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One sticking. Why not use a descender?

fortej1 said:
If you ever decided to make a video of this, it'd be greatly appreciated! ;) Also, I'm using a Birdie, but I assume the application is the same correct?

Also, do you use that prussik backup when ASCENDING? That may be a stupid question....I'm just trying to conceptualize it in my head.
Click to expand...
Here are some screenshots of a video I did the other day. Not the safeguard, but a carabiner wrap rappell. Setup would be the same. This actually works very well for a minimalist setup.
I do not keep the prussik attached while descending. (Scratch that. Ascending)
 

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Fairchild#17 said:
Here are some screenshots of a video I did the other day. Not the safeguard, but a carabiner wrap rappell. Setup would be the same. This actually works very well for a minimalist setup.
I do not keep the prussik attached while descending.
Click to expand...
So how do you come to a stop while rappeling?
 
tcmetrohunter said:
I'm almost certain he meant he doesn't have the prussic attached when ascending. If not then I'd say he doesn't have a need to stop so he doesn't run one.
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yeah thats what I figured. Is it a bad idea to ascend with the same rope you rappel with if you are using a figure 8 to descend?
 

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Beeyuu said:
yeah thats what I figured. Is it a bad idea to ascend with the same rope you rappel with if you are using a figure 8 to descend?
Click to expand...

That I don't know. If you're going to try and mange the rope through the figure 8 and a prussic while ascending I imagine that will be a PITA. I'll be using an ascender going up and swapping to the ATC/Prussic to get down which I am going to leave attached to my rope since it doesn't get in the way and it's easier to just clip in that way.
 
tcmetrohunter said:
That I don't know. If you're going to try and mange the rope through the figure 8 and a prussic while ascending I imagine that will be a PITA. I'll be using an ascender going up and swapping to the ATC/Prussic to get down which I am going to leave attached to my rope since it doesn't get in the way and it's easier to just clip in that way.
Click to expand...
Hypothetical question: If it were you and you were you going to use a birdie to descend, would you still choose to ascend with a proper ascender (ropeman for example), or would you feel comfortable ascending with the birdie?
 
sheep leading sheep over here….
I would be really, really cautious in giving others ideas that aren’t bullet proof. That’s a quick way to get someone hurt or dead. Is our resident safety officer taking the day off or what? @kyler1945
 
gcr0003 said:
sheep leading sheep over here….
I would be really, really cautious in giving others ideas that aren’t bullet proof. That’s a quick way to get someone hurt or dead. Is our resident safety officer taking the day off or what? @kyler1945
Click to expand...
Why don't you go ahead and elaborate.......we're all ears.
 
fortej1 said:
Hypothetical question: If it were you and you were you going to use a birdie to descend, would you still choose to ascend with a proper ascender (ropeman for example), or would you feel comfortable ascending with the birdie?
Click to expand...
I would feel most comfortable using a device the way it was designed and engineered to be used. Asking people on a forum is not where I would get my information for systems I trust my life to. You will have no idea if some Joe smoe just logged on and told you to rig your set up unsafely unless you know what you’re doing.

Being comfortable rappelling for me is using tried and true methods that are trusted across multiple domains and industries both in the US as well as internationally. Things like a figure 8 or ATC and a friction hitch. There are plenty of trusted climbing sources on the internet that go to great length to explain how these tool should be used. There’s nothing wrong with a caribiner and hitch either there are plenty of configurations that can be used

I love to help new guys try new stuff but I’m am increasingly discouraged by the bad advice and information presented on an open public forum. I hate to say I’m starting to take @kyler1945 s methodology of being a curmudgeon and encouraging y’all to learn this stuff yourself. Only you can prevent and mitigate injury while climbing.

@Fairchild#17 that wasn’t directed at anyone in particular but the thread as a whole. There are a lot of new guys using gear they are not familiar with without knowing all the risks. They are getting 2nd hand information from other guys who may or may not be experts at the given subject. Btw I’m just some guy on the internet too, not an expert!

Requests like (tell me how to do it) do not require the user to think. Some will blindly monkey see monkey do the suggested without understanding the basics of operation and/or the risks.
 
I certainly understand that, but your comment that somebody is going to end up hurt or dead implies that you are seeing something blatantly wrong. If you see it, point it out specifically for the new guys looking for answers. (I'm one of the new guys in the rappelling game too).
I want to be proficient in a plan A, plan B, and plan C if I'm going to suspend myself up in a tree in the dark.
I don't see anything specifically dangerously negligent in this thread. Do you?
 
I think that's a very fair criticism @Fairchild#17. I do understand the inherent risks with trusting posts in forums...especially for life safety. I would never blindly go up a tree based on one person's advice. I'm assessing all the risks by posting multiple times in this forum and doing research outside of this forum.
 
Fairchild#17 said:
Here are some screenshots of a video I did the other day. Not the safeguard, but a carabiner wrap rappell.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't trust that "carabiner wrap" at height.
You should learn a Munter hitch and it's variations if you don't wanna pack extra items.
 
@gcr0003 @Fairchild#17 @kyler1945
Just for reference to ascending and hanging with the Birdie....this wasn't my original idea. It's what I saw the guys doing on these Staggs in the Wild video:

I would be interested in knowing yall's opinion on whether or not yall view this as safe? While I understand trusting people in forums is risky, I also think the open discussion and criticism of methods in forums like this are very helpful.
 
I’ve had a very recent enlightenment myself. Instead of asking about specific details to make a system better or ‘more safe’ I wasn’t asking the bigger questions first. For example, instead of asking if a scaffold hitch is tied on correctly, a better question is what rope are you tying it on? How are you going to use the rope? You may find the answers to those questions are really unacceptable and go a different direction.

anyway that doesn’t really belong here I guess but its just fresh on my mind.
 
fortej1 said:
@gcr0003 @Fairchild#17 @kyler1945
Just for reference to ascending and hanging with the Birdie....this wasn't my original idea. It's what I saw the guys doing on these Staggs in the Wild video:

I would be interested in knowing yall's opinion on whether or not yall view this as safe? While I understand trusting people in forums is risky, I also think the open discussion and criticism of methods in forums like this are very helpful.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to watch over an hour of video.

I'm not qualified in any way to give you advice on climbing gear or methods.

But if you ask the specific questions you have, I may be able to offer some information to point you in the right direction.
 
phatkaw said:
I wouldn't trust that "carabiner wrap" at height.
You should learn a Munter hitch and it's variations if you don't wanna pack extra items.
Click to expand...
Start the video around the 1:40 mark. He claims this is taught in the Army and Marines training? I did try it from 15' or so and it was just as smooth as the Munter. Maybe smoother and just as easily controlled with the friction hitch.
 
kyler1945 said:
I'm not going to watch over an hour of video.

I'm not qualified in any way to give you advice on climbing gear or methods.

But if you ask the specific questions you have, I may be able to offer some information to point you in the right direction.
Click to expand...

No problem. I guess my specific question is this: Is it considered safe to ascend and hang at hunting height using a Beal Birdie and my rappel rope as my tether? If you don't feel comfortable answering that question, I completely understand.

For context, I'd be climbing with my Eastern Woods onestick. For my tether ascending and hanging at hunting height, I'd be using the Birdie, Mad Rock Super Tech screw gate carabiner and 40' of 9mm Canyon "Camo" Elite rappel line that came with their Onestick Rappel kit I purchased from them.
 
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