Observations On Jacket Insulation

[ricky racer]

The interest in warm clothing has waned a bit since the hunting season has come to an end for most of us at least in the northern reigns of the country. Nonetheless I wanted to give my observations on cold weather clothing of which I don't claim to be an expert. However, I've been around for a long time and have tried a lot of gear. I've had everything from Damart "Laugh at the cold" base layers (old timers will remember those) to down filled coveralls but always was working with a tight budget. That being said, I have no problem spending money on good gear while trying to find a way to buy it at bargain prices.

You all know I'm a Wiggy's fan and swear by his Jacket Liner and Vest Liner. From my experience there is not a better liner on the market at any price to wear as part of a layering system for keeping warm. This past year I purchased a First Lite Woodbury jacket from a member here. I got a great deal on an almost new jacket that still had tags. I was excited to try the jacket out but it was too heavy of a jacket to wear until the end of November. The Woodbury jacket is well made and has a lot of well thought out features. The material is fairly quiet, not as quiet as my favorite outer layer, the old Winona knit camo (again, old timers will know what that is) but still fairly quiet.

The Woodbury jacket is very heavy in physical weight even heavier than a heavy weight Sleeping Indian wool jacket I've got. I haven't weighed it but my guess is it probably weighs between 8 & 10 lbs. What really surprised me about the Woodbury is the insulation. The insulation medium is a First Lite exclusive called 37.5 Technology of which they offer no information as to what it is. First Lite claims "that 37.5 breathes at a rate that is anywhere from 50% to 300% better than any of its competition, while offering waterproof levels that were within a 5% tolerance of our competition." I don't know how they can claim that. The jacket is warm but I can't do anything physically in it without sweating to death. I read on here all the time about guys carrying their clothing out to their trees before getting dressed and climbing to their hunting height. I never understood why anyone would do that until I wore the Woodbury. Wearing it, I sweat like a pig and I'm soaked by the time I get to my stand location. It's like wearing a garbage bag over your base layers then throwing the jacket over the bag, much like you'd expect a jacket with Goretex or some windblocker membrane in it to react to perspiration. The reason I chose the Woodbury is it didn't have a membrane in it. If it would have had a membrane, I would have never purchased it. The Woodbury jacket is also too bulky to even think about stuffing into a backpack for carrying.

Now I'm not knocking the Woodbury or First Lite products, it's just not what I'm used to. I'm used to good quality gear that has very good vapor permeability. I had Wiggy custom make a jacket liner for me using his L6 Lamilite insulation (he only charged me $100 for it) that is easily as warm as the Woodbury, weighs a fraction of the Woodbury and I can wear it while walking out to my stand with the jacket partially unzipped without sweating to death. I don't wear it much because it's not often cold enough to need it during the Michigan hunting season. If I have to carry the Wiggy's liner, it compresses down easily and will fit in a small backpack. I generally wear the lighter weight jacket liner and can easily stuff the vest liner into my small pack to add if needed.

This is just an observation and I'm only telling you what has worked for me. I've never tried Sitka gear due to cost and Goretex linings and I don't ever see me trying it. Maybe it's good stuff. The Woodbury is a nice jacket if you don't mind carrying it to and from your stand and the temperatures are in the lower 20's. I love the Cipher camo pattern First Lite uses. Will I keep it or send it on down the road? I don't know time will tell I guess...

 

[Exhumis]

Yup, sounds very familiar. I have a heavy scentlok jacket that I can't even think about wearing until I'm set. Matter of fact I can't even wear the matching pants cuz I'll have sweat pooling in my boots by the time I get to my tree. It seems to me you can't have it all - windproof, rain proof, breathable and silent. Pick a couple. Well you can but you're gonna pay dearly.

 

[ricky racer]

It seems to me that clothing like that totally misses the mark of what great hunting clothing should be. We all try to keep ourselves dry to keep from freezing while on stand and our outer wear should work with us in that regard, not drenching us in sweat due to poor vapor permeability from poor choices of materials used in construction of their clothing.

I think, and this is just my opinion, we are victims of Marketing Departments driven to buy the high end clothing not because it is the best at keeping us warm and dry but because it's the cool trendy stuff that the guys on TV and sponsored Youtube hero's wear. We want to be like them and figure if they wear the cool high end gear, that's what I need as well.

I really appreciate the guys on The Hunting Public because they don't go down that rabbit hole. I had to smile watching the Michigan Public Land Challenge this past season. You had all the top public land Youtubers together hunting on Michigan public land and the only guy that killed a buck was wearing what looked like his work clothes on. No camo, no magic clothing (it wasn't cold so no warm weather gear was needed) but just hunting prowess and hard work got the job done. Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

 

[boyne bowhunter]

I'm one of those guys who carries my upper outer layers in, and no, I'm not wearing any first light. On really cold days I wear a wool jacket over a couple of sweat shirts with a full season scent lock jacket over it. Even down to the low 20's I'm walking in wearing just a my shirtsleeves to keep from getting sweaty on the way in. If its really cold I'll wear one of the sweatshirts in. I climb the tree with my outer layers in my pack and put them on once I'm settled in at height and cooled off. Sometimes that cooling period take less time than others.

I wear a pair of wool bibs under my scentlock bibs on my lower body and I need the upper body radiator to remove the heat of walking in and climbing. As long as I don't work up a sweat walking and climbing my body will outlast my feet in the really cold weather.

 

[LoadedLimbs]

@ricky racer - thanks for turning me on to Wiggy’s. (Never heard of them before, but perused the website and their stuff looks impressive. His ducks back sweater and vest look like something I want to try. I see you like the liners and jacket, and had a heavier custom liner made.

Before I purchase any items from him, what Wiggy’s pieces would you recommend for New England mid & late season layers to keep me warm at height in the tree? We tend to get morning lows in the 20’s & 30’s mid-season, and morning lows in the teens & 20’s late season. (Fahrenheit)


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[sojourner]

Love the lamilite socks. I am definitely going to get a lamilite liner jacket before season. Really, it is less than $60.

Thanks @ricky racer for sharing Wiggys with us.

I am headed out in the next 40 minutes to go scout. Wish I had the lamilite layer jacket or vest today.

 

[ricky racer]

@ricky racer - thanks for turning me on to Wiggy’s. (Never heard of them before, but perused the website and their stuff looks impressive. His ducks back sweater and vest look like something I want to try. I see you like the liners and jacket, and had a heavier custom liner made.

Before I purchase any items from him, what Wiggy’s pieces would you recommend for New England mid & late season layers to keep me warm at height in the tree? We tend to get morning lows in the 20’s & 30’s mid-season, and morning lows in the teens & 20’s late season. (Fahrenheit)


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I don't think you'll regret getting the Ducksback Sweater. If you google Wiggys Sweater you will only find praise about them. I don't own any Ducksback items but I did have him send me a swatch of Ducksback material to see if I thought it would be quiet enough to use for a layer while hunting. I think it would be judging from that swatch.

I always suggest that before you place an order, call Jerry and discuss sizing with him. He's usually the one that answers the phone. Another thing is, all of Wiggy's products are made with a synthetic material of some sort. Some material is quieter than others so when you place an order, insist that you need a quiet material since you'll be using it for hunting. Since I usually wear a quiet outer layer over my liners (the liners I've got are quiet enough that I could hunt without an outer layer though) I don't care what color the liner is, it just has to be quiet. One liner I've got is black, my vest is coyote brown and my custom made liner is olive drab.

I've gotten stuff that I felt wasn't quiet enough to hunt with, called Jerry and sent it back to get it replaced with a quieter material. He'll grumble about it but if you asked for a quiet material up front, he'll honor your request.

Wiggy's regular Jacket Liner and Vest Liner are awesome layering pieces and I find them warm enough to wear down to the mid to lower 30's when combined with Wiggy's fishnet base layer under some type of knit long underwear that you already have. In the low 30's to the teens my custom liner would suffice. Colder than that, I'd wear either the regular jacket liner or vest liner under my custom liner.

 

[LoadedLimbs]

Awesome - thanks!


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[Blacksmith]

The interest in warm clothing has waned a bit since the hunting season has come to an end for most of us at least in the northern reigns of the country. Nonetheless I wanted to give my observations on cold weather clothing of which I don't claim to be an expert. However, I've been around for a long time and have tried a lot of gear. I've had everything from Damart "Laugh at the cold" base layers (old timers will remember those) to down filled coveralls but always was working with a tight budget. That being said, I have no problem spending money on good gear while trying to find a way to buy it at bargain prices.

You all know I'm a Wiggy's fan and swear by his Jacket Liner and Vest Liner. From my experience there is not a better liner on the market at any price to wear as part of a layering system for keeping warm. This past year I purchased a First Lite Woodbury jacket from a member here. I got a great deal on an almost new jacket that still had tags. I was excited to try the jacket out but it was too heavy of a jacket to wear until the end of November. The Woodbury jacket is well made and has a lot of well thought out features. The material is fairly quiet, not as quiet as my favorite outer layer, the old Winona knit camo (again, old timers will know what that is) but still fairly quiet.

The Woodbury jacket is very heavy in physical weight even heavier than a heavy weight Sleeping Indian wool jacket I've got. I haven't weighed it but my guess is it probably weighs between 8 & 10 lbs. What really surprised me about the Woodbury is the insulation. The insulation medium is a First Lite exclusive called 37.5 Technology of which they offer no information as to what it is. First Lite claims "that 37.5 breathes at a rate that is anywhere from 50% to 300% better than any of its competition, while offering waterproof levels that were within a 5% tolerance of our competition." I don't know how they can claim that. The jacket is warm but I can't do anything physically in it without sweating to death. I read on here all the time about guys carrying their clothing out to their trees before getting dressed and climbing to their hunting height. I never understood why anyone would do that until I wore the Woodbury. Wearing it, I sweat like a pig and I'm soaked by the time I get to my stand location. It's like wearing a garbage bag over your base layers then throwing the jacket over the bag, much like you'd expect a jacket with Goretex or some windblocker membrane in it to react to perspiration. The reason I chose the Woodbury is it didn't have a membrane in it. If it would have had a membrane, I would have never purchased it. The Woodbury jacket is also too bulky to even think about stuffing into a backpack for carrying.

Now I'm not knocking the Woodbury or First Lite products, it's just not what I'm used to. I'm used to good quality gear that has very good vapor permeability. I had Wiggy custom make a jacket liner for me using his L6 Lamilite insulation (he only charged me $100 for it) that is easily as warm as the Woodbury, weighs a fraction of the Woodbury and I can wear it while walking out to my stand with the jacket partially unzipped without sweating to death. I don't wear it much because it's not often cold enough to need it during the Michigan hunting season. If I have to carry the Wiggy's liner, it compresses down easily and will fit in a small backpack. I generally wear the lighter weight jacket liner and can easily stuff the vest liner into my small pack to add if needed.

This is just an observation and I'm only telling you what has worked for me. I've never tried Sitka gear due to cost and Goretex linings and I don't ever see me trying it. Maybe it's good stuff. The Woodbury is a nice jacket if you don't mind carrying it to and from your stand and the temperatures are in the lower 20's. I love the Cipher camo pattern First Lite uses. Will I keep it or send it on down the road? I don't know time will tell I guess...

I prefer wools over camo and purchased an L.L.Bean Wool Coat. It is the warmest thing I,ve ever owned for gun hunting but too heavy to bow hunt even with a long armguard. It's plaid brown tones and I had a fellow walk right up to me in the hills of S. Ohio and never saw me. Wood love to find something like it not so thick.

 

[Homebrew454]

I have Sitka fanatic series and love how quiet it is. I wear my bar layers in and get dressed at the base of my tree. I sweat like as pig even in winter. I wear sandals year round trying to keep my feet from sweating. I love in Wisconsin and the only time I don't wear sandals is when it is snowing but once the snow is cleared it is back to sandals.

I want to try the lamilite socks to start with and then upgrade from there. I'm even looking at making my own bibs that I can put on in the saddle. I just need to figure out what to cover the insulation in. I was thinking of ripstopbytheroll membrane material. I think it will be breathable. I'm going to make a topquilt/sleeping bag or of it first to test it out this summer.

I'm not opposed to spending money on quality and I'm going to need to check it wiggys products a but more.

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[ricky racer]

I have Sitka fanatic series and love how quiet it is. I wear my bar layers in and get dressed at the base of my tree. I sweat like as pig even in winter. I wear sandals year round trying to keep my feet from sweating. I love in Wisconsin and the only time I don't wear sandals is when it is snowing but once the snow is cleared it is back to sandals.

I want to try the lamilite socks to start with and then upgrade from there. I'm even looking at making my own bibs that I can put on in the saddle. I just need to figure out what to cover the insulation in. I was thinking of ripstopbytheroll membrane material. I think it will be breathable. I'm going to make a topquilt/sleeping bag or of it first to test it out this summer.

I'm not opposed to spending money on quality and I'm going to need to check it wiggys products a but more.

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When you say you sweat like a pig, it that in general or is it due to poor clothing performance? The reason I ask is, Stika I know uses Goretex which seals in moisture not allowing it to escape, kind of like I experienced with the Firstlite which doesn't have a membrane. If you had better performing clothing, do you think you'd sweat like that?

I bought a really nice light weight jacket from Cabala's a couple of years ago that had a windstop membrane in it that I thought would be a great mid season addition to my wardrobe. I've worn it twice and will never wear it again. The membrane traps moisture and makes me feel clammy.

Quality hunting clothing needs to have good vapor permeability to keep you comfortable and dry from perspiration. If I need rain gear, I can put on rain gear. I don't know why clothing manufacturers think we need to hunt in rain gear every time we head to the woods. Goretex and other waterproof/windproof membranes ruin the performance of hunting clothing in my experience. I think that is why I've migrated to Wiggy's clothing to keep me warm. Wiggy's doesn't make "hunting clothing" what they make is great warm clothes that have great vapor permeability that keep me dry (dry from perspiration) warm and comfortable. I don't think that camo is needed either but the best, quietest, most well designed hunting clothing is made in camo patterns which is why we all wear camo while hunting. I get past this by wearing Wiggy's clothing and cover it with an outer layer of quiet, well designed camo clothing. All I can tell you is this works for me and hunting in Michigan gets me into one of the coldest reigns in the country and I've been hunting here for decades. In that time I hope I've learned something...

 

[elk yinzer]

I'm going to have to try this lamilite stuff, you've about prophetized me into curiosity. I'll give you that.

Clothing has become somewhat of a boring topic for me because I don't have many weak spots. Modern materials have come so far from the cotton with poly insulation crap I grew up with. I still love all kinds of wool but I didn't even really discover that until I was college age. Yeah, packing bulky clothing in isn't what I call fun, but it takes R-value to sit stationary all day. I'm sure I could wear my stuff in the midwest but hills kinda change that factor around here.

I don't know about all this vapor permeability stuff. I haven't yet found any membrane that breathes so to speak. I'm still a little confused about Wiggys claims in that regard. All the breathable membranes seem to do is compromise their ability to keep water out.

I am a firm believer in having a windproof outer layer. I also think this silent fabric ninja bowhunter stuff gets overblown. It's important to a degree, but people largely take it way beyond practical real world application into the realm of silly paranoia.

And 8-10 pound Woodbury? You may want to check for lead in your pockets. I'm thinking my Large is somewhere in the 3 pound range but I'll have to weigh it tonight.

 

[ricky racer]

I don't know about all this vapor permeability stuff. I haven't yet found any membrane that breathes so to speak. I'm still a little confused about Wiggys claims in that regard. All the breathable membranes seem to do is compromise their ability to keep water out.

I agree with any membrane not breathing, 100% agree. Wiggy's does not use any membrane. If you're going to try anything, try the Jacket Liner or Vest Liner, they're cheap and are awesome for layering.
Vapor permeability is just the ability for a fabric or insulation to pass moisture through to the outside so the wearer doesn't get as damp from his perspiration. Most call this "breathing" but vapor permeability is the correct terminology.

 

[Homebrew454]

When you say you sweat like a pig, it that in general or is it due to poor clothing performance? The reason I ask is, Stika I know uses Goretex which seals in moisture not allowing it to escape, kind of like I experienced with the Firstlite which doesn't have a membrane. If you had better performing clothing, do you think you'd sweat like that?

I bought a really nice light weight jacket from Cabala's a couple of years ago that had a windstop membrane in it that I thought would be a great mid season addition to my wardrobe. I've worn it twice and will never wear it again. The membrane traps moisture and makes me feel clammy.

Quality hunting clothing needs to have good vapor permeability to keep you comfortable and dry, dry from perspiration. If I need rain gear, I can put on rain gear. I don't know why clothing manufacturers think we need to hunt in rain gear every time we head to the woods. Goretex and other waterproof/windproof membranes ruin the performance of hunting clothing in my experience. I think that is why I've migrated to Wiggy's clothing to keep me warm. Wiggy's doesn't make "hunting clothing" what they make is great warm clothes that have great vapor permeability that keep me dry (dry from perspiration) warm and comfortable. I don't think that camo is needed either but the best, quietest, most well designed hunting clothing is made in camo patterns which is why we all wear camo while hunting. I get past this by wearing Wiggy's clothing and cover it with an outer layer of quiet, well designed camo clothing. All I can tell you is this works for me and hunting in Michigan gets me into one of the coldest reigns in the country and I've been hunting here for decades. In that time I hope I've learned something and I think I have.

I'm constantly sweating while walking, even slowly. Even while climbing (presets included) slowly I still sweat. The layers I'm using are permeable but the outer layer has a wind proof membrane, which is why I don't wear it in.

What I do is wear my base layers in and then put on my bibs at the base of the tree. I then carry up my jacket in my pack. I then sit there for about 30 minutes before putting on my jacket. I then stay warm and zip up or down to allow venting as needed.

I have tried everything except wiggys fish net and socks. I tried to spray my feet with antiperspirant for a week prior to hunting season and that didn't work.

My typical layering system for my legs Cabela's ECWCS medium weight and then pants. On my upper I use under armour and then Cabela's ECWCS medium weight. I'll then throw on a light weight fleece jacket. This gets me to about 15 degrees with my fanatic series. If it is colder I just switch to the polar weight ECWCS, which is extremely warm

By using this system I have been warm and have been using less layers than before. I'm definitely going to get the wiggys socks though. I have thought about the fish net or making something similar.

I find windproofing to also aid in my warmth while stationary on the stand. I know it isn't breathable but there are trade offs for me to stay warm.

I am curious about the fish net though as I think it will cool me off quicker than my current setup.

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[joel0711]

Another Wiggy's fan here.

 

[fr0sty]

My experience with the lamilite socks this year (copy and pasted from my post on the hunting beast site). One other note, I replaced the stock boot liner with a wool one from amazon ($10). That helped stay warm too.

Like many of you, I wear rubber knee boots when deer hunting. They're great for keeping water out when going through the wet as long as you don't step in too deep of a hole, but sweat build up on socks eventually cause problems. I tried out wiggy's lamilite "socks" this year and have been fairly impressed with them. My feet have stayed completely dry, even when walking/sweating a lot, getting some water in over the boot tops and snow melting inside the boots. Not really sure how they work, but the moisture gets pushed to the outer side of the sock, keeping the part against you foot dry.

Case in point, I went out muzzleloader hunting yesterday and was hiking around quite a bit and getting very sweaty, stepped in a few soft spots and went into water (I don't think it went over my boot tops) and was also going through snow higher than my boot tops. By the time I got to where I was going I had to take my top layers off so as to dry my base layer. Once that was done I climbed into my stand and sat for three hours (the air temp was 19 degrees) but my feet never got cold. I took my boots off at home after hunting and was very surprised to see a bunch of snow in there. The socks were wet on the outside, but my feet never felt wet or cold at all.

There was also an incident in the early season where I felt cold water getting into my boot from a leak, but then after a bit my foot didn't feel wet. I thought I was mistaken about the leak, but sure enough when I took my boots off at the end of the day, the outer part of the sock was wet, but my foot stayed dry. Another bonus is they dry very fast and don't seem to smell, even after wearing them all during the MN gun season.

The main downside to them in they're clunky to wear, but they stay in place well when walking.

Now they aren't a magic bullet, but this year is the warmest my feet have ever been.

Love the lamilite socks. I am definitely going to get a lamilite liner jacket before season. Really, it is less than $60.

Thanks @ricky racer for sharing Wiggys with us.

I am headed out in the next 40 minutes to go scout. Wish I had the lamilite layer jacket or vest today.

 

[Homebrew454]

I just wish he found another supplier of boots. I'd really love to try those.

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[LoadedLimbs]

I'm going to have to try this lamilite stuff, you've about prophetized me into curiosity. I'll give you that.

I don't know about all this vapor permeability stuff. I haven't yet found any membrane that breathes so to speak. I'm still a little confused about Wiggys claims in that regard. All the breathable membranes seem to do is compromise their ability to keep water out.

I am a firm believer in having a windproof outer layer. I also think this silent fabric ninja bowhunter stuff gets overblown. It's important to a degree, but people largely take it way beyond practical real world application into the realm of silly paranoia.

@elk yinzer I received my Wiggy's order and started testing it out this past week. I am pleasantly surprised at how warm this stuff is - and more importantly that I don't get that sweaty feeling when I'm being active with it on. The vapor permeability of his garments is really remarkable - much better than my Cabelas, Scentlok, and various other brands - you have to experience it to understand that you can be too warm without feeling sweaty.

@ricky racer - I agree with you that if a person is going to try just one inexpensive piece of Wiggy's gear to see how it works for them, the lamilite jacket liner is the way to go. It's a PERFECT piece for layering and will let them see how well the lamilite insulation works. I also purchased the "ducksback sweater" and the "ducksback leg jackets" and it's really unbelievable that I could wear them in the house for several hours yesterday along with my jacket liner (making me much too warm in the house) but not feel sweaty at all. Your perspiration vapor just passes through the lamilite insulation and out through the outer garment layer without condensing. In the truly cold temperatures, I expect that the days of getting clammy and cold after cooling down in the tree will be gone forever by using his fishnet long johns and layering with his products. Thanks again for starting this thread, Ricky - I had never heard of Wiggy's before, but I'm a believer in his products now. What's more, I love that the pieces I chose aren't as expensive as the high end clothing brands!

In regards to the ducksback fabric:
The ducksback outer fabric is truly incredible because it has no membrane, no urethane, or any coating at all, but it makes water bead up and roll off like nothing I've ever seen before -- AND IT IS VAPOR PERMEABLE -- so it actually DOES what all the big name manufacturers claim their "waterproof breathable membrane clothing" does ... but much more effectively than any of their products in my experience. For what it's worth, however, people interested in ducksback who want PERFECTLY SILENT hunting clothes are probably not going to be happy with ducksback garments - they're certainly not as loud as Cordura - but they're about the same noise level as Supplex nylon. But I agree with @elk yinzer that "this silent fabric ninja bowhunter stuff gets overblown" Ducksback is certainly quiet enough to draw and release 20 feet up in a tree without alerting your prey if you are stealthy about it. (And aren't you always being stealthy at the moment of truth?)

Wiggy's has YouTube videos that demonstrate most of his products and educate you about why they work so well, it if people want to check them out. I'm sure glad I did.

 

[TCaltagirone]

@elk yinzer I received my Wiggy's order and started testing it out this past week. I am pleasantly surprised at how warm this stuff is - and more importantly that I don't get that sweaty feeling when I'm being active with it on. The vapor permeability of his garments is really remarkable - much better than my Cabelas, Scentlok, and various other brands - you have to experience it to understand that you can be too warm without feeling sweaty.

@ricky racer - I agree with you that if a person is going to try just one inexpensive piece of Wiggy's gear to see how it works for them, the lamilite jacket liner is the way to go. It's a PERFECT piece for layering and will let them see how well the lamilite insulation works. I also purchased the "ducksback sweater" and the "ducksback leg jackets" and it's really unbelievable that I could wear them in the house for several hours yesterday along with my jacket liner (making me much too warm in the house) but not feel sweaty at all. Your perspiration vapor just passes through the lamilite insulation and out through the outer garment layer without condensing. In the truly cold temperatures, I expect that the days of getting clammy and cold after cooling down in the tree will be gone forever by using his fishnet long johns and layering with his products. Thanks again for starting this thread, Ricky - I had never heard of Wiggy's before, but I'm a believer in his products now. What's more, I love that the pieces I chose aren't as expensive as the high end clothing brands!

In regards to the ducksback fabric:
The ducksback outer fabric is truly incredible because it has no membrane, no urethane, or any coating at all, but it makes water bead up and roll off like nothing I've ever seen before -- AND IT IS VAPOR PERMEABLE -- so it actually DOES what all the big name manufacturers claim their "waterproof breathable membrane clothing" does ... but much more effectively than any of their products in my experience. For what it's worth, however, people interested in ducksback who want PERFECTLY SILENT hunting clothes are probably not going to be happy with ducksback garments - they're certainly not as loud as Cordura - but they're about the same noise level as Supplex nylon. But I agree with @elk yinzer that "this silent fabric ninja bowhunter stuff gets overblown" Ducksback is certainly quiet enough to draw and release 20 feet up in a tree without alerting your prey if you are stealthy about it. (And aren't you always being stealthy at the moment of truth?)

Wiggy's has YouTube videos that demonstrate most of his products and educate you about why they work so well, it if people want to check them out. I'm sure glad I did.

@LoadedLimbs Where in New England? If youre planning on going to the saddle meetup april 25th in Mass id love to check out the Wiggys garments you purchased!

 

[LoadedLimbs]

@TCaltagirone I'm located near Hartford, CT. Unless a work obligation comes up, I am planning on attending the meet up at the Auburn Sportsman Club in Auburn, MA on April 25th. I will plan to bring the Wiggy's garments so you can check them out.