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Red dot on Crossbow

Nutterbuster said:
I have never worried about cheek weld with the mini. Dot movement on my Burris ff3 is inconsequential for deer hunting.

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This is definitely better than the study I posted. Than you. Lol.
 
Plebe said:
This is definitely better than the study I posted. Than you. Lol.
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I don't see anything in the study you posted that isn't compatible with what @bigmike23 and I have shared. The study reported about an inch of standard and vertical deviation from the fastfire (the model I have) at 25 yards, and 2" at 50, unless my 4 month old has fried my brain. Not parallax free, but also not something I care about when hunting. That's also with the testers moving their heads "from one extreme to another" in order to to ensure "maximum parallax deviation." I've never worried about cheek weld, but I've also never deliberately shot at a deer without attempting to roughly center the dot. Playing with it in the yard, yeah, POA vs POI shifts if you make it. But it's a thing that matters on paper, not in the field. From the study:

The shooters using these optics produced a POI shift each group fired that could range from a quarter inch to two inches.

That's (if I follow correctly) the initial observation when zeroing a rifle at 24-56 yards. Yeah, that's an issue deal if you're then going to shoot out to 300 as described. But not with a crossbow. OP stated he will not shoot beyond 35 yards, and is looking at switching to a red dot after failing to acquire a deer in his scope at 5 yards. A red dot should serve him well.
 
Nutterbuster said:
I don't see anything in the study you posted that isn't compatible with what @bigmike23 and I have shared. The study reported about an inch of standard and vertical deviation from the fastfire (the model I have) at 25 yards, and 2" at 50, unless my 4 month old has fried my brain. Not parallax free, but also not something I care about when hunting. That's also with the testers moving their heads "from one extreme to another" in order to to ensure "maximum parallax deviation." I've never worried about cheek weld, but I've also never deliberately shot at a deer without attempting to roughly center the dot. Playing with it in the yard, yeah, POA vs POI shifts if you make it. But it's a thing that matters on paper, not in the field. From the study:

The shooters using these optics produced a POI shift each group fired that could range from a quarter inch to two inches.

That's (if I follow correctly) the initial observation when zeroing a rifle at 24-56 yards. Yeah, that's an issue deal if you're then going to shoot out to 300 as described. But not with a crossbow. OP stated he will not shoot beyond 35 yards, and is looking at switching to a red dot after failing to acquire a deer in his scope at 5 yards. A red dot should serve him well.
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You don’t even say what sight you have in your video. It’s just large brush strokes. All red dots aren’t equal, and some are less equal than others.

And we don’t care about inches of deviation? Yikes. As if parallax is the only factor between POA and POI. It’s additive.

Not to mention we’re applying data to crossbows that was compiled with rifles.

I’m not saying red dots are a bad choice. Might even be my choice, quite probably.

I just think your redneck revelation is lacking.
 
MIPublic said:
It wouldn’t/shouldn’t be any different in theory between different red dots right? Could you use something really small like the venom or viper (https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-venom-red-dot+reticle-3~MOA~Dot) from vs a crossfire ii or similar tube style?
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In general, yeah. The unit you linked is meant to be bolted to an adapter plate which is in turn bolted to a pistol slide, so you'd need a pic rail interface to mount to a pic rail. Not a big deal - it's what @Nutterbuster did in his video - but one more thing to buy. I've got a Burris that looks like https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-2019-crossfire-2-red-dot.html on a large-format pistol, it works just fine. Were I to mount one to my xbow, that's the one I'd use, because it doesn't have iron sights to co-witness to, I've only got one (cheaper) thing to buy, and it's all-around simpler. My hesitation with putting a pistol RDS on a xbow is that they're meant to be shot at arm's length, and bringing it that much closer to my eye is going to make the dot a lot bigger than I need it to be, whereas if I use a rifle RDS I'm in the intended use envelope, or whatever terminology you want to use.
 
Plebe said:
You don’t even say what sight you have in your video.
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Read the post again

Plebe said:
And we don’t care about inches of deviation? Yikes.
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Sure don't. And I've killed about 2 dozen deer with the mini.

Plebe said:
Not to mention we’re applying data to crossbows that was compiled with rifles.
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You posted the rifle study. Not me.

Plebe said:
I just think your redneck revelation is lacking.
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Well, it's worth what ya paid for it.
 
Nutterbuster said:
Read the post again


Sure don't. And I've killed about 2 dozen deer with the mini.


You posted the rifle study. Not me.


Well, it's worth what ya paid for it.
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The rifle study is a study, your video is not. It’s not even worth what I paid for it, the study was also free and is an actual study. I don’t care how many deer you killed with ”the mini”, that’s irrelevant.
 
DelaWhere_Arrow said:
Someone explain this please:
Shot 1 bottom right, low right. Shot 2 bottom left, low right. Shot 3 top left, low right. Shot 4 top left, bullseye to the fletches. Haven’t changed the sight since I zeroed it. Only difference between first three shots and fourth was that I was 20 degrees right of the target or so, then on the last shot I was right in line. Same distance, basically same elevation. I’m confused.View attachment 93518View attachment 93519
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My Vapor 470 will throw arrows all over the target exactly like that If I shoot it like a rifle. Which means I lay it in a rest, barely touching it and squeezing it off. It jumps too much at the shot.
I have to hold the front of bow down with slight pressure to prevent it from jumping and the groups tighten up dramatically
 
bigmike23 said:
My Vapor 470 will throw arrows all over the target exactly like that If I shoot it like a rifle. Which means I lay it in a rest, barely touching it and squeezing it off. It jumps too much at the shot.
I have to hold the front of bow down with slight pressure to prevent it from jumping and the groups tighten up dramatically
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Whoa. That makes for a …nuanced shooting experience. Good info. Thx.
 
I’m curious of the difference in shot behavior of a torqued up 400+fps crossbow versus the mini. The above post about it wanting jump giving me that curiosity.

What I know is that if you have everything tightened down on the mini properly, your rest is centered in both axes, d loop is tied from factory or repeated in right spot, and you hold it mostly vertical, it is an incredibly repeatable weapon. Regardless of grip or form or cheek weld or any of that. From 0-50 yards, with a scope that holds zero, it’s hard not to hit a target exactly where you’re aiming.

I had some uncomfortable results on with the two shots I took at big bucks with the mini and a standard scope. Enough so that I was either giving up the scope idea or giving up a crossbow all together. One was a rushed shot that I “missed” trying to get deer in scope quickly and wasn’t settled. The other I hit a branch that I couldn’t see through scope.

I swapped to the red dot, and I’ve connected on every shot since. Ranges from 20-44 yards. Having both eyes open either through the shot or at least while lining it up is a huge plus.

Assuming those big ole angry crossbows behave the same way as a mini, I can’t see how anyone would want to shoot a standard scope unless they’re shooting 50 plus yards, and have some sort of rest.

I can’t imagine anyone is going to cock a crossbow 100 times to repeat a study like was mentioned above. But I think there’s a big enough body of evidence across mini users here to extrapolate from.

I don’t know anyone who would consider hitting +-2” from their point of aim at 30 yards with archery tackle every single time a reason not to go hunting. I’d wager that half of the people on this forum who bowhunt couldn’t hit a 4” circle 100% of the time if there was skin in the game.

I also think that you’d have to try really hard to get any of the red dots I’ve put on my mini to hit outside of that with trying to shoot from some bizarre angle or head position. I’ve tried moderately hard and couldn’t.

It seems like there should be a “vendors lie about parallax” thread, that can be linked to in the “can I kill deer effectively with a red dot on a crossbow” thread. Admittedly, I’m math and statistics nerd, so I wouldn’t be able to ignore a study like that completely, and especially when considering rifles at longer distances.

TLDR: you probably stink at shooting arrows precisely. Swapping to a red dot on your crossbow will not stop you from stinking at worst, and at best may result in a marginal improvement in precision both in target and hunting scenarios.
 
kyler1945 said:
I’m curious of the difference in shot behavior of a torqued up 400+fps crossbow versus the mini. The above post about it wanting jump giving me that curiosity.

What I know is that if you have everything tightened down on the mini properly, your rest is centered in both axes, d loop is tied from factory or repeated in right spot, and you hold it mostly vertical, it is an incredibly repeatable weapon. Regardless of grip or form or cheek weld or any of that. From 0-50 yards, with a scope that holds zero, it’s hard not to hit a target exactly where you’re aiming.

I had some uncomfortable results on with the two shots I took at big bucks with the mini and a standard scope. Enough so that I was either giving up the scope idea or giving up a crossbow all together. One was a rushed shot that I “missed” trying to get deer in scope quickly and wasn’t settled. The other I hit a branch that I couldn’t see through scope.

I swapped to the red dot, and I’ve connected on every shot since. Ranges from 20-44 yards. Having both eyes open either through the shot or at least while lining it up is a huge plus.

Assuming those big ole angry crossbows behave the same way as a mini, I can’t see how anyone would want to shoot a standard scope unless they’re shooting 50 plus yards, and have some sort of rest.

I can’t imagine anyone is going to cock a crossbow 100 times to repeat a study like was mentioned above. But I think there’s a big enough body of evidence across mini users here to extrapolate from.

I don’t know anyone who would consider hitting +-2” from their point of aim at 30 yards with archery tackle every single time a reason not to go hunting. I’d wager that half of the people on this forum who bowhunt couldn’t hit a 4” circle 100% of the time if there was skin in the game.

I also think that you’d have to try really hard to get any of the red dots I’ve put on my mini to hit outside of that with trying to shoot from some bizarre angle or head position. I’ve tried moderately hard and couldn’t.

It seems like there should be a “vendors lie about parallax” thread, that can be linked to in the “can I kill deer effectively with a red dot on a crossbow” thread. Admittedly, I’m math and statistics nerd, so I wouldn’t be able to ignore a study like that completely, and especially when considering rifles at longer distances.

TLDR: you probably stink at shooting arrows precisely. Swapping to a red dot on your crossbow will not stop you from stinking at worst, and at best may result in a marginal improvement in precision both in target and hunting scenarios.
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Mic Drop!!!!!
 
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