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Question for people who have short draw lengths

J

Jessek

New Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
26
My buddy got his first bow last year he has a 25.5” draw and shoots 60 pounds what is everyone using for arrows and what Do they weigh he is having issues with penetration shooting 100gr his arrows are about 400gr would switching to 125gr heads make a difference
 
First thing that needs to happen is the bow needs to be tuned. I am not saying shooting an arrow heavier than 400 grains wont help things but I hunt with a few guys with 27" draws shooting low to mid 60's draw weights and they seldom do not have complete pass thru's shooting 3 blade mechanicals and I cant think of a non pass thru they have had with fixed heads. This includes big bodied midwestern bucks and elk. 400 grains from a 60# compound will work consistently but having the bow and arrows both tuned is very important.
 
Short answer is no, 25 grains won't make any measurable difference.

1. Make sure his arrow flight is as clean as possible.

2. Shoot a quality cut on contact head.

3. Go down the Ashby route if you choose but realize there are trade offs in everything.
 
I shoot a 26” draw at 60 lb. my new arrow setup at 546 grain and 16% FOC gives me outstanding penetration compared to my old setup. And honestly, the loss of trajectory is negligible. 25 grains won’t do much for him, but throw about 250-300 upfront and I bet he’ll see improvement.
 
Bowonly said:
Short answer is no, 25 grains won't make any measurable difference.
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25 grains can make a big difference if that amount of change in weight has an effect on arrow tuning.
If an arrow is on the edge of the proper spine, that 25 grains can make a difference in whether that arrow is flying straight or not, especially at close range (before the fletching has a chance to correct paradox).
 
No matter what you decide, if you're shooting carbon arrows, be sure to nock tune your bare shafts before you do anything. It is somewhat tedious but you will be extremely thankful in the long run. My big takeaway from going to EFOC, via a heavier arrow up front (from 373grains to 532grains) with foc of over 21% is that most of these carbons fly great on the spine but off the spine, you'll be pulling your hair out thinking its your form or the tune of your bow. Trust me. Trust me. Trust me. If you don't have bare shafts, or don't feel like stripping the fletchings off all of your arrows, paper tune each fletched arrow at 7 yards by FIRST adjusting your nocks on each arrow a quarter turn until you get small tears or ideally bullet hole tears. Just try to get the smallest tears possible by rotating the nocks a quarter turn and shooting through paper for each fletched arrow until you get super small tears. Then, start your tuning process. Obviously, this is assuming you have a drop away rest which doesn't matter the orientation of your fletches on the arrow. Or get Zingers and be done with it!!
 
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Allegheny Tom said:
25 grains can make a big difference if that amount of change in weight has an effect on arrow tuning.
If an arrow is on the edge of the proper spine, that 25 grains can make a difference in whether that arrow is flying straight or not, especially at close range (before the fletching has a chance to correct paradox).
Click to expand...




You're grasping at straws.

The arrow isn't reacting too stiff on a modern compound.

Maybe more weight and foc is the right medicine for his situation but; To pretend like 25 more grains up front is going to take him from leaving arrows in deer to reliably shooting through them is a stretch at best.
 
Same dl and weight as me. I currently shoot a 540 gr, 20% foc arrow. No issues with pass though this season. I started tuning my own bow a couple years ago, and then got on the “adult arrow” train about 2 years ago. Will take some time tinkering, but I thinking he’ll enjoy shooting more once he finds that perfect arrow setup.
 
Bowonly said:
You're grasping at straws.

The arrow isn't reacting too stiff on a modern compound.

Maybe more weight and foc is the right medicine for his situation but; To pretend like 25 more grains up front is going to take him from leaving arrows in deer to reliably shooting through them is a stretch at best.
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How do we know that his arrows are not border line in the spine? That was my point about 25 grains possibly being significant. I was not saying the weight gain alone was enough to substantially increase penetration.
My point was 25 grains can effect tuning and as you originally said, an arrow has to be flying straight to penetrate.
 
Allegheny Tom said:
How do we know that his arrows are not border line in the spine? That was my point about 25 grains possibly being significant. I was not saying the weight gain alone was enough to substantially increase penetration.
My point was 25 grains can effect tuning and as you originally said, an arrow has to be flying straight to penetrate.
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We don't know the spine situation but in my experience with compounds, you can always make a stiff arrow fly. I've seen arrow and broadhead flight improve with a stiffer arrow on countless occasions but never a weaker one.

I'd like to hear more details about the set up from the OP. Fixed or mechanical, etc.
 
Bowonly said:
We don't know the spine situation but in my experience with compounds, you can always make a stiff arrow fly. I've seen arrow and broadhead flight improve with a stiffer arrow on countless occasions but never a weaker one.

I'd like to hear more details about the set up from the OP. Fixed or mechanical, etc.
Click to expand...

With a release, d loop, and drop away rest, this is my experience as well. They are incredibly forgiving and one reason that carbon shafts come in fewer spines than aluminum arrows did and why the recommendation is "when in doubt, go to the next stiffest spine". This is my experience running standard inserts and 100 to 125 grain points though, I have no idea what happens once you start front loading the arrow in order to "break its back" on purpose.
 
I have a short draw length. 26 with a compound and 25 with a Tradbow. With a 26DL compound I was shooting 70#s and trying to get every FPS I could out of my setup within reason. So I was shooting 500s with a 100gr mechanical. And it was tuned shooting about 280fps. I could break ribs for pass thrus and exit a shoulder with the arrow falling out a few jumps later.
Didn’t get into heavy arrows until I went to Tradbows and my 25in DL really slowed things down. That’s when I really started to worry about the needs for penetration. Went to a cut on contact broadhead and close to a 600gr arrow that only flies about 145fps but I haven’t checked that in years.
If I was to go back to a compound, I would probably shoot the same arrow set up I use to shoot with it but change to a cut on contact Broadhead.
 
He shoots the Hoyt powermax 25.5” draw 60lb Easton bloodline 400 spine drop away rest paper tuned slick trick fixed blades bare shaft tuned he has not shot a deer yet but he nervous according to the Easton chart his arrows are over spined the chart says he should be shooting a 540 spine
 
Standard inserts, brass or steel? What length are the arrows cut? Vanes or feathers? Regular nocks or lighted? All of those things can affect FOC and dynamic spine. The 400's probably are stiff based on the charts but there are several ways to work with that and imo, it is better to start with a stiff shafts and adjust accordingly than to try to make a weak shaft work. He will not have any issues with game penetration due to draw weight and draw length given a well setup and tuned bow and arrow. Plenty of ladies with shorter draws and less draw weight shooting thru deer and elk for him to worry about it.
 
Sounds like it's tuned for good arrow flight so that answers the spine question. I wouldn't pursue the 540's. Again, in my mind hunting arrows can be under spined but not over spined on a modern compound.

You said he had trouble with penetration but hasn't shot a deer yet? As in, he's just worried about how much penetration he might get?
 
My son is shooting a diamond edge, 25in DL at 35-40#s. Easton axis 500s tuned with a 200gr VPA 2 blade. Got a shot at a young doe this year and hit high near the top of the shoulder blades. Couldn’t find the deer or arrow but got pics of the deer later with a hole through the top of each shoulder. Not even walking with a limp in the trail cam videos. It was a 10-15 yard shot. And he was 15ft high.
 
Bowonly said:
Sounds like it's tuned for good arrow flight so that answers the spine question. I wouldn't pursue the 540's. Again, in my mind hunting arrows can be under spined but not over spined on a modern compound.

You said he had trouble with penetration but hasn't shot a deer yet? As in, he's just worried about how much penetration he might get?
Click to expand...

You got the over vs under spined backward per your previous comment.
 
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