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Offseason boredom debate

Then you could post in the “Strangest things” thread about the time the hawk swooped in and flew off with one of your Crocs
 
dalton916 said:
You’re missing the point....it ain’t about then seeing you looking at them, it’s about them sensing they’re being looked at.
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I'm not missing the point. I just don't believe in a 6th sense anymore than I believe in little people, jedi mind tricks, or the benevolence of the government.

I love you to pieces, and respect you as a hunter. :) You've killed more deer than me for sure. But I believe any perceived correlation between eye contact and a deer spooking is either due to random chance or some other variable.

WE can at least perceive eye contact. Deer can't even do that. It's not unnatural to anthropomorphize deer and believe that they feel that same sense of discomfort as we do when we briefly lock eyes with a random stranger while sitting in traffic. I just think it's an error to do so, just like it is to casually declare that "big bucks are smart," or "coyotes are mean."

You keep staring at their haunches, and I'll keep evil-eyeing them and mentally visualizing medium-rare backstraps. As long as we can both agree that crocs are the ultimate early season footwear, we'll always be friends.
 
@Nutterbuster I’m also a firm believer in crocs like you and @dalton916 However, it appears I’m not as well read on cervid physiology. That being said, is it even possible to prove/disprove the claim that deer can’t sense eye contact and experience discomfort from it? If not, then making the statement that deer CAN’T perceive eye contact has the same logical basis as saying that they CAN perceive it. They are both largely rooted in our experiences and it seems like both sides have lots of that.

I may take the middle ground and start looking at ‘em cross-eyed!
 
DaveT1963 said:
lol - dude that was your pic not mine - only a nutcracker would know they make pink crocs ;) I was just bored today and, well, ……… Only thing I wear while hunting theses days on my feet are lacrosse snake boots - yes even when its 100 degrees out.
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I'm with Dave on this one. Lacrosse Burly air grips for me all the way-no snakes up this way luckily. I'm on my 3rd pair, been wearing them for ever.
 
KYHunter said:
@Nutterbuster I’m also a firm believer in crocs like you and @dalton916 However, it appears I’m not as well read on cervid physiology. That being said, is it even possible to prove/disprove the claim that deer can’t sense eye contact and experience discomfort from it? If not, then making the statement that deer CAN’T perceive eye contact has the same logical basis as saying that they CAN perceive it. They are both largely rooted in our experiences and it seems like both sides have lots of that.

I may take the middle ground and start looking at ‘em cross-eyed!
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You make fair points. You can't prove a negative. Can't prove the non-existance of leprechauns or God. So it is true that this is very much a "he said, he said" discussion. And Warren Womack also believes in avoiding eye contact. Together those guys have killed WAY more deer than me. I do have Dr. Sheppard in my corner, and he is a cardiologist with a PhD. Smarter than me for sure.

But burden of proof would seem to seem to fall on the advocates of a 6th sense. We have dissected and studied eyes, ears, noses, tongues, and brains. We have copious amounts of information on those systems. To the best of my knowledge, we have never identified any organ or part of the brain that can sense eye contact. The scientific community at large does not seem to place any weight behind that theory.

What are they sensing, exactly? Eyes don't put off any currently measurable wavelengths of energy. They merely absorb light and transmit "info" to the brain. They barely radiate heat.

Can a deer tell if I point my finger at him too? Or do only eyeballs emit magic Ray's? What if I'm a vegan and stare at him? Can he sense that I'm not a threat? What if I look at him with sunglasses on? Or wear an eyepatch? Or wrap my head in aluminum foil?
 
Maybe our eye contact puts out Infrasound! That's gotta be it. I'm gonna apply for a goverment grant to study this subject.
 
@Nutterbuster great points! The burden of proof definitely lies on the positive assertion! In studying human physiology, I know that all that we can learn is HOW things work (i.e. sensory neurons, nerve pathways and processing centers) but we have no way of knowing what that organism “does” with those inputs, or in other words, what they’re thinking. That’s where the Quacks come in and explain the WHY.

I think I may have just had a good thought on explaining this and a posted a bit of it it over on your other thread!
What if it is “genetic memory” ?? So it’s not that they actually perceive eye contact, but that it is a learned “instinct” in many deer to be afraid of human eyes/face. Deer lifespans are much shorter that humans so the cumulative effect of this learned behavior could show up rather rapidly(relatively speaking) in deer populations. After all, how long has mankind been hunting deer??
 
DaveT1963 said:
I have asked the last dozen or so bucks I have shot if they sensed the arrow coming their way - not a single one of them had a word to say on the matter. Case closed.
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Wouldn't it be great if we could just ask then questions? Or if they at least gave a darn about pleasing us, like dogs? Deer make turrble test subjects.
 
I think this comes from people staring at deer sitting on the side of a tree and a deer suddenly locks eyes with them and bug out. Probably has nothing to do with a large object being where it wasn’t supposed to be. If you walked in your kitchen and there was a gas can sitting on your counter you would probably freeze and look at it. You’ve seen plenty of gas cans in many different places but you know there’s something there that doesn’t belong. I think it’s about the same way with deer.
 
EricS said:
I think this comes from people staring at deer sitting on the side of a tree and a deer suddenly locks eyes with them and bug out. Probably has nothing to do with a large object being where it wasn’t supposed to be. If you walked in your kitchen and there was a gas can sitting on your counter you would probably freeze and look at it. You’ve seen plenty of gas cans in many different places but you know there’s something there that doesn’t belong. I think it’s about the same way with deer.
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I think people give deer too much credit for stuff being out of place. Sure you may notice something new in your house, but a deer's house isn't a few square miles. It would be like noticing if the guy halfway to work on your commute got a new car. Probably not going to notice if it's a minivan(aka normal color, size, not moving too much) but if he had a Ferarri(unatural moving blob up in a tree) you'd take notice.

Just my thoughts on it
 
Nutterbuster said:
I'm not missing the point. I just don't believe in a 6th sense anymore than I believe in little people, jedi mind tricks, or the benevolence of the government.

I love you to pieces, and respect you as a hunter. :) You've killed more deer than me for sure. But I believe any perceived correlation between eye contact and a deer spooking is either due to random chance or some other variable.

WE can at least perceive eye contact. Deer can't even do that. It's not unnatural to anthropomorphize deer and believe that they feel that same sense of discomfort as we do when we briefly lock eyes with a random stranger while sitting in traffic. I just think it's an error to do so, just like it is to casually declare that "big bucks are smart," or "coyotes are mean."

You keep staring at their haunches, and I'll keep evil-eyeing them and mentally visualizing medium-rare backstraps. As long as we can both agree that crocs are the ultimate early season footwear, we'll always be friends.
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I don't think it's an error to think that big bucks are smart, and by big bucks I'll assume you mean mature bucks with many seasons of life experience to draw on. I believe it is reasonable to assume that deer can learn, and by comparison that would make them smarter than deer with less life experience. They change habits (adapt) to stimuli based on experience. A young deer with less experience is, in my opinion and experience, easier to kill based on their level of learned experience. A mature deer with more life experience is less likely to be fooled into a situation that it may have some bad experience with. With age comes wisdom. I don't think it's anthropomorphic at all when used to describe a deers level of "knowledge". Is it a level of learning that we equate with ourselves, perhaps not. Is a mature deer smarter than a young deer, I think so.
 
BCHunter said:
I think people give deer too much credit for stuff being out of place. Sure you may notice something new in your house, but a deer's house isn't a few square miles. It would be like noticing if the guy halfway to work on your commute got a new car. Probably not going to notice if it's a minivan(aka normal color, size, not moving too much) but if he had a Ferarri(unatural moving blob up in a tree) you'd take notice.

Just my thoughts on it
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Have you ever removed a limb that blocked a shot today and have the same deer come down the same trail the next day and take notice?
Are you saying I should quit the diet and try to look more like a minivan than a ferarri.
 
BCHunter said:
I think people give deer too much credit for stuff being out of place. Sure you may notice something new in your house, but a deer's house isn't a few square miles. It would be like noticing if the guy halfway to work on your commute got a new car. Probably not going to notice if it's a minivan(aka normal color, size, not moving too much) but if he had a Ferarri(unatural moving blob up in a tree) you'd take notice.

Just my thoughts on it
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There was an interesting study done on squirrels that suggested they had extremely impressive spacial memory. Apparently, they don't lose nearly as many acorns as they should, and they find them based on landmarks as well as by smell.

Animal brains are not as developed as ours in some ways, and are more developed in others. But I agree that the living room analogy is a stretch.
 
EricS said:
Have you ever removed a limb that blocked a shot today and have the same deer come down the same trail the next day and take notice?
Are you saying I should quit the diet and try to look more like a minivan than a ferarri.
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I haven't, but I don't usually cut lanes or hunt the same spot ever.

If a deer does frequent an area it's probably more like you noticing that your neighbor didn't close his mailbox. Weird, but not going to change your day.

Again, I'm not a deer, so who knows.

I'd rather be a Ferrari even if I get noticed :)

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 
EricS said:
Have you ever removed a limb that blocked a shot today and have the same deer come down the same trail the next day and take notice?
Are you saying I should quit the diet and try to look more like a minivan than a ferarri.
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What do deer do after a windstorm? Panic attack on edge all day? Down limbs everywhere?

Or do they connect the dots that is a result of the windstorm, concious reasoning, and go on about their day?

I think like the other guys said, open mailbox, that's different....back to licking my mineral block. If it catches their eye it's up to you to have a squirrel tail on your boot and not tip them off instead of flashing your Ferrari headlights.

Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk
 
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