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Rappelling 101

smcchevy said:
Be careful with too much friction in your backup brake.

If the prussik grabs and locks down you have to re-tether and climb up the tree to get enough slack to return to descending. Don't ask how far off the ground I was when I figured this out.
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Good info. Thx.
 
dlist777 said:
I too want to start rappelling. I have been practicing in the backyard. I use an RC harness and add a runner to the belay loop to hook (via locking caribiner) into a black diamond sport ATC. I am using OpLux and a beal jammy as my backup. But, when I was testing tying the beal jammy into an autoblock, I found it didn't seem to grab well enough. I started tying the jammy into a prussik and it seemed to work better.

Question for the experienced: Is there any problem tying your backup into a prussik vs. an autoblock?
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I was going to reply but realized you don't state where your backup is. I have seen people having it above their ATC. Maybe a picture would be good?
 
I don't have a pic. But its below. I was told that above has fallen out of favor.

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dlist777 said:
I too want to start rappelling. I have been practicing in the backyard. I use an RC harness and add a runner to the belay loop to hook (via locking caribiner) into a black diamond sport ATC. I am using OpLux and a beal jammy as my backup. But, when I was testing tying the beal jammy into an autoblock, I found it didn't seem to grab well enough. I started tying the jammy into a prussik and it seemed to work better.

Question for the experienced: Is there any problem tying your backup into a prussik vs. an autoblock?
Click to expand...

No, you can use a standard Prusik. It will definitely grab more than an autoblock. I recommend trying another turn or two on your autoblock first. Even one extra turn can make a big difference on hitch performance. A Prusik can really bind up on you and become too tight.

But....there are many factors that determine how well a particular hitch will work with a particular rope. The material relationship between the two and the difference in diameter are the main things affecting how a certain hitch will perform with your specific setup.

It’s not cheap but the smaller diameter Sterling Hollowblock might be worth a try. I’ve never used one on OpLux but it works great on most ropes. It’s designed to flatten out under tension and from my experience it works excellent as a backup below an ATC on rappel.


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weekender21 said:
No, you can use a standard Prusik. It will definitely grab more than an autoblock. I recommend trying another turn or two on your autoblock first. Even one extra turn can make a big difference on hitch performance. A Prusik can really bind up on you and become too tight.

But....there are many factors that determine how well a particular hitch will work with a particular rope. The material relationship between the two and the difference in diameter are the main things affecting how a certain hitch will perform with your specific setup.

It’s not cheap but the smaller diameter Sterling Hollowblock might be worth a try. I’ve never used one on OpLux but it works great on most ropes. It’s designed to flatten out under tension and from my experience it works excellent as a backup below an ATC on rappel.


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I will take your and other's advice and give the auto block another try. I will try adding turns with the jammy and I will also try the hollow block. I see 6mm sterling hollow block. I'll give it a try. Worst case I will have just another item of gear to sell after season!

I'm not interesting in having it totally bind up on my at heights. But, I also like not falling. The old catch 22 I guess. :)

I'm not planning on implementing this season. I'll be practicing at slightly increasing heights in the off season. I use sticks to go up right now and pull them down on the way down. I don't think rappelling is worth it for that set up. But, I also have some pre-set trees with sticks that stay up all season. I was thinking about rappelling in those cases since I don't need to pull off the sticks as I go down.
 
If you are using an autoblock below the ATC almost any thin rope will work since it is so lightly loaded. The load is only as much as my one arm can hold down which is not much. The Beal jammy is overkill for this application but about 7 simple wraps and clip the end to your carbiner should work.
It can't get much simpler than this video. It doesn't even have to be dressed pretty to work. This video is not too long although I got a little bored at 35 seconds in. :grinning:
 
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dlist777 said:
I too want to start rappelling. I have been practicing in the backyard. I use an RC harness and add a runner to the belay loop to hook (via locking caribiner) into a black diamond sport ATC. I am using OpLux and a beal jammy as my backup. But, when I was testing tying the beal jammy into an autoblock, I found it didn't seem to grab well enough. I started tying the jammy into a prussik and it seemed to work better.

Question for the experienced: Is there any problem tying your backup into a prussik vs. an autoblock?
Click to expand...
I have this exact setup and have the same experience with the autoblock. It tends to slip just a little. I’m also having issues with the jammy twisting when tying the autoblock. That may have something to do with the effectiveness of it. Not a problem while descending but I need it to hold when I’m taking off my platform and stick.

I need to get this setup so that I’m using the rappel line as my tether for climbing and hunting but need to be able to tender the friction hitch for easy adjustment. Anyone tried using the diestel hitch with tender as a one size fits all setup?
 
Deerinthawoods said:
I have this exact setup and have the same experience with the autoblock. It tends to slip just a little. I’m also having issues with the jammy twisting when tying the autoblock. That may have something to do with the effectiveness of it. Not a problem while descending but I need it to hold when I’m taking off my platform and stick.

I need to get this setup so that I’m using the rappel line as my tether for climbing and hunting but need to be able to tender the friction hitch for easy adjustment. Anyone tried using the diestel hitch with tender as a one size fits all setup?
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Friction hitches have been tried to rappel down a rope and all professional climbing organizations DO NOT recommend this. Tree climbers only use a bare friction hitch for DdRT with a double rope so half the load. With a single rope the hitch can melt and slip or jam up tight. Rock climbers only use friction hitches for holding on a rope. I have practiced rappeling down from a few feet up and found out they are right.
 
bj139 said:
Go to Youtube and search for rappeling videos by certified rock climbing organizations. They are usually right. I would not blindly trust anything posted by a user who may have been shown last week how to do something and now they want to post a video.
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It's useful to start with hunting-specific videos/examples, primarily to zero in on jargon (and also specific gear examples that seem to work well) and use those to better understand what's going on in e.g. climbing videos.
 
mattsteg said:
It's useful to start with hunting-specific videos/examples, primarily to zero in on jargon (and also specific gear examples that seem to work well) and use those to better understand what's going on in e.g. climbing videos.
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What are the certified hunting/climbing sites that could be accessed to be sure it is not just some yokel demonstrating what Billy Bob showed him?
I start with the experts first and work my way to back to the learners.
People have commented on this site that they should get training before doing something new. They might as well get it from the experts, otherwise they might learn it wrong.
 
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dlist777 said:
I too want to start rappelling. I have been practicing in the backyard. I use an RC harness and add a runner to the belay loop to hook (via locking caribiner) into a black diamond sport ATC. I am using OpLux and a beal jammy as my backup. But, when I was testing tying the beal jammy into an autoblock, I found it didn't seem to grab well enough. I started tying the jammy into a prussik and it seemed to work better.

Question for the experienced: Is there any problem tying your backup into a prussik vs. an autoblock?
Click to expand...
In the auto block video already posted by @weekender21 (back third post) tells you the difference between the friction knots the ones that you use for repelling vs just holding...thats why I use a Klemheist knot it's made to release better under load than a prussik....
Also as a safety side note to anyone trying this for the first time:
Learn and practice how to foot lock the rope
Learn how to use a munter hitch, or an auto block to repell down( in the event you drop your device whether its an ATC,Figure 8,or belay device).
Please do it near the ground....it's very easy to gain confidence in any/all device while standing on the ground and leaning/walking away from the tree. Then move to a few feet off the ground each time until you gain more confidence and experience.
Here are some options in the event you drop or forget your device...

 
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Can someone recommend an ATC / tube style device that works with Oplux? Or are they pretty much all the same as long as they are rated for that size rope? Is the double ok to use with a single rope or do I need to get a single?
 
Tr33_n1nj@ said:
Can someone recommend an ATC / tube style device that works with Oplux? Or are they pretty much all the same as long as they are rated for that size rope? Is the double ok to use with a single rope or do I need to get a single?
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Black Diamond ATC Sport is a single shot that is rated for rope down to 7.7mm. Double check the specs on that but that’s my best recollection.
 
I'm including this video for all of us to see a pro climber using a variation of our system to do a clip and rip or pick off....the difference is it's a single rope running through the anchor point at the top but what I find interesting is his stopper knot tying on the way up as his safety for the way down, also what if your hunting with a friend or family and using a variation of this and they get stuck....?
 
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bj139 said:
What are the certified hunting/climbing sites that could be accessed to be sure it is not just some yokel demonstrating what Billy Bob showed him?
I start with the experts first and work my way to back to the learners.
People have commented on this site that they should get training before doing something new. They might as well get it from the experts, otherwise they might learn it wrong.
Click to expand...
Who said anything about certified?

Climbing etc. is ridiculously jargon-heavy, with cryptic manuals that half the time tell you nothing, or just give a few crappy pictograms of good/bad examples. A lot of what rock climbers do isn't directly applicable to what we do. Same with a lot of what arborists do.

To be blunt: I'm watching an REI rappel video - it starts talking about threading through a rappel anchor, hooking on to your belay loop, using the personal anchor already attached to my tie-in points on my harness to make a rappel extension. Then I hook up the rappel device to my tether! at two points (and the personal anchor looks dangerously similar to a daisy chain...obviously it's not, but I could easily see someone make a mistake there...) with a carabiner...and then grab both strands of my rope, pinch them into a bite (intentionally misspelled to make a point), wrapping a hitch around my 2 brake strands (without defining what they are)...and then to treat them "as if you were belaying". And now I'm clipping my personal anchor into the belay loop that I don't have?

That's drinking from a firehose that's telling you to use equipment that you generally won't have or want in a hunting scenario, and comparing what you need to do to something else that, if you're not coming from a climbing background, you've never done.

Best is to learn from a knowledgeable instructor. If you're going to resort to videos...start with something that has an appropriate frame of reference. If I'm not wearing a rock climbing harness, and don't have a rock climbing background - a video that tells me to hook things to connections I don't have (and don't see up in the tree either), talks about gear that I don't have (and that isn't necessarily a great choice for our application), and tells me to do tasks "like I am doing some other rock climbing task I don't know" isn't useful.

Watching that video, I'd have no idea:
  1. How to establish an anchor in the tree
  2. How to safely attach my rappel device to my saddle
  3. That it's important to keep the autoblock away from the rappel device
  4. How to retrieve my rope
I'd also have seen use of gear personal anchor) that's similar but differs in important ways from gear commonly used in saddle hunting (e.g. daisy chains) without any clear message of differentiation.

If anything start with an arborist video...but honestly starting with a saddle-hunting specific video to figure out what gear goes where and give yourself a frame of reference...and then watch rock climbing videos now that you can see through the jargon, gets you to a better space. And vet the heck out of everything.
 
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