Rappelling 101

[dalton916]

No, I’m currently using a beal Jammy, but my 6mm TRC came in today so I’m going to give that a try.

The Jammy works fine, I just don’t like the bulk of the sewn eye.

 

[Tr33_n1nj@]

No, I’m currently using a beal Jammy, but my 6mm TRC came in today so I’m going to give that a try.

The Jammy works fine, I just don’t like the bulk of the sewn eye.

you don’t like the bulk of the sewn eye vs the bulk of a knot? I use TRC in a distel on my tether and it works great for that I was going to have a different rope / setup just to rapel.

My plan was to use hollow block on Oplux. Is there a reason people are using the Beal Jammy other than price?

 

[dalton916]

you don’t like the bulk of the sewn eye vs the bulk of a knot? I use TRC in a distel on my tether and it works great for that I was going to have a different rope / setup just to rapel.

My plan was to use hollow block on Oplux. Is there a reason people are using the Beal Jammy other than price?

It’s really length more than bulk and it is an issue on the tether connection only. It makes it too long for my likening. I prefer a lower tether height and the length of the stitched area minimizes how short I can make it.

For an autoblock it works fine. Actually, better than fine as you want some extra length on the autoblock so you have room to move the rope away from your body to speed up the descent.

But I think the real issue is if I finally settled on something and stuck with it then what would I buy??? @DanO’s family has to eat too ya know.....

 

[GTel]

Thanks for all the great info! Couple follow up questions, if you don't mind.

Any reasons you use the dual rope ATC-XP instead of the single rope ATC Sport which is says its the single rope version of the ATC-XP?

The specs on the Black Diamond site say the Sport supports 9-11mm rope but EVERY company selling it says it supports the same 7.7-11mm rope as the XP model. Did the Sport used to support the smaller rope and Black Diamond changed their mind?? Or a typo on their site? I'll reach out to them directly if no one else here ever has.

Anyone know what cord is used for the prusik knot that comes with the Samson predator tether from Aero Hunter? It looks to be about the same diameter as the jammy. I'll reach out to them directly if no one here knows.

Why are some folks carrying 40'+ of rappel line? If you're climbing up about 20' and you use < 10' feet for the figure 8 and girth hitch around the tree, would 30' be plenty? Or are some of you just climbing higher than that in really large diameter trees and want to make sure you always have more than enough?

Based on the specs and experience of others, I'm thinking the ATC Sport with 30' of oplux and the Sterling hollow block for the French prusik autoblock are the way I want to go. Or tell me otherwise?

I'm also planning to use the same rope for tether and rappelling, using a beal jammy prusik as my tether point at height. Is there any issue with leaving this prusik connected to my bridge while rappelling, as long as I slide it down to just above the ATC and keep it loose with my left hand during descent? I'm thinking it would make a great backup, should anything go with the autoblock or ATC.

Disclaimer: I've rappelled many times at gyms, resorts and firefighter training, just looking to find out what gear works best with each other for this application. And all my trees are preset with bolts so I already have a backup method to get down, I'm just looking to eliminate climbing down with the linesmans. Plus it's just awesome to rappel.

Sent from up in a tree

 

[bj139]

Thanks for all the great info! Couple follow up questions, if you don't mind.

Any reasons you use the dual rope ATC-XP instead of the single rope ATC Sport which is says its the single rope version of the ATC-XP?

The specs on the Black Diamond site say the Sport supports 9-11mm rope but EVERY company selling it says it supports the same 7.7-11mm rope as the XP model. Did the Sport used to support the smaller rope and Black Diamond changed their mind?? Or a typo on their site? I'll reach out to them directly if no one else here ever has.

Why are some folks carrying 40'+ of rappel line? If you're climbing up about 20' and you use < 10' feet for the figure 8 and girth hitch around the tree, would 30' be plenty? Or are some of you just climbing higher than that in really large diameter trees and want to make sure you always have more than enough?

The manufacturers do not stress the rope size and whether two ropes or one rope is used. The dual port devices can use the smaller rope if two ropes are used because of the greater friction. The single port device points out that with one rope they recommend 9mm diameter minimum. Many people here are going below the manufacturers minimum and taking the risk.

If you have 30 feet of rope there will be a time that you wished you had 40 feet. I have had that happen with my 35 foot rope. The perfect crotch may be a bit higher than you anticipated.

 

[Patriot]

If you've never rappelled I don't recommend learning via internet threads. Find a local rock gym and get the basics down. They'll likely teach you with a figure eight but most experienced climbers should be willing to show you with an ATC and autoblock (french prusik) backup. That's about as simple as it gets.

Here's your video, courtesy of Jamie Cline

1. You can do it fairly inexpensive, I recommend rope, ATC, autoblock and pull cord/carabiner.
-You'll need ~30-40 feet of static rappel rope ($0.84/foot for 9mm Sterling HTP)
-ATC $15-$25
-6.5mm prusik cord (low end) $10 or Sterling Hollowblock (high end) $18
-30’ of paracord and small carabiner, $5-$20

2. That's a loaded question. It's not hard but I've seen grown men knee knocking pretty bad. I guess a good bit depends on your confidence. If you're spiking up/down trees I bet you'll be fine, rappelling down is much safer.

3. See point one. You could do it with quality equipment with less than $60. Maybe $75 to be safe. It could get more expensive if you want to use a mechanical belay device but if you're only descending, I highly recommend the ATC/autoblock route.

Feel free to PM if you have any questions, I'd be happy to talk with you on the phone if you want.

Thanks so much for all that info. Without the mechanical devices, about how long does it take to get set up and get down from about 20 feet? Is it a longer process than climbing down or is it faster? I did some rapelling in the Marines and loved it so I think fear wise I’ll be good.

Also about how much weight does a set up like that add?

 

[weekender21]

Thanks so much for all that info. Without the mechanical devices, about how long does it take to get set up and get down from about 20 feet? Is it a longer process than climbing down or is it faster? I did some rapelling in the Marines and loved it so I think fear wise I’ll be good.

Also about how much weight does a set up like that add?

If you’re strictly talking about rappelling down after your system is connected, it may take you seconds to a few minutes to rappel down. Really depends on what you’re doing. Removing platform or sticks on the way down for example adds a little time. If you ascended SRT or with spikes then it’s a quick trip down.


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[swamp_possum]

Is there any reason why you can’t splice an eye on your rappel line to avoid the figure eight not getting snagged up on the way down?

And does anyone have any experience with the black diamond pilot? Looks like it’s a pretty good in between belay device.

 

[reggoh75]

Thanks so much for all that info. Without the mechanical devices, about how long does it take to get set up and get down from about 20 feet? Is it a longer process than climbing down or is it faster? I did some rapelling in the Marines and loved it so I think fear wise I’ll be good.

Also about how much weight does a set up like that add?

I just started rappelling this past weekend and here are the steps I take.

Remove Rappel kit
Hook line around tree
Connect ATC with Carabiner to Bridge
Connect Autoblock and Carabiner to Lineman's loop
Connect Bow to Pull up rope and lower
Connect Pull up rope to Main Line loop for retrieval
Put on my backpack
Remove tree strap to dump pouch
Hook in Linesman rope
Climb on to my lower stick
Remove tether to dump pouch
Slowly put weight on Rappel line and remove lineman's rope
Remove Platform & 1 Stick
Rappel down

It probably takes me about 2-3 minutes to do all that.
Most of those steps are required to climb down with 1 stick anyway.
The rappel is MUCH faster.
If I had to climb down 4 sticks and remove them as I climbed I probably would not bother with rappelling.

I have 30' of 9mm HTP and wish I had 35' to be honest
I would say the total system might add 1 lb or so... I have never weighed it.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

Thanks so much for all that info. Without the mechanical devices, about how long does it take to get set up and get down from about 20 feet? Is it a longer process than climbing down or is it faster? I did some rapelling in the Marines and loved it so I think fear wise I’ll be good.

Also about how much weight does a set up like that add?

Exact weight

2 pounds 7.6 oz

Includes
One mad rock safe guard
40 feet of Oplux
An auto block
A screw link
Two carabiners
A Dan O fleece bag
An a biner to attach the bag to my saddle

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[pesqimon]

Is there any reason why you can’t splice an eye on your rappel line to avoid the figure eight not getting snagged up on the way down?

A spliced eye is fine. Before splicing it, you should consider using a Delta screw link. If you do opt to use the link, you might want a smaller eye or maybe with a delta link it makes more sense to just use a poachers knot and call it good.

A delta screw link is nice because it lets you attach the rope to tree without running the whole rope through the eye. It also puts less wear on your rope.

 

[Squirrels]

A spliced eye is fine. Before splicing it, you should consider using a Delta screw link. If you do opt to use the link, you might want a smaller eye or maybe with a delta link it makes more sense to just use a poachers knot and call it good.

A delta screw link is nice because it lets you attach the rope to tree without running the whole rope through the eye. It also puts less wear on your rope.

Or a sewn/spliced eye long enough to cow hitch/lark head it to a screw link!!! that way the scew link isn't so floppy. If you are going to use a poacher's knot (aka 2 turn scaffold) it might be a good idea to add another turn and make it a true scaffold knot.

 

[pesqimon]

Or a sewn/spliced eye long enough to cow hitch/lark head it to a screw link!!! that way the scew link isn't so floppy.

Good idea! I should try that because I have a big eye with a delta link.

 

[Squirrels]

Good idea! I should try that because I have a big eye with a delta link.

I got some new rappel rope on the way to test out and I had them do a 4" sewn eye for that very prupose. Couldn't get it in a spliced eye other than naked spliced and I didn't think that would be good rubbing a tree all the time.

 

[GTel]

Any reason that you aren't using the same rope as both tether and rappel line? I'm planning on using the rappel line for both and just connecting autoblock/atc for the way down. Thinking I can hold the prusik (the one I tether to bridge with) loose in left hand as a backup while using right hand on autoblock. This would eliminate needing to swap ropes and always have you connected and under load. Or been there done that and doesn't work?

Sent from up in a tree

 

[Dylan9862003]

I got some new rappel rope on the way to test out and I had them do a 4" sewn eye for that very prupose. Couldn't get it in a spliced eye other than naked spliced and I didn't think that would be good rubbing a tree all the time.

Ordered a link today.... This stuff is never ending...LOL

 

[JCLINE84]

I love the Jamie Cline video but it didn’t dumb it down enough for me. I was really hoping he could do another one with more detail. Like an idiots guide.

I have so many videos I need to make lol. I cant find time to look up with sewing, work and school. I could make one here in the living room real quick just going over the basic setup of rope and components in detail. Might help people understand the original video better. Honestly once you get your rappel setup dialed in you'll use it a lot. I rappel down no matter what climbing method I use. Safer and easier to remove sticks or steps on the way down. Also much easier and safer than spurring or one sticking down.

 

[Homebrew454]

I have so many videos I need to make lol. I cant find time to look up with sewing, work and school. I could make one here in the living room real quick just going over the basic setup of rope and components in detail. Might help people understand the original video better. Honestly once you get your rappel setup dialed in you'll use it a lot. I rappel down no matter what climbing method I use. Safer and easier to remove sticks or steps on the way down. Also much easier and safer than spurring or one sticking down.

You forgot to add it's more fun too!

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[robstewart]

I use spurs and love them. However climbing down is more hairy than climbing up so I’m intrigued by rappelling. It is intimidating and it seems scary to try and do but so was saddle hunting at first and now it’s second nature and I love my swings and pulleys.

I’ve been researching the threads but I can’t find any posts or videos that help me truly understand. Other rappel newbs have said the same and asked for a detailed video. If someone could do that it would be greatly appreciated.

Until that day I have some questions:

1. What will it cost? Rope and devices and backup sliders, Kong’s, choys and Ruiz or whatever these widgets are?

2. How tough is the learning curve?

3. What does a basic set up consist of? 30 feet of rope (what mm?) and then what else? What’s an entry level safe set up that I won’t want to upgrade immediately entail?

Cost depends on how technical you want to get. You can rappel with just a caribiner. For added safety you can connect a prusik to the rope and connect that to a leg loop if you have one. This will work as an autoblock.

Next up you can buy a figure 8 and use that on the caribiner. Similarly you can use an ATC or similar device.

Personally I have bought a Mad Rock Safeguard to use as a rappel device as it will stop and hold without needing an autoblock on your leg.

Learning curve is easy. Watch YouTube videos and then try from a couple feet up until you get comfortable.

Personally I prefer climbing with a 30’ rope for my tether and having the ability to just come down nice and easy in the dark.


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[boyne bowhunter]

Thanks for all the great info! Couple follow up questions, if you don't mind.

Any reasons you use the dual rope ATC-XP instead of the single rope ATC Sport which is says its the single rope version of the ATC-XP?

The specs on the Black Diamond site say the Sport supports 9-11mm rope but EVERY company selling it says it supports the same 7.7-11mm rope as the XP model. Did the Sport used to support the smaller rope and Black Diamond changed their mind?? Or a typo on their site? I'll reach out to them directly if no one else here ever has.

Anyone know what cord is used for the prusik knot that comes with the Samson predator tether from Aero Hunter? It looks to be about the same diameter as the jammy. I'll reach out to them directly if no one here knows.

Why are some folks carrying 40'+ of rappel line? If you're climbing up about 20' and you use < 10' feet for the figure 8 and girth hitch around the tree, would 30' be plenty? Or are some of you just climbing higher than that in really large diameter trees and want to make sure you always have more than enough?

Based on the specs and experience of others, I'm thinking the ATC Sport with 30' of oplux and the Sterling hollow block for the French prusik autoblock are the way I want to go. Or tell me otherwise?

I'm also planning to use the same rope for tether and rappelling, using a beal jammy prusik as my tether point at height. Is there any issue with leaving this prusik connected to my bridge while rappelling, as long as I slide it down to just above the ATC and keep it loose with my left hand during descent? I'm thinking it would make a great backup, should anything go with the autoblock or ATC.

Disclaimer: I've rappelled many times at gyms, resorts and firefighter training, just looking to find out what gear works best with each other for this application. And all my trees are preset with bolts so I already have a backup method to get down, I'm just looking to eliminate climbing down with the linesmans. Plus it's just awesome to rappel.

Sent from up in a tree

I carry the ATC Sport as my backup. It works great for me. They just were hard to find for a while and I thought they were discontinued so I just refer to it as an "ATC". This will work well for you. For our purposes there's really no need for the second slot.