Silencer tune?

[Red Beard]

Recently saw a response from @Scott F in the thread below (post #6) and wanted to dive into it a bit further but didn't want to jack the OP. He mentioned tweaking silencers to affect the tune of your stickbow.

So how does one go about manipulating their string silencers to affect a tune?

Your Set up..

One of the most challenging thing about a tradbow is getting everything "perfect".. This is mainly because of the lack of technological advancements involved in the shot process(cams, draw checks, release aids, etc). I figured this could be a good place to share what it working for you and may...

saddlehunter.com

 

[Razorbak66]

There are many ways to manipulate this but the way I do it is if I’m shooting up to 53# I use 500 spine shafts cut 3/4” past my shelf and if I’m shooting past 54# I’m using 400 spine shafts cut the same way I then use the heaviest insert that comes with that particular shaft wether it’s 15 to 75 grain. I then set brace height to manufacturers highest recommendation then I start bareshafting to get the arrows to tune pretty good arrow flight and in the meantime I’m listening for noise and feeling for vibration once I get the noise and vibration to the best it can at that time I then add some rubber string leaches at the 5 th location and take some shots and will move it down to 4 th locations. ( for those who don’t know what I mean you divide actual string length by 5 or 4 and even to 3rds and use that location). By now your bow is very quiet and your bareshaft should be pretty dang close like to 90% close to tune but remember the rubber silencers are heavy and will absorb quite a bit of energy from arrow so it should be weak like 11/4”from straight if your looking at it head on. I then take real wool and get a 1 1/2” wide by 1 3/4” longand wax my string heavily then insert to that location I found to be the best for that bow I shoot a few times and the wool fluffs out I trim into a nice ball finishing out to 1” to 1 1/4”or so. My bare shaft now flies to 1/2” weak which is what I want as I add my feathers it’s gonna fly perfect. At this time I fine tune my point weight I might have started with 200 grains but end up at 175 to 160 grain. My process is longer but my bows are whisper quiet. Another way to do it is tie some rubber whiskers and shoot arrows and slide up and down and see what shafts are doing and what noise levels are. I have been doing it this way for the past 30 years. Might not be the right way but definitely works for me and all my friends bows I helped tune. I’m not locked down on point weight and arrow shafts and remember when I said I set up at highest brace height I shoot and where it stretches and finishes stretching I leave it at that. Like for my DAS I start at 7 3/4” and it finishes at 7 1/4” so when I replace my string I make it to that length. I do it this way to all my bows as brace height also affects tune. Like I said many ways to do this but this is my method and if I add a quiver to bow I don’t ever need to retune for that quiver to work because your told to tune with what and how your gonna shoot but hey it works for me

 

[kbetts]

There is good info on this stuff in the archived section of Tradgang.

 

[JC3]

A couple of years ago I started using Amsteel for string silencing, because of it's light weight.
I stole the idea from a post on another site.
Using the Amsteel (2-3 pc's. of 1/4" dia. approx. 2.5" long for each puff)
The nice thing about the Amsteel is you can adjust the puffs up and down the string to find the best point to nullify the harmonics.
Start with the 1/3, 1/4 rule. 1/3 of the way down from the top and 1/4 of the way up from the bottom, you can reverse the positioning.
The idea is the has string has a certain frequency you are trying to disrupt.
Adding the puffs will disrupt the frequency and reduce the perceived sound.
Imagine a sine wave (remember your physics classes?) it is a very even wave, the puffs will disrupt the wave and reduce the sound.

 

[Red Beard]

A couple of years ago I started using Amsteel for string silencing, because of it's light weight.
I stole the idea from a post on another site.
Using the Amsteel (2-3 pc's. of 1/4" dia. approx. 2.5" long for each puff)
The nice thing about the Amsteel is you can adjust the puffs up and down the string to find the best point to nullify the harmonics.
Start with the 1/3, 1/4 rule. 1/3 of the way down from the top and 1/4 of the way up from the bottom, you can reverse the positioning.
The idea is the has string has a certain frequency you are trying to disrupt.
Adding the puffs will disrupt the frequency and reduce the perceived sound.
Imagine a sine wave (remember your physics classes?) it is a very even wave, the puffs will disrupt the wave and reduce the sound.

Amsteel puffs are an interesting idea. I assume you fray the Amsteel once it's in the proper location? I'm envisioning the final product looking something similar to what Matt did with 550 cord in one of his Push videos?

 

[GCTerpfan]

Amsteel puffs are an interesting idea. I assume you fray the Amsteel once it's in the proper location? I'm envisioning the final product looking something similar to what Matt did with 550 cord in one of his Push videos?

It actually fray's itself as you shoot it. They end up looking very similar to wool puffs but, they are more water resistant. As a matter of fact, you've held a bow with amsteel puffs and didn't know it, I have them on Connor's bow.

 

[Red Beard]

It actually fray's itself as you shoot it. They end up looking very similar to wool puffs but, they are more water resistant. As a matter of fact, you've held a bow with amsteel puffs and didn't know it, I have them on Connor's bow.

Right on. So just throw three 2.5" sections of Amsteel between the strings as the distances mentioned above and go shoot until they fray? Vonderbar!

 

[JC3]

I tie the Amsteel around the string, not between the strands, using a technique similar to tieing a nocking point.
Look up string nocking point on You Tube and tie the Amsteel around the string, using the same tieing technique.
The nice thing about tieing around the string is you can slide the puffs to the location you want.
The Amsteel weighs virtually nothing so they don't steal any speed from your arrow.
There was some realistic testing done with different silencer material and Amsteel (or any UHMWPE material) was the lightest.

 

[Razorbak66]

You can slide the amsteel in between string and shoot it without tying it in as long as you got plenty of wax before you slide in and after shooting it a little it starts to puff you can slide up and down the string no problem and it won’t come out if you unstrung the bow. I do not tie mine when I do use amsteel. I use amsteel on my longbows but use wool puffs in my recurves. Hell so many ways to silence a bow. Years ago I use to use leather strip to quiet my bows then move to rubber whiskers then to wool and sometimes the amsteel

 

[Red Beard]

So, sounds like the answer is to just slide them up and/or down the string and see what happens...

Guess I was hoping for more of a 'if your arrow is slightly weak, slide the top silencer up 1/2"' type of thing.

 

[JC3]

I have found that using the Amsteel there is little to no influence on my arrow tuning.
Razorbak66 is correct, you can intertwine the Amsteel into the string, but you have to unstring the bow to move the puffs.
I am probably not that good to notice any difference in the tune.
I am listening for sound, actually my wife (super ears) listens for me, my enlistment years resulted in major hearing loss.
Tuning can at times be a very frustrating process, but stick with it as you will learn a lot about your bow, arrows and your technique.

 

[BTaylor]

So, sounds like the answer is to just slide them up and/or down the string and see what happens...

Guess I was hoping for more of a 'if your arrow is slightly weak, slide the top silencer up 1/2"' type of thing.

It's traditional archery, why would you ever think it would be simple?

Seriously, though brace height has a lot to do tune and sound, even a quarter inch adjustment.

 

[Red Beard]

It's traditional archery, why would you ever think it would be simple?

Seriously, though brace height has a lot to do tune and sound, even a quarter inch adjustment.

Roger. I took @Scott F's comment to mean he was moving silencers to adjust characteristics of flight.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

So, sounds like the answer is to just slide them up and/or down the string and see what happens...

Guess I was hoping for more of a 'if your arrow is slightly weak, slide the top silencer up 1/2"' type of thing.

Black Widow has some info on it. If my memory serves me right, I think they said that if arrows shoot stiff, then move silencers out towards the limb tips. Its been a while since I read that stuff so go read it for yourself, but according to Black Widow the location will have an effect on arrow spine.

 

[Razorbak66]

I have found that using the Amsteel there is little to no influence on my arrow tuning.
Razorbak66 is correct, you can intertwine the Amsteel into the string, but you have to unstring the bow to move the puffs.
I am probably not that good to notice any difference in the tune.
I am listening for sound, actually my wife (super ears) listens for me, my enlistment years resulted in major hearing loss.
Tuning can at times be a very frustrating process, but stick with it as you will learn a lot about your bow, arrows and your technique.

I actually leave my bow strung and wax a little where I’m gonna move it and grab it and slide up or down and if I find the good spot I sometimes tie dental floss in the upper end of the string where the amsteel ends in case if it ever moves down ward I can slide it to that spot but I rarely have to do it

 

[paradocs]

Tom's right; theoretically moving silencers toward the limb tips would "speed up" the string at the center/nockset and "weaken" a slightly stiff arrow, and vice-versa. I generally tune silencers for quiet and use other methods to fine-tune, though.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I've always used animal hide for silencers. Beaver, otter, musk ox, etc. They look really classy on a trad bow but they are not easily repositioned unless the bow is unstrung.
I switched to the Black Widow silencers last year and I like them. Very easy to reposition them with the bow still strung. They wont hold water or burrs either like animal or wool silencers.

 

[Scott F]

Roger. I took @Scott F's comment to mean he was moving silencers to adjust characteristics of flight.

Right on. I use heavy rubber whisker silencers tied very tight to the string so they flare out. I trim them to about 1", maybe 1.5". They don't want to move, but they will if I force them.

The closer you have any mass near the center of your string, it acts like a heavier arrow and slows it down a smidge. The further away from the center, it has less effect. If your arrow is CLOSE to a good tune but still showing a little weak, try moving your silencers closer to the center to rob some energy from your limbs (as if shooting a heavier arrow). The opposite holds true as well.

This won't correct for a wrong spine, wrong centershot, other egregious issues, but it can correct minor issues if you don't feel like messing with tip weight or minor arrow cutting.

Note: I am not very sensitive to arrow speed, but I like a quiet bow. If you are a chrono-happy speed freak, well,....this Bud's not for you!

 

[Red Beard]

Right on. I use heavy rubber whisker silencers tied very tight to the string so they flare out. I trim them to about 1", maybe 1.5". They don't want to move, but they will if I force them.

The closer you have any mass near the center of your string, it acts like a heavier arrow and slows it down a smidge. The further away from the center, it has less effect. If your arrow is CLOSE to a good tune but still showing a little weak, try moving your silencers closer to the center to rob some energy from your limbs (as if shooting a heavier arrow). The opposite holds true as well.

This won't correct for a wrong spine, wrong centershot, other egregious issues, but it can correct minor issues if you don't feel like messing with tip weight or minor arrow cutting.

Note: I am not very sensitive to arrow speed, but I like a quiet bow. If you are a chrono-happy speed freak, well,....this Bud's not for you!

Thank you for explaining this in 5th grader terms! This is exactly what I was looking for.

 

[Scott F]

Thank you for explaining this in 5th grader terms! This is exactly what I was looking for.

I figured as much. Better to dumb things down on the internet as I read at a 6th grade level!
Hahaha