Outfitter Question

[Idobbq]

When you book with an outfitter (if you use an outfitter/guide)...what should be the minimum you expect from that outfitter or guide? I've never used one before until this year. Just curious about what makes a good one or not as I have no basis for comparison. I'll detail my experience once I've read your responses.

Not sure if this is the proper place for this question...but, it is related to deer hunting.

 

[Exhumis]

I can only relate to moose, bear and fishing outfitting all of which I did in my younger years. We usually proceeded what was listed in the contract. We were very communicative with our clients as to their level of exp ie I’ve done this before, I like hiking, I’ve never been outside, what’s hunting type of info. That can tell you what to expect from the hunter. Of course we’d always size them up when they arrived as most would lie and then plan accordingly.
At a minimum I’d expect a guide to put you on animals. Granted some things can’t be planned for as Mother Nature is a fickle beast and Murphy reads his head at the worst times but a good guide will have a back up plan. If you’re going to be in mountainous terrain don’t expect them to have a Sherpa and hump your gear for you. That should be obvious but I bring it up for a reason. But asI said at a minimum they should be able to put you in animals

 

[kyler1945]

I put 100% of the responsibility on the hunter to communicate their expectations and questions and concerns and all that prior to giving a guide outfit any cash. If they don’t communicate effectively and give you the assurance you need, verbally and in writing, don’t give them cash.

From then, it’s a shared responsibility to communicate. Contracts only need to be executed when one side doesn’t meet the expectations of the other. If that is because the guide underperformed, make them make good on their contract. If they didn’t meet expectations because you didn’t communicate them, that’s on you.

You’re asking what people’s expectations are. Everyone is different. What are your expectations? Did the guide meet them? If not, who’s fault is it?

 

[BTaylor]

Minimum expectation? A place to sleep and food to eat. Unless you are going to a high fence operation, there should be no expectation of a kill or even the opportunity for a kill. Wild critters always get a vote.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

One of my good friends goes on quite a few guided hunts. He always asks for references from people who have hunted with the guide before. He calls and talks to several different people. Most guides will be happy to provide references. Also, like mentioned, talk to the guide and be up front about what you expect. Assuming doesn't lead to good results.

 

[BigB]

Did a guided hunt in Florida years ago for hogs. Group of buddies from archery club went. Talked to guy by phone had great experience. Go back few years later guy completely changed his hunts and it SUCKED! Don’t assume anything talk by phone and get recent references.

 

[thedutchtouch]

I think it varies widely depending on where and what you are hunting. And even then there's differences between guides and outfitters and air taxis and people that purport themselves to be any of the above. To be honest, I lurk a decent amount on rokslide.com (more and more as I plan more Alaska adventures with my brother) and this seems like more of a there topic than a here topic, but I'm guessing there's a few people on here that will be helpful!

 

[Phopkins]

You can only expect a hunt to your satisfaction if you have delineated those expectations in conversation with the outfitter. You would need to verbally express all your own limitations as well. If an outfitter says you can't shoot a bull or buck of less than X score, that doesn't mean he has any to show you above that size. It could be a marketing gimmick.
I knew an outfitter once that said selling hunts was easy, all he needed was a new supply of "uneducated consumers" each year.
So...........if you dont educate yourself about a particular outfit you could be severely disappointed.

 

[Idobbq]

Sorry for the delay...I've been away. Let me start by saying this: I've never used an outfitter before and didn't know what to expect, nor what questions to ask. So - I'm sure most of the frustration I felt is squarely on me. When we got to the outfitter's lodge, there were probably 10 or 12 trucks there already. I didn't think anything of it since our hunt was scheduled to start on a Friday. Turns out, there were approximately 25 or so hunters in camp that week. Again, not a big deal. However, this is where it gets sketchy (or sketchy in my way of thinking). He pulls up a farm on On-X and says go hunt this farm, but "I don't know a lot about it - I just bought it in January". He had stands set up and trail cams. My son went along to photograph and record. We found multiple cards that were full with the last pic taken in September - we were hunting last of October/first week of November. He gave us no clue where to hunt - basically just said find a stand. The only thing that was mentioned was one stand that he said probably wasn't the best spot to hunt. As it turns out, that is the spot we should have been hunting all week as that looked the best of all the places we did find. We got the feeling that he really didn't care if we killed or not. Maybe that's perception. But - it did leave a bad taste in my mouth for outfitters. I do not expect them to know definitively where deer are going to be. However, if you're going to put somebody on a piece of ground, you'd think he would have taken a bit more perceived interest in the hunt or what we were seeing. To us, he was pretty much hands off.

 

[kyler1945]

Sorry for the delay...I've been away. Let me start by saying this: I've never used an outfitter before and didn't know what to expect, nor what questions to ask. So - I'm sure most of the frustration I felt is squarely on me. When we got to the outfitter's lodge, there were probably 10 or 12 trucks there already. I didn't think anything of it since our hunt was scheduled to start on a Friday. Turns out, there were approximately 25 or so hunters in camp that week. Again, not a big deal. However, this is where it gets sketchy (or sketchy in my way of thinking). He pulls up a farm on On-X and says go hunt this farm, but "I don't know a lot about it - I just bought it in January". He had stands set up and trail cams. My son went along to photograph and record. We found multiple cards that were full with the last pic taken in September - we were hunting last of October/first week of November. He gave us no clue where to hunt - basically just said find a stand. The only thing that was mentioned was one stand that he said probably wasn't the best spot to hunt. As it turns out, that is the spot we should have been hunting all week as that looked the best of all the places we did find. We got the feeling that he really didn't care if we killed or not. Maybe that's perception. But - it did leave a bad taste in my mouth for outfitters. I do not expect them to know definitively where deer are going to be. However, if you're going to put somebody on a piece of ground, you'd think he would have taken a bit more perceived interest in the hunt or what we were seeing. To us, he was pretty much hands off.

Ah, this is a language issue. What you’re referring to is a rent seeker who buys up leases, and sublets them out. Farmers like them because they deal with one person, often with insurance handled, and they never talk to hunters. One stop shop.

They’re a middle man. They are not outfitters.

You heard or read “outfitter” and assumed “a professional hunter and guide who makes their living keeping you fed, rested, and on animals”

It’s an unfortunate thing we can’t use the proper term for these folks. They aren’t doing anything wrong. They’re just not being portrayed as they should be.

And yes, all of the blame is squarely on your shoulders unfortunately. All of this could be sussed out fairly easily with a little research and proper communication.

Lesson learned. The one upside of situations like this, is often times you can leverage it and go do your own thing and kill big deer in spots they don’t want you in or are too lazy to get you to. If you’re self reliant and know how to hunt, it may be better. They won’t want to fuss with you because they don’t want the trouble or rep hit.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I have been on two "guided hunts" out of state. The first was what I would categorize as really guided. The outfitter had three lodges (nice) all within about a 40 mile drive. He had X number of farms leased within a reasonable drive of these lodges. He had a couple of guys at each lodge who organized the hunters by farms, and he rotated out farms so they would not get overhunted. There were maybe 6 other hunters at the camp we were at. Some of the farms were really farms, some were parcels of land. In the morning starting about 2 hours before sunup they would drop off the hunters to their respective farms and then be available to pick you up late morning or if you decided to sit all day, they would come get you after dark. A funny thing happened while were in camp on the first day. We were all gathered around a truck discussing the upcoming hunt with the guides guys. Each hunter went around in turn telling these guys what sort of stand they would hunt out of, be it a ground blind only, or a ladder stand only or a lock on, and what kind of stand they didn't want to hunt from or would flatly refuse to hunt out of. I listened and when it was finally my turn, I told the guys I didn't care what kind of stand it was, I just wanted to be where the big bucks were. They looked at each other and kind of snickered after just hearing all the other dude's preferences. Sure enough, they steered me to a great out of the way spot, and I was covered up with deer. Some of the other guys were comfortable but didn't see much. I didn't bring home a buck that trip, but I had a great time and saw a lot of deer.

The other trip was a bit different. We met the "guide", a friendly fellow, and signed all the "don't sue me if you get hurt paperwork" and chatted a while. Then we followed him out to the "farm" we were to hunt. It was a small block of thick timber and undergrowth with a powerline easement running through it. He showed us the boundaries of the place on a map, indicated where a ladder stand and a ground blind were located, and told us if we needed him to just call. My friend and I had brought along a 20-foot stick ladder stick and a Millennium lock on which we secured permission to put up at a spot of our choosing and I brought along my little Lone Wolf Assault 2 hand climber for mobility (pre saddle days). Once I knew the location of the farm, I pulled up a topo map and we decided where we wanted the Millennium stand, we eased in and hung it.

We tossed a coin to see who would hunt the blind and who would get the millennium. Neither of us wanted the Walmart ladder stand, lol. It looked a bit sketchy, and we both thought the deer surely knew it well by now and would be looking at it. We hunted our spots for two days and we saw a lot of deer. We saw a few really nice ones too but never close enough. On day three my buddy wanted to try the ground blind (which I had been in for a while and was tired of, so we switched) I hunted the Millennium and he hunted the blind that morning. There was snow on the ground, and I did not see any tracks near the millennium. Having no faith in the Millennium spot after the morning hunt, a studied the topo map again, and that afternoon I took my climber and went down the hill into the draw a few hundred yards and found what I was looking for. It was a well-worn trail in a very tight pinch point alongside a deep creek. If the deer were going to come through, they had to pass by that one spot. I set up in a three trunked tree and that evening I had a nice buck come by chasing two does and I put an arrow through him at 12 yards.

Of the two types of hunts, I like the latter. I just feel like it is more fun walking onto a new piece of property and figuring it out for myself. All the second guide did was lease the land and set up a few stands and run a camera out there. He was also available to help us get a deer out. Aside from that we had free reign of the place for the 5 or 6 days. At the first place, I saw deer, but I felt like even though it was a very good location I was in a spot that someone else found and prepared. The service at the first place was to a much higher level with room and board furnished but, in the end, the essentially DIY hunt at the second place was more fulfilling.

I guess your enjoyment of the experience boils down to what you really want to get out of the hunt and how closely the experience meshes with your expectations.