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Point on aiming

Red Beard

Red Beard

Well-Known Member
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Question for the stickbow aficionados!

While familiarizing myself with a new recurve over the past month, I've become pretty comfortable with an aiming system where I use the tip of the arrow. My setup is such that I have a point on at 20yds. This puts me aiming 6" low at 15yds, 6" high at 25yds, and 6" high at 30yds when I anchor on my index finger instead of my regular middle finger anchor. All this has been working out fairly well. However, I feel like I'm going to be a wonked up if I shoot with these reference points all summer long and then switch to a broadhead that is longer than my field tip because it will change my reference point.

I saw somewhere that a guy wraps tape around the end of his arrow shaft. This creates a visual indicator that doesn't move even when tips are switched. Are there other methods to effectively "standardize" the reference points between tips?
 
I doubt you will have a problem going to broadheads. I had an uncle and a couple cousins that were phenominal point on shooters. They walked their face for different yardage. They had no problems shooting broadheads after shooting target points the rest of the year.
How will you orient your broadheads? 12 and 6? 3 and 9? There's probably a preferred orientation for point on aiming.
I shoot instinctive so I don't even look at my arrow.
 
Allegheny Tom said:
I doubt you will have a problem going to broadheads. I had an uncle and a couple cousins that were phenominal point on shooters. They walked their face for different yardage. They had no problems shooting broadheads after shooting target points the rest of the year.
How will you orient your broadheads? 12 and 6? 3 and 9? There's probably a preferred orientation for point on aiming.
I shoot instinctive so I don't even look at my arrow.
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Well that's good to hear Tom. May I take after them in the phenomenal point on shooter category!

And great questions. I've never oriented my broadheads in the past. Always just rotated the insert until the broadhead was completely true. Maybe there's a specific spot that will align nicely as a reference though. Thank you. I'll play around with that.
 
I was a stick bow, split vision shooter for years in a past life. I didn't run into this issue because split vision isn't as exact as a gap style of shooting and so I was able to correct just by shooting broadheads for a while. However, here's some ideas:

1. There are companies that make matching field point and broadhead sets (I just know I've seen it but don't remember names)
2. orient the broadhead horizontally and put a paint dot at the location where the tip of a field point would hit and reference off that
3. Have 2 sets of arrows, with the field point set slightly longer so that the total distance (including point type) is the same. this will obviously change TAW and FOC, but maybe not enough to matter

As far as being able to align your broadheads and also have everything be true, get a arrow squaring device (lumenok one, etc) and square your shafts (both ends) before gluing but then also square your insert after gluing. This should make insert tuning a moot point, or if you have to rotate a bit then you can keep rotating/resquaring until everything is true.

I use a silver sharpie for carbon truing and black sharpie when squaring the insert.
 
Red Beard said:
Well that's good to hear Tom. May I take after them in the phenomenal point on shooter category!

And great questions. I've never oriented my broadheads in the past. Always just rotated the insert until the broadhead was completely true. Maybe there's a specific spot that will align nicely as a reference though. Thank you. I'll play around with that.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking that if you orient a 2 blade head to 12/6 o'clock, the 12 o'clock blade might be a fairly finite aiming aid. It would reduce the gap slightly. Maybe?? IDK, because I don't gap shoot. I'm just throwing it out there for thought.
I do know that some shooters prefer the blades to be 9 and 3 because the head will not be in the sight picture on longer shots.

As far as arrow flight goes, I used to insist on 12/6 (I mistakenly assumed the arrow would be less prone to planing). But with my new arrow build, I've realized that orientation has no effect on arrow flight.
 
Allegheny Tom said:
I'm thinking that if you orient a 2 blade head to 12/6 o'clock, the 12 o'clock blade might be a fairly finite aiming aid. It would reduce the gap slightly. Maybe?? IDK, because I don't gap shoot. I'm just throwing it out there for thought.
I do know that some shooters prefer the blades to be 9 and 3 because the head will not be in the sight picture on longer shots.

As far as arrow flight goes, I used to insist on 12/6 (I mistakenly assumed the arrow would be less prone to planing). But with my new arrow build, I've realized that orientation has no effect on arrow flight.
Click to expand...
Yes I will try this
 
Allegheny Tom said:
I'm thinking that if you orient a 2 blade head to 12/6 o'clock, the 12 o'clock blade might be a fairly finite aiming aid. It would reduce the gap slightly. Maybe?? IDK, because I don't gap shoot. I'm just throwing it out there for thought.
I do know that some shooters prefer the blades to be 9 and 3 because the head will not be in the sight picture on longer shots.

As far as arrow flight goes, I used to insist on 12/6 (I mistakenly assumed the arrow would be less prone to planing). But with my new arrow build, I've realized that orientation has no effect on arrow flight.
Click to expand...

He'd have to try it out, but it seems it depends upon whether or not a shooter (with their broadhead, form, etc) can see the tip of the broadhead or just the rear corner of the broadhead (which might block the tip from sight).
 
I do a similar aiming system as you. I shoot 2 blade heads and I put my blades at 2 oclock and 8 oclock which with my bow cant has me looking down the flat side of the broadhead. It does not change my aiming. The broadheads affect on aiming depends in part on how far below your eye the arrow sits. For me the arrow sits very high and therefore the extra length does not change my sight picture. Depending on the shape of your face, the position of your anchor and the shape of the broadhead, it may have an impact. I would recommend experiementing with your broadheads to check and see what if any affect they have on you. Chances are it wont be an issue but make sure you check it. Good luck!
 
raisins said:
He'd have to try it out, but it seems it depends upon whether or not a shooter (with their broadhead, form, etc) can see the tip of the broadhead or just the rear corner of the broadhead (which might block the tip from sight).
Click to expand...

The back corner of the broadhead might end up "projected" to the same spot in space as the field point tip, so it might be tried out even.
 
raisins said:
The back corner of the broadhead might end up "projected" to the same spot in space as the field point tip, so it might be tried out even.
Click to expand...
That's what I'm thinking.
And the fine edge of the blade (if it can be seen under different light conditions) might be a more exacting "sight" than the shaft itself.
And the orientation might be best at 11/5, or 10/6, etc depending on what Tyson said. Bow cant, head position, etc might have a bearing on which orientation work best for an individual shooter.
 
While the arguments are endless about what the orientation of broadheads should be, there is a physics preference for them to be perpendicular to the bow. I understand that archers are able to compensate for bad mechanics, psychological quirks, and a host of other factors that would otherwise degrade their accuracy, but if you ignore the physics, it's just one more thing that makes arrows more difficult to control. As you release the arrow, a naturally induced flex occurs perpendicular to the bow. If you build your arrows "right" that same mode of flexing will persist as the arrow twists through the air clear to the target. That means if your broadheads are mounted vertically, that flex will be side to side and the whole flat surface of the blade will act on the wind first in one direction and then in another for the whole course of the arrow downrange. Of course, the arrow will begin to twist faster and faster, but this won't affect the relationship between the direction of flex and the broadhead orientation.

If you mount your broadhead perpendicular to the bow, the head will flex edge on to the plane of flex with almost zero sail area, so you'll get a lot less steerage from the broadhead. The forces acting on the head (arrow) increase with the square of the velocity too, so our 120 mph arrows are pretty sensitive to sail area and the worst place for that sail to be is at the front of the arrow. It's an open question whether the arrow might dampen faster one way or the other. Once the arrow is fully damped, you don't have any carving, so this issue goes away. Since the arrow starts out at maximum velocity, most of the damage is done early in the flight with the highest forces, the greatest flex, and the least stabilization. Any advantage of faster dampening that might accrue to the case with the heads vertical, which is questionable anyway, is probably swamped by the much larger forces at work early in the flight when the arrow is most vulnerable.

I have heard people prefer the vertical orientation because they like the sight picture, however.





How significant is this?
 
I appreciate dirt's input on broadhead orientation. Definitely some food for thought! As for aiming, I was just watching "The Push - A Traditional Archery Film" on youtube and he addresses the point on aiming between field points and broadheads by wrapping a strip of white electrical tape at the end of the arrow shaft and using the tape as the aiming point, not the tip of the arrow. Perhaps some more food for thought? It's near the 1h45m mark in the film:
 
I spent all winter shooting in the basement shooting purely "instinctive" (10-12 yards), actually have got fairly good (tennis ball size group) to my surprise. IS that a good group? I have never shot past 20 yards even when I was hunting with a compound.
Will see this summer how that translates to further distances, but I reaaly like just "looking" and shooting. Im curious for those that shoot purely instinctive, do you gain a few extra minutes of shooting time, right before dark?
 
bas7253 said:
I appreciate dirt's input on broadhead orientation. Definitely some food for thought! As for aiming, I was just watching "The Push - A Traditional Archery Film" on youtube and he addresses the point on aiming between field points and broadheads by wrapping a strip of white electrical tape at the end of the arrow shaft and using the tape as the aiming point, not the tip of the arrow. Perhaps some more food for thought? It's near the 1h45m mark in the film:
Click to expand...
Yep. It's a good concept. I tried a similar thing by painting a thin strip of fingernail polish around the tip. Had a hard time seeing the polish though because of the angle of my eye atop the arrow. Maybe I need to do tape.
 
Red Beard said:
Yep. It's a good concept. I tried a similar thing by painting a thin strip of fingernail polish around the tip. Had a hard time seeing the polish though because of the angle of my eye atop the arrow. Maybe I need to do tape.
Click to expand...

Neat. I haven’t tried this yet, but I was actually mulling over trying bright nail polish in my mind. Maybe a wider band of bright spray paint at the end might be more visible?

It looks like he has several wraps of tape on his arrows such that it bulges a bit. While that probably helps visibility, I can’t help but wonder what happens after shooting/pulling arrows a few dozen times. Seems to me the tape would make a sticky mess, but I haven’t tried it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have shot many critters with Simmons safaris and years ago the thought crossed my mind about effect on my sight picture as well as blade orientation.
I found neither to be of concern.

Shooting two blade out of a compound I have had arrows fly seemingly straight about 15 yards then dart to the side 8 inches. Not so much on any of my trad gear.
This applies to recurves, super curves, longbows and hybrid longbow with years worth of different arrows, weights, lengths and heads.
I will consider myself fortunate and leave it at that.

Many guys shoot better than I do.
I have always said, I respect a guys ability to tune his rig every bit as much as his ability to shoot.
They go hand in hand.
 
bas7253 said:
While that probably helps visibility, I can’t help but wonder what happens after shooting/pulling arrows a few dozen times. Seems to me the tape would make a sticky mess, but I haven’t tried it.
Click to expand...
Yep. My experience is that nail polish only lasts around 10 rounds of shooting.
 
Just thinking outside of the box...
What if you took a short piece of Teflon tape and threaded into the insert, and leave a short "tag-end" of the tape stick up on the top side of the shaft. Would it act as a visual cue and if so, would it hold up? I have no idea, just thought I'd throw the idea out there. I try not to look at my arrow when I shoot, so the tape concept probably won't be desired for purely instinctive shooting, but maybe helpful for point-on aiming??
 
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I would like to preface this by saying that I am not a trad shooter. As a kid I grew up shooting recurve and was fairly proficient, however that was a lifetime ago. Over the past couple of years I've been playing with the thought of picking one up again.

As with most things I do, I research the crap out of something before making the jump. If you haven't already check out Clay Hayes, he has a wealth of information about trad shooting and self bows. Here's a video where he touches on the subject of aiming with broadheads:
 
Another way to accomplish the teflon tape concept might be to use a little piece of high vis dyneema fishing line. That crap is highly durable and might hold up better than the teflon.
 
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