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Pods

I oppose legalization/regulation of anectine pods in conjunction with standard broadheads for huntin

  • Yay

    Votes: 25 38.5%
  • nay

    Votes: 25 38.5%
  • Uncertain

    Votes: 11 16.9%
  • Wait...pods aren't legal?

    Votes: 4 6.2%

  • Total voters
    65
I haven’t taken the time to consider your first two sentences because the rest of your paragraph (which sums up my opinion well) makes it a non starter for me.

So you're unsure about this:

"If I understand you correctly, you don't seem to have any problem with pod usage personally. You haven't indicated that you feel it's inherently "unsportsmanlike" or that it would actually lead to increased suffering of deer."

but good on this:

"It seems your sticking point is negative public perception being used to politically harm sportsmen. You feel that the average person has a thought in their head that, "poison arrows are cruel" and that, "hunting is ok, i guess, as long as it's not cruel." And you feel that it's low hanging fruit for antis to jump on legalization of pods, and that the average person, who doesn't really care to learn and who already has that negative bias, would be prone to agreeing and potentially taking action against hunting, or at least not actively support it. You feel that any potential positives realized are offset by that potential, and that given the technology we already have, there's no reason to add pods to the arsenal."

For what it's worth, I agree with you on some points. There's a popular conception that poison arrows are cruel. People do oppose cruelty. "Antis" do play on emotions to get people on their side. And most people don't like to think any harder than they have to unless it's on their terms.

I think where we diverge is which way the nonhunting public generally leans, and how people react to information.

First, I'd argue that the nonhunting public leans heavier towards hunting than against it. Like I said, most people eat meat and wear/use animal products, and they don't particularly cotton towards individuals screaming at them about being murderers. There are plenty of video games, shows, fiction books, movies, etc...that portray hunters in positive lights. And there are comparatively less where the vegan is the hero. The Joe Rogan Experience is the world's most popular podcast and while I don't really care for him, he's pro-hunting. Trophy hunting is kinda ebbing, and you can see that even in hunting ranks, but people who traditionally have been "meh" on hunting are getting interested in the idea of non-GMO, free range, pesticide and steroid free venison. I don't think we're teetering on the edge of having hunting banned because of public opinion. I think the bigger threat is it becoming unfeasible given the people and acreage we have, but that's for another day.

But poison arrows is still a nasty word. So don't use it. Call it what it is. It's an anectine pod attached behind a broadhead. A fast-acting muscle relaxer that paralyzes the diaphragm, causing death to the brain due to lack of oxygen. It does the same thing a broadhead does, and it does it roughly as well. If a deer takes a step, or an arrow deflects slightly, and the arrow catches a shoulder or hits a bit far back...an anectine pod prevents a deer dying hours later. It's like how slaughterhouses slit throats directly after using a stun bolt. If for some reason the bolt doesn't do the job...the knife prevents undue suffering.

Now, the "antis" are going to scream and wail and use the nasty poison word and try to play people's heartstrings. Not arguing there. But...faults aside...we're increasingly more educated and more fond of at least claiming to have facts and science on our side. If a nonhunter sees/hears a PETA add with Celine Dion weeping about the poisoned arrows, and mentions it to a hunting friend or family member who can tell them, "Actually, it's anectine, and it's used in conjunction with a broadhead and acts in minutes if not seconds" that's the type of knowledge that people like to repeat around the water cooler. We feel good when we can "well, actually" somebody who clearly isn't as informed as we are. But for sure that information has to be the first thing that pops up when you google it. I don't think that's hard. Antis have plenty of more pressing concerns on their plate.

If anything, I think responsible hunters can make the argument to anybody with an inclination to understand that pods are an additional expense voluntarily incurred in order to prevent suffering. Slap that on the package. Make it part of the DNR digest the year they're legalized. Talk about it on the podcasts and shows and in the articles. Interview veterinarians and surgeons who can testify to the effectiveness.

I think negative bias could be overcome, and if it was, the gains in actual vs perceived cruelty could be huge. How many threads have we read about just this year where an otherwise ethical hunter shoulder shot a deer and didn't recover it, or recovered the deadhead? This prevents a lot of that.
 
Someone with possibly overblown fears of eating something wrong (like myself) may be easier to convince than one of the trad OGs... Just saying... Lol.

Not sure why but I still don't like em. And I bought a HC mini this year so I've got no problem with the easy(well...easier) button.

Looking forward to @kyler1945 and @Nutterbuster sharing photos of their poison dart frog collections and diy frog milking pod loaders though. That's a thread I'd read fo sho.
 
If anything, I think responsible hunters can make the argument to anybody with an inclination to understand that pods are an additional expense voluntarily incurred in order to prevent suffering. Slap that on the package. Make it part of the DNR digest the year they're legalized. Talk about it on the podcasts and shows and in the articles. Interview veterinarians and surgeons who can testify to the effectiveness.

So like, make it cool to use pods?
 
Someone with possibly overblown fears of eating something wrong (like myself) may be easier to convince than one of the trad OGs... Just saying... Lol.

Not sure why but I still don't like em. And I bought a HC mini this year so I've got no problem with the easy(well...easier) button.

Looking forward to @kyler1945 and @Nutterbuster sharing photos of their poison dart frog collections and diy frog milking pod loaders though. That's a thread I'd read fo sho.

I’m bout to have a kid. I ain’t got time to milk frogs or cook meth.

Anectine would sure be a time saver if I don’t have to let a gut shot deer sit six hours or overnight. Don’t y’all want me to be a good daddy!!!!!!
 
I’ll freely admit I didn’t take into consideration how many new hunters who have never heard of pods are part of this site when I mentioned pods to begin with.

I took it for granted that the majority of the hunting demographic was at least dimly aware of what they are and the backstory.

Apologies for the assumption.
 
I’ll freely admit I didn’t take into consideration how many new hunters who have never heard of pods are part of this site when I mentioned pods to begin with.

I took it for granted that the majority of the hunting demographic was at least dimly aware of what they are and the backstory.

Apologies for the assumption.
first I thought you guys were talking about juul pods, and then tide pods, and then I googled. I'm not currently trying to ingest any of the above lol
 
I’ll freely admit I didn’t take into consideration how many new hunters who have never heard of pods are part of this site when I mentioned pods to begin with.

I took it for granted that the majority of the hunting demographic was at least dimly aware of what they are and the backstory.

Apologies for the assumption.

I don't think it's just new hunters. Pods in my understanding are a very deep south swamp hunter thing.
 
So you're unsure about this:

"If I understand you correctly, you don't seem to have any problem with pod usage personally. You haven't indicated that you feel it's inherently "unsportsmanlike" or that it would actually lead to increased suffering of deer."

but good on this:

"It seems your sticking point is negative public perception being used to politically harm sportsmen. You feel that the average person has a thought in their head that, "poison arrows are cruel" and that, "hunting is ok, i guess, as long as it's not cruel." And you feel that it's low hanging fruit for antis to jump on legalization of pods, and that the average person, who doesn't really care to learn and who already has that negative bias, would be prone to agreeing and potentially taking action against hunting, or at least not actively support it. You feel that any potential positives realized are offset by that potential, and that given the technology we already have, there's no reason to add pods to the arsenal."

For what it's worth, I agree with you on some points. There's a popular conception that poison arrows are cruel. People do oppose cruelty. "Antis" do play on emotions to get people on their side. And most people don't like to think any harder than they have to unless it's on their terms.

I think where we diverge is which way the nonhunting public generally leans, and how people react to information.

First, I'd argue that the nonhunting public leans heavier towards hunting than against it. Like I said, most people eat meat and wear/use animal products, and they don't particularly cotton towards individuals screaming at them about being murderers. There are plenty of video games, shows, fiction books, movies, etc...that portray hunters in positive lights. And there are comparatively less where the vegan is the hero. The Joe Rogan Experience is the world's most popular podcast and while I don't really care for him, he's pro-hunting. Trophy hunting is kinda ebbing, and you can see that even in hunting ranks, but people who traditionally have been "meh" on hunting are getting interested in the idea of non-GMO, free range, pesticide and steroid free venison. I don't think we're teetering on the edge of having hunting banned because of public opinion. I think the bigger threat is it becoming unfeasible given the people and acreage we have, but that's for another day.

But poison arrows is still a nasty word. So don't use it. Call it what it is. It's an anectine pod attached behind a broadhead. A fast-acting muscle relaxer that paralyzes the diaphragm, causing death to the brain due to lack of oxygen. It does the same thing a broadhead does, and it does it roughly as well. If a deer takes a step, or an arrow deflects slightly, and the arrow catches a shoulder or hits a bit far back...an anectine pod prevents a deer dying hours later. It's like how slaughterhouses slit throats directly after using a stun bolt. If for some reason the bolt doesn't do the job...the knife prevents undue suffering.

Now, the "antis" are going to scream and wail and use the nasty poison word and try to play people's heartstrings. Not arguing there. But...faults aside...we're increasingly more educated and more fond of at least claiming to have facts and science on our side. If a nonhunter sees/hears a PETA add with Celine Dion weeping about the poisoned arrows, and mentions it to a hunting friend or family member who can tell them, "Actually, it's anectine, and it's used in conjunction with a broadhead and acts in minutes if not seconds" that's the type of knowledge that people like to repeat around the water cooler. We feel good when we can "well, actually" somebody who clearly isn't as informed as we are. But for sure that information has to be the first thing that pops up when you google it. I don't think that's hard. Antis have plenty of more pressing concerns on their plate.

If anything, I think responsible hunters can make the argument to anybody with an inclination to understand that pods are an additional expense voluntarily incurred in order to prevent suffering. Slap that on the package. Make it part of the DNR digest the year they're legalized. Talk about it on the podcasts and shows and in the articles. Interview veterinarians and surgeons who can testify to the effectiveness.

I think negative bias could be overcome, and if it was, the gains in actual vs perceived cruelty could be huge. How many threads have we read about just this year where an otherwise ethical hunter shoulder shot a deer and didn't recover it, or recovered the deadhead? This prevents a lot of that.

I do like your optimism and agree with some of this. There’s some points I don’t but I think here’s where I am going to bow out. I’ve got a beautiful wife, a cold beer and an episode of 1923 waiting on me.
 
Many on here have stated that they have never heard of pods. I‘ve known about them for a long time, but admittedly didn’t think that was still a thing. I read the article cited earlier in the thread a few days ago. When I saw the title, It made me think of a friend I had in college in 1980 who used those things and that‘s how I came to know about them. Then I read the article. You will never guess where my college friend that used them was from? Yep, East Carrol Parish in Louisiana, the very place where those guys in the article got caught using them. I almost fell out when I read that. Makes me wonder if he was one of the ones that got caught with them. I lived two parishes west and we had never heard of them at the time. I see both sides of the argument. Right now, I think the majority of people at least attempt to make clean, ethical shots. I’m not so sure that would still be the case if they were sporting the wonder drug. In the end any use would be considered when the State Wildlife and Fisheries constructed their annual herd managment plan….just like they already do for every other wonder killer technology that comes out. So would it affect deer hunting? Maybe. Would it end deer hunting? No. There’s plenty of deer and that number will only grow as fewer and fewer own more and more of the countries land and forests. What’s Bill Gates up to now? Over 270,000 acres. That‘s the real threat.
 
First I heard of these "poison darts" AKA: Pods.

I will say that I would not use or condone using them...PRACTICE AND BECOME A BETTER SHOOTER.

Yes, things happen in the deer woods, string jumping deer, small branch not seen, misjudged yardage, ETC, ETC....ALSO happens with gun hunters.

All we can do is to become a better shooter/shots.

36583309115_fc605294f6.jpg
 
I don’t like the optics of this at all. Anyway you spin it, people will misunderstand the whole premise and default to hunting being inhumane and all that. I vote nunja!!! For many reasons and on many levels!!
 
I use it often at work before intubating a patient. That being said I wouldnt eat their meat after i gave them a paralytic. I can just see a whole lot of news stories about either hunting accidents with folks being paralyzed with their own tackle or using it on an unwanted spouse. Its not the quick kill one would imagine. Still takes a few minutes of conscious breathless suffering for the oxygen saturations to drop to lethal levels. I think I will just stick to trying for good shot placement.
 
That's a valid concern. The half-life of anectine in the animal is like 45 min, it breaks down very quickly. Humans are far less sensitive to it, during surgeries it's dosed directly into the blood stream
Lasts about 5 minutes in humans. 30 seconds if they are on meth.
 
I use it often at work before intubating a patient. That being said I wouldnt eat their meat after i gave them a paralytic. I can just see a whole lot of news stories about either hunting accidents with folks being paralyzed with their own tackle or using it on an unwanted spouse. Its not the quick kill one would imagine. Still takes a few minutes of conscious breathless suffering for the oxygen saturations to drop to lethal levels. I think I will just stick to trying for good shot placement.


Do you have any experience with ungulates who’ve been administered a dose?
 
I wouldnt eat their meat after i gave them a paralytic.
Why? Genuine question, my understanding is that the dosage required for killing a deer is much lower than the dose for affecting a human, and then the dosage only goes down with time and disbursement through animal tissue and then absorption through the digestive system of a person vs injection. But I'm curious to know more.

Still takes a few minutes of conscious breathless suffering for the oxygen saturations to drop to lethal levels.

How long does it take most of your bow shot deer to expire? A minute or less? 3 minutes? 5? How long does it take a single lung, liver hit, gut shot, or shoulder hit deer to die? Does a pod slow down the death of a well hit deer?

I think I will just stick to trying for good shot placement
I don't think anybody on the pro-pod side is arguing for using the pod in the manner you're implying.
 
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