, it begins to make absolutely 0 sense for a deer to travel during the daylight. Predators are in the woods, but only during the day. Food is in the woods 24/7. They can see and hear just as good in the dark as they can during the day, and they probably don't suffer a meaningful drop in visual acuity. What would you do if a monster was hunting you and he only came out from daybreak to 12pm? Would you wait to run errands until after lunch once you figured out that little pattern?
There's an almost useless half truth the the thought that "they're not nocturnal, you're just not where they are." Deer don't get the leisure of 8 hours of zonked-out sleep like we do. That privilege is reserved for apex predators. Deer mainly microsleep and are never really "off." Additionally, since they're a large mammal subsisting off of very low caloric density food, they have to eat a lot. So they will browse during the day and sip a little water. BUT...they are ruminants. So they're quite capable of gorging themselves and then digesting it at their leisure in a thicket somewhere. And they get the bulk of their water from their diet. And here in the deep south there is no shortage of thickets that have food, cover, and water. We don't have anything to force them into one area. We're not an ag state. We export timber and always have. So you have millions of acres in the state that are big woods or clearcuts, and both provide plenty of food and the kind of cover that you are not going to penetrate without tipping your hand. You're not going to be able to home in on a big bucks bed here like you will be able to in other parts of the country where there is less cover. Ask Eberhart what he thinks about hunting the big woods in his home state. He quit because it's just low odds. Big woods are almost always lower odds than mixed ag or suburban hunts because deer aren't forced to bed in one location or travel one specific route. If you put a little pressure on them, they can move 100 yards and be happy as larks.
I honestly quit hunting Thanksgiving to New Years after reading Dr. Sheppard's book. For Alabamians, with our stupid-long season...it just doesn't make sense. There's too much cover, too much food, too much pressure, and the deer have very little reason to play your game. It's possible to kill deer during this timeframe, and I guess it's also possible to sell hot chocolate in the summer. But it's not a good use of your time and energy. The exception is the section of the state where the rut hits during that timeframe, and very cold days. Which brings me to...
That little late-season boost in activity we get. It's a combination of 2 things. The rut, and dwindling food supplies combined with increased caloric needs. We have a mid-January to early-February rut here in my part of the state and many others. Obviously, that increases deer movement both during the night and during the day. All that running around burns a lot of calories. Our coldest weather usually hits during January. If you can't burn wood to keep warm, you have to burn more calories. Colder weather and more physical exertion means you eat more, and the rub is by that time of year the woods are largely barren. Deer don't starve to death in Alabama during the winter, but they definitely feel the belt tightening. Most of the good browse is gone. Most of the acorns have dropped and rotted. My dad and I always notice a big uptick in plot and feeder activity once this happens. If you wanna know when it will hit, find a woodline where you can get a pic of the canopy and understudy and take a picture of it once a week throughout season. Go back and look at them and it's pretty stark when the woods open up and everything turns grey and brown and tan. The only thing green where I'm at right now is mistletoe, conifers, palmetto, and live oaks.
Everything deer hunting revolves around food, cover, and the desire to breed. The rut only makes up a couple of weeks of our season. And the rut is honestly going to mainly be dictated by what the does are doing, and since they don't suffer from much of a sex drive they're still going to be focused on eating and hiding! The more your deer are eating and the less they're hiding, the easier your life is going to be.
Nuttrbuster you sir are absolutely correct in all you said above>>>>>>^^^^^^^<<<<<<.
Another very well known bowhunter Bill Winkie did a story about his decision to hunt only what he had confirmed with trail cam photos what he referred to as "Killable Mature Bucks" and how it was only after multiple years of data gathered from trail cams did he come to the inescapable conclusion that mature bucks all have their own unique personalities and habits. And some bucks by their very nature are simply unkillable due to the fact they simply do not move a significant amount of distance out of their core security area to make them venerable to hunters to kill them.
Mr Winkie went on to say he now realized he had been for years wasting great amounts of hunting time going after what were essentially unkillable bucks and failing to see let alone kill these bucks season after season had caused him so much frustration it was taking the fun and enjoyment out of hunting for him. He said he now only hunts bucks that based on trail cam data and his actual sightings move significantly enough during legal shooting time he feels he has a acceptable chance of killing them.
Keep in mind Bill Winkie earns his living hunting and killing only mature bucks and only with a bow and his minimum buck are 150 class P&Y.
By significant I feel it means the mature buck simply doesn't move or only moves an absolute very minimal distance out from his core area of security bedding cover where he spends the majority of his life and the distance the buck travels during daylight is so small the odds he will travel past a hunter are so insignificant as to be highly unlikely.
One buck Mr. Winkie used as an example for his story was a HUGE undoubtedly B&C typical buck that grossed over well over 180" based on its sheds he had found. Bill said he had hunted this buck exclusively for three years and over 100 sits and IIRC only caught a glimpse of the buck on two or MAYBE three occasions and then literally at the very last minuets of legal shooting time. One hunting season he went the entire season and over 30 sits specifically targeting this buck in what Bill was absolutely confident was it's core area without seeing the buck once and assumed it had left his property all together then while post season scouting found it's freshly shed antlers in the area he had thought it's core area and was hunting with the hope of killing it, this confirming without doubt he was still on Bill's farm and yes Bill had been hunting the bucks core area. This prompted Bill to go through all of the trail cam photos he had of this buck, 3-4 years worth and well over 300 of them and what he found shocked him. He had fewer than 1% of all his trail cam pics of this buck were taken during legal shooting time and this is including during periods of peek rutting activity. Bill went on to say he had been observing this buck every years from when it was two years old and even then as a immature non P&Y buck it was freakishly cautions and only ever entered fields to eat at the literal last few minuets of day lite and then it was a rare occasion when it did leading Bill to the conclusion this buck was born possessing a personality of being freakishly over cautious and should pass on such personality traits to it's offspring.
What makes this even more startling is this is a buck that has spent it's entire life on 100% intensely managed private land and had been subjected to essentially no hunting pressure or human encroachment whatsoever for its entire life.
Mr. Winkie stated and I agree 100% that bucks such as this are essentially unkillable under normal conditions due to being nocturnal for well over 90-95% or essentially all of its instances of traveling even minimal let alone significant distances during daylight and unless they are forced from their core area security cover by a well organized deer drive are otherwise unkillable.
Now I know people reading this are saying "Great but that's deer on a farm of almost 1000 acres of intensely managed private property surrounded by huge amounts of intensely managed private property and what's that got to do with heavily pressured deer on any tracts of public ground or tracts of pressured private ground?
Now this is only my opinion but I feel bucks that are from berth freakishly cautious like the one Bill described in his story are far more common in numbers then most hunters think and this is because the vast majority of less cautious bucks especially most buck east of the Mississippi get killed off before their third deer season leaving only the most adaptable and lucky ones alive but IMHO undoubtedly there are a ever growing significant number who's genetic traits of being freakishly over cautious allow them to survive and left alive to breed ever increasing numbers of doe's who intern give berth to bucks who will be freakishly over cautious by their nature before ever having to survive encounters with hunters and become educated at avoiding and surviving human hunters.
My personal experience backs up my theory. Close to my home between the mid 1980's to the early 1990's when I still lived in The People's Republic of Illinois was a very large area of forest preserve LOADED with deer and many 150 class and bigger B&C class bucks. I would go to several huge ag fields after dark and when it was still legal and even before dark we would see tons of doe's and immature bucks and even some pretty good mid to high 140 class bucks out then shine the field and see literally 1-2 bucks that were undoubtedly 150 class P&Y caliber bucks and at least 1-2 times a year would see a B&C class buck.
You could walk the trails in the woods and count on always see deer and you could easily walk within literally a stones through of the doe's before they would even move and then they wouldn't go far when you got to close and more often than not you'd see a good shooter buck. Then not so gradually we noticed seeing fewer mature bucks in the field even when we shined and no bucks while walking the trails and all the deer would HA when they saw you and for the first time I heard deer alarm snorting. My friends sister was a Forest preserve LEO and I asked if they were doing any deer kulls as we were seeing fewer deer and bucks. She replied no the reason you are seeing fewer deer and bucks is because they were certain based on finding alarming numbers of headless bucks there was now first ever a massive increase in poaching going on. I asked did they think it was a for profit operation, she said no they were very certain it was people who new people who owned land that bordered on the Forrest preserve land that were illegally bow hunting as they were doing sweeps through the woods finding makeshift ground blinds in fairly large numbers.
During our future observations of the deer from afar or from our trucks from the roads or on foot from observation points using binos it was painfully obvious the deer were now all on edge and acting very skittish and this was very shocking to us because there was always a considerable amount of human encroachment due to people walking the trails and even more from shed hunters and the deer never behaved so on edge until they were getting poached and obviously figured out they were getting poached and now humans represented a predatory threat. Keep in mind that none of these deer were ever hunted for decades as this Forrest preserve is located entirely in a no gun hunting of any kind area of IL. Yes some of it was located in bow hunting allowed areas, but there were literally no public hunting lands at all and none even close so these deer had never been exposed to any hunting for dozens of generations of deer.
No doubt in my mind what so ever that all deer once they feel encroached upon will move dramatically less during legal shooting times but absolutely all mature bucks will go at least 90-95% nocturnal at even a mild increase of human encroachment in areas were they are hunted with even mild let alone significant pressure. And unless some factor of extreme significance intervenes to force them to act otherwise will remain almost entirely nocturnal.
Another very well known bowhunter Bill Winkie did a story about his decision to hunt only what he had confirmed with trail cam photos what he referred to as "Killable Mature Bucks" and how it was only after multiple years of data gathered from trail cams did he come to the inescapable conclusion that mature bucks all have their own unique personalities and habits. And some bucks by their very nature are simply unkillable due to the fact they simply do not move a significant amount of distance out of their core security area to make them venerable to hunters to kill them.
Mr Winkie went on to say he now realized he had been for years wasting great amounts of hunting time going after what were essentially unkillable bucks and failing to see let alone kill these bucks season after season had caused him so much frustration it was taking the fun and enjoyment out of hunting for him. He said he now only hunts bucks that based on trail cam data and his actual sightings move significantly enough during legal shooting time he feels he has a acceptable chance of killing them.
Keep in mind Bill Winkie earns his living hunting and killing only mature bucks and only with a bow and his minimum buck are 150 class P&Y.
By significant I feel it means the mature buck simply doesn't move or only moves an absolute very minimal distance out from his core area of security bedding cover where he spends the majority of his life and the distance the buck travels during daylight is so small the odds he will travel past a hunter are so insignificant as to be highly unlikely.
One buck Mr. Winkie used as an example for his story was a HUGE undoubtedly B&C typical buck that grossed over well over 180" based on its sheds he had found. Bill said he had hunted this buck exclusively for three years and over 100 sits and IIRC only caught a glimpse of the buck on two or MAYBE three occasions and then literally at the very last minuets of legal shooting time. One hunting season he went the entire season and over 30 sits specifically targeting this buck in what Bill was absolutely confident was it's core area without seeing the buck once and assumed it had left his property all together then while post season scouting found it's freshly shed antlers in the area he had thought it's core area and was hunting with the hope of killing it, this confirming without doubt he was still on Bill's farm and yes Bill had been hunting the bucks core area. This prompted Bill to go through all of the trail cam photos he had of this buck, 3-4 years worth and well over 300 of them and what he found shocked him. He had fewer than 1% of all his trail cam pics of this buck were taken during legal shooting time and this is including during periods of peek rutting activity. Bill went on to say he had been observing this buck every years from when it was two years old and even then as a immature non P&Y buck it was freakishly cautions and only ever entered fields to eat at the literal last few minuets of day lite and then it was a rare occasion when it did leading Bill to the conclusion this buck was born possessing a personality of being freakishly over cautious and should pass on such personality traits to it's offspring.
What makes this even more startling is this is a buck that has spent it's entire life on 100% intensely managed private land and had been subjected to essentially no hunting pressure or human encroachment whatsoever for its entire life.
Mr. Winkie stated and I agree 100% that bucks such as this are essentially unkillable under normal conditions due to being nocturnal for well over 90-95% or essentially all of its instances of traveling even minimal let alone significant distances during daylight and unless they are forced from their core area security cover by a well organized deer drive are otherwise unkillable.
Now I know people reading this are saying "Great but that's deer on a farm of almost 1000 acres of intensely managed private property surrounded by huge amounts of intensely managed private property and what's that got to do with heavily pressured deer on any tracts of public ground or tracts of pressured private ground?
Now this is only my opinion but I feel bucks that are from berth freakishly cautious like the one Bill described in his story are far more common in numbers then most hunters think and this is because the vast majority of less cautious bucks especially most buck east of the Mississippi get killed off before their third deer season leaving only the most adaptable and lucky ones alive but IMHO undoubtedly there are a ever growing significant number who's genetic traits of being freakishly over cautious allow them to survive and left alive to breed ever increasing numbers of doe's who intern give berth to bucks who will be freakishly over cautious by their nature before ever having to survive encounters with hunters and become educated at avoiding and surviving human hunters.
My personal experience backs up my theory. Close to my home between the mid 1980's to the early 1990's when I still lived in The People's Republic of Illinois was a very large area of forest preserve LOADED with deer and many 150 class and bigger B&C class bucks. I would go to several huge ag fields after dark and when it was still legal and even before dark we would see tons of doe's and immature bucks and even some pretty good mid to high 140 class bucks out then shine the field and see literally 1-2 bucks that were undoubtedly 150 class P&Y caliber bucks and at least 1-2 times a year would see a B&C class buck.
You could walk the trails in the woods and count on always see deer and you could easily walk within literally a stones through of the doe's before they would even move and then they wouldn't go far when you got to close and more often than not you'd see a good shooter buck. Then not so gradually we noticed seeing fewer mature bucks in the field even when we shined and no bucks while walking the trails and all the deer would HA when they saw you and for the first time I heard deer alarm snorting. My friends sister was a Forest preserve LEO and I asked if they were doing any deer kulls as we were seeing fewer deer and bucks. She replied no the reason you are seeing fewer deer and bucks is because they were certain based on finding alarming numbers of headless bucks there was now first ever a massive increase in poaching going on. I asked did they think it was a for profit operation, she said no they were very certain it was people who new people who owned land that bordered on the Forrest preserve land that were illegally bow hunting as they were doing sweeps through the woods finding makeshift ground blinds in fairly large numbers.
During our future observations of the deer from afar or from our trucks from the roads or on foot from observation points using binos it was painfully obvious the deer were now all on edge and acting very skittish and this was very shocking to us because there was always a considerable amount of human encroachment due to people walking the trails and even more from shed hunters and the deer never behaved so on edge until they were getting poached and obviously figured out they were getting poached and now humans represented a predatory threat. Keep in mind that none of these deer were ever hunted for decades as this Forrest preserve is located entirely in a no gun hunting of any kind area of IL. Yes some of it was located in bow hunting allowed areas, but there were literally no public hunting lands at all and none even close so these deer had never been exposed to any hunting for dozens of generations of deer.
No doubt in my mind what so ever that all deer once they feel encroached upon will move dramatically less during legal shooting times but absolutely all mature bucks will go at least 90-95% nocturnal at even a mild increase of human encroachment in areas were they are hunted with even mild let alone significant pressure. And unless some factor of extreme significance intervenes to force them to act otherwise will remain almost entirely nocturnal.
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2 things I find a little off with Bill Winke's story and I have always liked him as a hunter and author. First off is the fact that it has been proven that most mature bucks have a seasonal shift in the fall and move their core living areas as much as a mile or more every year depending on deer densities, available habitat etc.The second is that the bucks, although they are naturally more cautious, learn their habits from their mother's for the first year so depending on hunting pressure on the herd and the mother's level of experience with humans/predators that has a bigger factor imo than caution being handed down though genetics. The rest of what you said is probably pretty much spot on.