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Platform size and thickness research

GCTerpfan said:
I think it was Brad Kuhnert’s original platform maybe?

You’ve peaked my interest @Samcirrus. I need another platform before next season and have been going back and forth on what to get. I’m interested to see what you come out with. Any idea on when they may be available? Or is it still too early to know?
Click to expand...

 
Samcirrus said:
Your first question is opposite to how you do it.
Click to expand...
So did I just confuse myself and think cam up was something other than the standard set up? Like a predator... ect like almost all caming platforms?
 
Samcirrus said:
Could I pose another question? I'm gonna edit the first post to reflect this as well for anyone seeing this thread for the first time...
If you could have the perfect width and depth dimensions for you,what would they be?
And are all the odd outer shapes of the various common platforms a good thing or would flat straight lines, like tree stands have be easier on the feet?
Click to expand...

I think your 15" x 15" at under 2.5 lbs might be the perfect size to do it all with one platform....for me at least (this is larger than the predator xl in surface area but 1.5 lbs lighter)

now, if you started selling a variety of sizes, I'd probably also buy one that is predator sized if it was under 2 lbs....just for ultimate run and gun....my minimum size is probably predator size since it is the smallest size i can stand and turn on without having to hold onto the tree or my tether

while we are at it, if you offered a 3 lbs version that was really spacious....i'd probably buy it too eventually

my order of preference would be 15x15, then predator size, then the bigger one (this would be for do-it-all/general stand, then walking deep, and then all days sits without a far walk....respectively)

as far as shape, i don't have a strong preference as long as you can maneuver without falling off while not looking and also you can push off the sides

a gentle diamond shape with a point to push off the side might be nice, but a very minor diamond with flat ends at the tree and edge furthest from the tree also
 
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Samcirrus said:
Oh we can go down that trail here....I too am curious. Was the predator platform the first one that started the post up trend?
Click to expand...

I guess it depends who you ask…:rolleyes:

Ditched the Button

That would be me, but I had an issue modding the sticks. I have some others that I will mod (after I get access to a drill press), then I will try with original helium part. BTW, who makes those steps? Do you like them?Hawk razor shortmax, I like my API huntin sticks better. I did a review on...
saddlehunter.com
 
GCTerpfan said:
I think it was Brad Kuhnert’s original platform maybe?

You’ve peaked my interest @Samcirrus. I need another platform before next season and have been going back and forth on what to get. I’m interested to see what you come out with. Any idea on when they may be available? Or is it still too early to know?
Click to expand...
Oh, I don't dare say....and unlike the Tethrd Vader, I'd never want to show it off at a show and it not be available for sale for another year or 2....so I hope that we'll have factory prototypes(not my handmade ones) to test this fall then maybe be ready next year.
 
Horn said:
So did I just confuse myself and think cam up was something other than the standard set up? Like a predator... ect like almost all caming platforms?
Click to expand...
Actually, not sure what you meant, but regular platforms with an upward post, cam down. An Andy style or like that other DIY platform thread had, you install the platform hanging down, then csm up and set the underneath supports.
 
Allegheny Tom said:
I'm still convinced that style of platform has the edge over the current flavor. There is no perfect platform, it depends on the tree but I really like having the support UNDER the surface rather than the post style of platform because the surface is 100% usable.
We have changed a couple of things since the pics in my old post. Those old pics had us camming down, but now we prefer to cam up. It keeps the support post firm against the tree when the platform is unweighted.
The other change we've made to them is to swap out the steel chain with an Amsteel daisy chain. Steel chain is still great for leaving the stand padlocked to the tree but amsteel makes it a few pounds lighter and quieter to set.
Someone needs to make a commercial lightweight version of these.
Click to expand...
How did your DIY one handle side pressure? That would be my biggest concern for a bottom outer support
 
Horn said:
Cam up? Do you set the bottom support where you want it with the platform still angled up, then pull out and lift them rear/ push down on the front then release the platform to the tree?

Also, how did we arrive at our current post up versa button design that pretty much everything employs? Maybe a topic for a different thread instead of derailing this one. Just curious. I haven't been around long enough to know
Click to expand...
Ha, I figured that I'd have to explain that a little better.
40+ years ago when I 1st started making these, I'd seen them off the tree, and I saw the on the tree, but I never saw anyone actually hang one so I did it my way, which was probably less than ideal. It's best explained if we agree that we will call the part of the platform that meets the tree "the back" and the side away from the tree, we will call "the front". I would pull the stand up the tree, then wrap the chain around the tree with the front pointing up ^. The chain would be wrapped around the tree and then the platform would be cammed down. It worked well enough but the stand could sometimes flex back up slightly when it was unweighted which allowed the support post to pull away from the tree a few inches. I'd always need to be diligent when stepping onto the stand to make sure the support post was engaging the tree properly.

The better way to hang these is to initially attach to the tree with the front hanging DOWN (not up), and cam it UP ^. Doing it that way tends to keep the support post always engaged against the tree if/when the stand is unweighted. A drawback of camming up is it might take a little more strength to cam it up, but when you cam down you can (carefully) step onto the platform to set it.
Each way has their pros and cons but in general, cam up seems to be better. There are some other details of the reasons to do one or the other, but I'm out of time right now. I'll post later......
 
As far as the size of the platform, I like that 14-15" wide size but would prefer to have a little more length off the tree say 18-20". The additional length virtually eliminates the need to push off the sides to gain a shot angle, at least for me.
 
b226ba9e9fecc171224f178e758992fe.jpg

This is a friends stand that he got back in the 90’s. Originally the tubing that goes against the tree was uncut. It could be a problem to get the stand on the tree if there was any sort of knot or trunk irregularities. I had another friend modify it and rebrace it. This is a big stand. That is a battery box for reference. A scaled down version modified to level and keep the ability to add the seat would make a very functional and adaptable setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If you need another oversized gorilla to sign an NDA and stress test prototypes I'm available. Pretty excited to see how this turns out. At 15 x 15 I'm not sure anything but straight edges are necessary, there's quite a bit of real estate to use at that size. 12 x 12 or so and I'd probably be interested in having so geometry to work with, but I don't have a shape in mind for that.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
How did your DIY one handle side pressure? That would be my biggest concern for a bottom outer support
Click to expand...
How well it handles side pressure is a combination of factors. Keep in mind that we made these platforms from the size of that grating (from scrapping a factory) that was available to us and size definitely has a bearing on how well it handles side pressure. The original pieces were 12" wide x 24" long. We used those long before we started using saddles so side pressure did not come into play. When we started saddle hunting, we discovered that the 24" length would create too much torque leverage on the platform when we would put all of our weight out on one of the corners. The support post would actually shift, and sometimes shift to the point that it seemed like it could actually slip off the side of the tree (YIKES!). We solved that by adding a 2nd strap around the tree and attached it at the base of the post. The secondary strap was just a cheap cam strap, but 7/64" Amstel daisy chain trucker's hitch worked really well, too.

Then we realized that we didn't need 24" of length for saddle hunting so we cut several in half in order to make double the platforms. The shorter length definitely helped tremendously with the torque, flexing issue. It was no longer an issue and we didn't need to use the 2nd strap.
But another important benefit of camming up (like described earlier) was that since the post stayed engaged with the tree better when we redistribute our weight, it stayed locked tightly against the tree.
I've never had one of these platforms slide sideways on the tree, but I have seen the support post get "off" the crown of the circumference of the tree. You really want that post to remain directly under the side-to-side center of the platform.

One other possible issue, that I've never experienced, but it is possible is a "trap-door". If the post were to slip out then the platform would trap-door beneath you. that issue is easily remedied with a short safety cord that runs from the bottom of the post and connects to the underside of the platform. I made short whoopee slings from 1/8" Amsteel which allow unlimited adjustments the post's angle so I can change the amount of "level" of the platform, yet still insure that post slippage will never occur.

One critical detail about setting these stands is to NOT go past 90 degrees when camming (up or down). As we cam, the chain (strap, or rope, etc) gets tighter and tighter which is desired because it locks the stand rock solid on the tree. The peak of that amount of tightness occurs when the camming is completed just short of 90 degrees. At ~91 degrees and after, the attachment actually starts getting less tight.
Know just how tight to set the chain/strap prior to the cam is an important detail to insure a tight set. If you start out with the chain too tight, you won't be able to complete the cam. And if you start out too loose, obviously you won't get a tight set. There is a bit of a learning curve to becoming efficient at setting these. We've never used cam straps for the main strap, but I'm pretty sure that type of attachment would be the fastest and easiest to obtain the proper length prior to the cam. Chains are heavy, noisy, but they are bomb proof, squirrel proof and theft resistant, but they don't allow minute adjustments because you only have a fixed few links that can work, if I'm explaining that clearly. A high quality cam strap or amsteel (daisy chain, truckers hitch, timber hitch) attachment is more adjustable than chain. I have a few hanging with 1/8" amsteel daisy chain, and a few with 1/4" amsteel timber hitch, and even 1/4" whoopee slings they all work okay but I'm convinced that a strong, high quality cam strap would be the most user-friendly attachment system, but for long term, pre sets when we we might want leave the stand in the tree for months or years, chain is still the most dependable.

Getting back to the direction of the cam...
I think most of us saddle hunters agree that platforms are a bit more comfortable if they are set to lean slightly away (downward) from the tree, especially for leaners ("leaners", meaning the hunter is leaning, not meaning the tree is leaning).
Camming up allows us the stop short of the 90 degrees for more comfortable footing while maintaining a tight set. If we tried to set the platform less that level with a downward cam then we wouldn't have quite as tight of a set and side pressure could possible be an issue.

One last thing I will mention about something I've done with a cam-down set attached chain-style...
After setting the stand, I would attach a short bungee cord to the chain, and I'd run it around the front of the tree. The purpose of that was to allow the platform to be folded up against the tree when not in use. The bungee would keep the chin tight and in place, enough that the chain would remain in the proper position. The purpose of wanting to fold up the platform was to help keep the leaves off of it during leaf drop. Climbing up to hunt only to have to remove dozens of dry, noisy leaves tangled in the grating was a detail that was not desirable. Folding the stand up also makes it harder to see by would-be thieves of squatters. And I swear that some mature bucks in high pressure areas have learned what a stand is and they avoid it.
 
krub6b said:
If you need another oversized gorilla to sign an NDA and stress test prototypes I'm available. Pretty excited to see how this turns out. At 15 x 15 I'm not sure anything but straight edges are necessary, there's quite a bit of real estate to use at that size. 12 x 12 or so and I'd probably be interested in having so geometry to work with, but I don't have a shape in mind for that.
Click to expand...

i'd just make sure there's something on the sides for traction (bumps, etc) so that you don't slide on a flat edge if you have a little mud on your boots
 
Allegheny Tom said:
How well it handles side pressure is a combination of factors. Keep in mind that we made these platforms from the size of that grating (from scrapping a factory) that was available to us and size definitely has a bearing on how well it handles side pressure. The original pieces were 12" wide x 24" long. We used those long before we started using saddles so side pressure did not come into play. When we started saddle hunting, we discovered that the 24" length would create too much torque leverage on the platform when we would put all of our weight out on one of the corners. The support post would actually shift, and sometimes shift to the point that it seemed like it could actually slip off the side of the tree (YIKES!). We solved that by adding a 2nd strap around the tree and attached it at the base of the post. The secondary strap was just a cheap cam strap, but 7/64" Amstel daisy chain trucker's hitch worked really well, too.

Then we realized that we didn't need 24" of length for saddle hunting so we cut several in half in order to make double the platforms. The shorter length definitely helped tremendously with the torque, flexing issue. It was no longer an issue and we didn't need to use the 2nd strap.
But another important benefit of camming up (like described earlier) was that since the post stayed engaged with the tree better when we redistribute our weight, it stayed locked tightly against the tree.
I've never had one of these platforms slide sideways on the tree, but I have seen the support post get "off" the crown of the circumference of the tree. You really want that post to remain directly under the side-to-side center of the platform.

One other possible issue, that I've never experienced, but it is possible is a "trap-door". If the post were to slip out then the platform would trap-door beneath you. that issue is easily remedied with a short safety cord that runs from the bottom of the post and connects to the underside of the platform. I made short whoopee slings from 1/8" Amsteel which allow unlimited adjustments the post's angle so I can change the amount of "level" of the platform, yet still insure that post slippage will never occur.

One critical detail about setting these stands is to NOT go past 90 degrees when camming (up or down). As we cam, the chain (strap, or rope, etc) gets tighter and tighter which is desired because it locks the stand rock solid on the tree. The peak of that amount of tightness occurs when the camming is completed just short of 90 degrees. At ~91 degrees and after, the attachment actually starts getting less tight.
Know just how tight to set the chain/strap prior to the cam is an important detail to insure a tight set. If you start out with the chain too tight, you won't be able to complete the cam. And if you start out too loose, obviously you won't get a tight set. There is a bit of a learning curve to becoming efficient at setting these. We've never used cam straps for the main strap, but I'm pretty sure that type of attachment would be the fastest and easiest to obtain the proper length prior to the cam. Chains are heavy, noisy, but they are bomb proof, squirrel proof and theft resistant, but they don't allow minute adjustments because you only have a fixed few links that can work, if I'm explaining that clearly. A high quality cam strap or amsteel (daisy chain, truckers hitch, timber hitch) attachment is more adjustable than chain. I have a few hanging with 1/8" amsteel daisy chain, and a few with 1/4" amsteel timber hitch, and even 1/4" whoopee slings they all work okay but I'm convinced that a strong, high quality cam strap would be the most user-friendly attachment system, but for long term, pre sets when we we might want leave the stand in the tree for months or years, chain is still the most dependable.

Getting back to the direction of the cam...
I think most of us saddle hunters agree that platforms are a bit more comfortable if they are set to lean slightly away (downward) from the tree, especially for leaners ("leaners", meaning the hunter is leaning, not meaning the tree is leaning).
Camming up allows us the stop short of the 90 degrees for more comfortable footing while maintaining a tight set. If we tried to set the platform less that level with a downward cam then we wouldn't have quite as tight of a set and side pressure could possible be an issue.

One last thing I will mention about something I've done with a cam-down set attached chain-style...
After setting the stand, I would attach a short bungee cord to the chain, and I'd run it around the front of the tree. The purpose of that was to allow the platform to be folded up against the tree when not in use. The bungee would keep the chin tight and in place, enough that the chain would remain in the proper position. The purpose of wanting to fold up the platform was to help keep the leaves off of it during leaf drop. Climbing up to hunt only to have to remove dozens of dry, noisy leaves tangled in the grating was a detail that was not desirable. Folding the stand up also makes it harder to see by would-be thieves of squatters. And I swear that some mature bucks in high pressure areas have learned what a stand is and they avoid it.
Click to expand...
I'll be sure to ask you to write the user manual! Or ill just borrow half of what you've written here!
I'm not claiming original concept, just original design and then only an extremely light, modified, and modern version....hopefully sooner than later.
 
Samcirrus said:
I'll be sure to ask you to write the user manual! Or ill just borrow half of what you've written here!
I'm not claiming original concept, just original design and then only an extremely light, modified, and modern version....hopefully sooner than later.
Click to expand...

now I get it....was confused
 
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