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Questions for John eberhart

Saddle Assassin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
221
Location
Somewhere out there
John after reading some of your kill post about terrain and security cover. Could you go into a little detail on what you like to look for in this case. Do you start with aerial photos first to narrow some places down. Does this cover change through out the year or do you think good thick cover that holds thru outbthe year is the best places to find a buck no matter what.
Thanks in advance
 
SA

First of I must say that the type and quantity of hunting pressure within the entire core area of where a mature buck resides and moves in has a ton to do with the type of security cover he may require to bed in or transition through during daylight. Hunters that pay attention to TV and video personalities, most writers, and like style hunters that exclusively hunt in managed areas, need to quit doing that because they have totally screwed up everything concerning security cover requirements because they hunt in areas with kill criteria's either in the form of age class or antler size.

A buck fortunate enough to have survived 2 antlered deer seasons in a heavily hunted area where nearly all hunters are targeting any legal antlered buck, is going to move very little during daylight hours during season and is going to require much more security cover for where he beds and areas he transitions through during daylight hours as he's likely been wounded before or shot at.

Bucks in managed areas with kill criteria's typically don't get shot at until they are at least 3 1/2 years old so they have had no negative consequences with any previous hunter encounters so they require less security cover to both bed in and transition through and they definitely move much more frequently during daylight hours and through much more open ground.

So your question has to be based on your areas amount of and type of hunting pressure.

Concerning aerials they are extremely vague and to me they act as a simple scouting reference and as a good map to mark my locations and entry and exit routes on. The same TV, video, writers, managed area hunters, etc. that hunt micro-managed areas put a lot into aerials as for them they show points, openings, funnels, etc. and because the mature bucks they hunt are rather stupid when compared to a mature buck residing in a heavy consequential hunting pressured area, they use all the typical points, openings, funnels, etc. because they don't fear as much with their movements during daylight.

The best way to describe the consequential hunting pressure thought process is to relate it to you. As an adult you feel comfortable moving after dark in areas that you know are safe just as mature deer feel comfortable moving during daylight in areas where they have grown up feeling safe. Now lets throw in known danger. Would you walk through a crime-laden inner city neighborhood in Detroit or Chicago in the middle of the night knowing what the potential consequences might be? Likely not. You know to avoid places where the history of danger is high. Just as the feeling of vulnerability affects your security precautions and movement habits, so does heavy consequential hunting pressure affect mature bucks daytime movement habits, survival rates, how they react to hunter tactics, when and how they socially interact with other deer within their core area, and where and especially when they make or re-visit signposts.

Unlike competitive sports where all participants compete on the same playing field or under the same exact circumstances, in our countries vast whitetail landscape the playing fields (hunting properties) and circumstances (consequential hunting pressure) are far from equal. Bowhunters should be cognizant of the undisputed differences and know the amount and type of hunting pressure their area receives before considering instructional information from any so-called expert, including myself.

So I need to know a little more info like what state are you in, what's the general hunting pressure in the area, is there any large managed properties with kill criteria's bordering you, and what is the general make-up of the property you hunt (swamp, timber, crops, hills, etc.).
 
The best way to describe the consequential hunting pressure thought process is to relate it to you. As an adult you feel comfortable moving after dark in areas that you know are safe just as mature deer feel comfortable moving during daylight in areas where they have grown up feeling safe. Now lets throw in known danger. Would you walk through a crime-laden inner city neighborhood in Detroit or Chicago in the middle of the night knowing what the potential consequences might be? Likely not. You know to avoid places where the history of danger is high. Just as the feeling of vulnerability affects your security precautions and movement habits, so does heavy consequential hunting pressure affect mature bucks daytime movement habits, survival rates, how they react to hunter tactics, when and how they socially interact with other deer within their core area, and where and especially when they make or re-visit signposts.
John, you truly have a gift for communicating your thoughts to others. Every time you post I pick up another example of what goes on in your head. I think this is an amazing analogy! Thanks for sharing!
 
John
Thanks for replying. I am in Ohio as well. I hunt mostly public and some little private but it might as well be public lol. Most of the terrain goes from anything from big hills to flat farm ground will little wood lots and it a mix of all going on at once. Typical Midwest ground I guess you can say.
I would agree that most of so called funnels that stand out on maps are useless but great in a sense because that is where most of the pressure is and it helps to mark those spots off fast. I stick to cover and it terrian edges and found that seems to work ok if you know there is a buck using it but a lot of off season scouting has to take place for me to find this and then it comes to timing. Just because it is great cover does mean they use it all the time but maybe I am wrong or going about it wrong. I guess I'm the way of maps is I love them and always start there. I figured it would be a good way to see how you looked at a property for all of us see how you do it. I post a map of something random or you can of you wish. This maybe a great thing for all of us. I think a lot of times I scout with a plan then kinda get off track and don't quite narrow down the best spot and just pick a tree in hopes it works out.
 
John,
Which book of yours do you recommend for a mississippi hunter? Lots of pressure with a really long hunting season, different types of terrains with different types of hunting styles (hunters that run dogs, hunters that come out of the woods at 9 am and return at 2:30 pm, atvs everywhere, all kinds of pressure). I hunt for older deer and enjoy the hunt and the lessons learned. I scout all year long and try to locate those areas with lease pressure but even those areas don't hold the type deer I want.
Can you recommend one that fits these situations?

Thank you,
Keith Lawson
 
John,
Which book of yours do you recommend for a mississippi hunter? Lots of pressure with a really long hunting season, different types of terrains with different types of hunting styles (hunters that run dogs, hunters that come out of the woods at 9 am and return at 2:30 pm, atvs everywhere, all kinds of pressure). I hunt for older deer and enjoy the hunt and the lessons learned. I scout all year long and try to locate those areas with lease pressure but even those areas don't hold the type deer I want.
Can you recommend one that fits these situations?

Thank you,
Keith Lawson

I have read all of John's books and no one book is a definitive guide to one particular area imho!! I will go out on a limb and correct me if i am wrong but John's books are geared more universally for all hunters hunting public and or private lands to better understand whitetails. He touches on his year round strategies in pursuit of trophy whitetails. I personally would advocate reading all the books as they have fostered my hunting and my approach to hunting.
 
SA - Every year I do seminars at either the Wisconsin, Michigan, or Ohio Deer & Turkey Expo's and this March will be doing 5 at the Ohio Expo in march. They are all 1 hour seminars on bowhunting pressured whitetails and are extremely vague.

Also did 2 day long (9am to 6 pm) workshops 2 years ago and it's really tough to get people to attend a workshop that lasts that long (doubt I would). Had about 10 hunters at each at a cost of $250 per and it didn't cover the advertising or facility so I squelched them going forward.

About 15 years ago did a field seminar with about a 2 hour seminar followed by a walk through the woods (I'd never been there before) at the conservation club looking at old sign and terrain features and having hunters choose the trees they would prepare for each differing location. Ended with me freelance preparing a tree for a harness system and pretending differing scenarios of how to move around the tree for shots and hiding. Had 29 attendees at $35 per and that included lunch. Was a great event and I loved the woods part as did everyone else. Was shocked at how many differing opinions there were on which trees to prepare at differing locations.

Autumnrider

While I definitely appreciate MCDM's endorsement of all 3 books, they have a lot of similar information and if I had to choose only one, it would be the latest one (Bowhunting Whitetails the Eberhart Way) as it has the best and most up to date scent control regiment chapter (they all have one). MCDM is also correct in that every book attempts to cover most hunter situations in heavily pressured areas. I've never had to deal with deer hunting dogs so can't intelligently speak or write about that. Hunting pressure is universal, however I try to touch on differing terrain features such as timber areas, ag areas, and a mix of both. Precision Bowhunting would be my second choice.
 
SA - Every year I do seminars at either the Wisconsin, Michigan, or Ohio Deer & Turkey Expo's and this March will be doing 5 at the Ohio Expo in march. They are all 1 hour seminars on bowhunting pressured whitetails and are extremely vague.

Also did 2 day long (9am to 6 pm) workshops 2 years ago and it's really tough to get people to attend a workshop that lasts that long (doubt I would). Had about 10 hunters at each at a cost of $250 per and it didn't cover the advertising or facility so I squelched them going forward.

About 15 years ago did a field seminar with about a 2 hour seminar followed by a walk through the woods (I'd never been there before) at the conservation club looking at old sign and terrain features and having hunters choose the trees they would prepare for each differing location. Ended with me freelance preparing a tree for a harness system and pretending differing scenarios of how to move around the tree for shots and hiding. Had 29 attendees at $35 per and that included lunch. Was a great event and I loved the woods part as did everyone else. Was shocked at how many differing opinions there were on which trees to prepare at differing locations.

Autumnrider

While I definitely appreciate MCDM's endorsement of all 3 books, they have a lot of similar information and if I had to choose only one, it would be the latest one (Bowhunting Whitetails the Eberhart Way) as it has the best and most up to date scent control regiment chapter (they all have one). MCDM is also correct in that every book attempts to cover most hunter situations in heavily pressured areas. I've never had to deal with deer hunting dogs so can't intelligently speak or write about that. Hunting pressure is universal, however I try to touch on differing terrain features such as timber areas, ag areas, and a mix of both. Precision Bowhunting would be my second choice.

If you read one you will probably want to read them all. Yes they are somewhat repetitive but that reinforces the hunting concepts.
What we read on this site can be repetitive but that simple reinforces ideas as valid


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I two have all of johns books and DVDs but the lastest one from Chris. They are and all around good book for everyone even for non saddle hunters. But sometimes reading a book it still can be hard to get a since of what is being said. John I may have to come to the expo this year I have not been in years as most of the stuff there doesn't pertain to the man that has to hunt public or private and can't or want to do plots. I am not into the latest deer crack that doesn't work. Are the seminars the same each day. Prob be a Saturday when I could come. I understand the workshop problems. I think if you did that again I would do more maps and then go out and scout it and pick and area. Picking the right tree really comes with experience and not two guys would pick the same tree. But it would at least get a guy in the right direction to looking at the right features. If you change mind on that please let me know. I would love to see how you break it down.
 
I think Chris did a great job in his book and I wish he would write several more. What is interesting about Chris's book is what he does when he comes to a new area and manages to figure it out enough to get on top of nice bucks rather quickly. Plus it is a very entertaining book to read from the story stand point. I'd recommend it along with John's.

John's books have changed my approach to hunting and broke me from my routine slump. They are a good field manual set to read, apply and fall back on when things aren't going as planned. The dvd sets are great to put a visual on what the books talk about. Overall I'd buy them all, hell it's probably the cheapest thing in hunting you could spend money on.
 
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