Tether safety backup?

[bj139]

Man, I need a full tutorial on what all is going on there! What is the orange device there called?

That is an ascender or the generic term is rope grab. It is in the same category as the Ropeman. It looks a lot busier than it really is since I run the rope back and forth through several carabiners to provide extra friction.
I can push the ascender up the rope and it grabs when I pull down and I pull myself up the rope. A Ropeman could be susbstituted and it would work the same way but without a convenient hand hold.

 

[arm breaker]

That is an ascender or the generic term is rope grab. It is in the same category as the Ropeman. It looks a lot busier than it really is since I run the rope back and forth through several carabiners to provide extra friction.
I can push the ascender up the rope and it grabs when I pull down and I pull myself up the rope. A Ropeman could be susbstituted and it would work the same way but without a convenient hand hold.

Oh I see. I think I’ve seen those in mountain climbing videos I’ve watched. What are those webbing straps you have in red and white doing?

 

[bj139]

Oh I see. I think I’ve seen those in mountain climbing videos I’ve watched. What are those webbing straps you have in red and white doing?

That red and white webbing strap is a climbing sling. It is attached to the ascender and to my bridge. It does nothing unless my belay device fails. If it does the ascender will stop me from falling. The belay device seems bulletproof but I can't be too safe. Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
The purple and white strap is another climbing sling which is my saddle bridge.

 

[arm breaker]

That red and white webbing strap is a climbing sling. It is attached to the ascender and to my bridge. It does nothing unless my belay device fails. If it does the ascender will stop me from falling. The belay device seems bulletproof but I can't be too safe. Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
The purple and white strap is another climbing sling which is my saddle bridge.

Got it, thanks so much for sharing your method.

 

[bj139]

Got it, thanks so much for sharing your method.

I usually try something I consider safe and if it works well and gives me no trouble I stick with it until a better idea comes along. The climbing sling bridge idea started with @Nutterbuster suggesting a detachable bridge so he would not have to step through a saddle with muddy boots. My sling bridge is girth hitched to my left bridge loop and the other end girth hitched to a carabiner. I run it back and forth through the bridge loops till it is the length I like (short).

 

[arm breaker]

I usually try something I consider safe and if it works well and gives me no trouble I stick with it until a better idea comes along. The climbing sling bridge idea started with @Nutterbuster suggesting a detachable bridge so he would not have to step through a saddle with muddy boots. My sling bridge is girth hitched to my left bridge loop and the other end girth hitched to a carabiner. I run it back and forth through the bridge loops till it is the length I like (short).

That seems like a great way to run a bridge as well. I had never thought about the muddy boots thing but can totally see that being an issue for me here where I usually hunt in rover bottoms. If I prefer Amsteel, does it make sense to just splice it then girth hitch one side while slicing another loop for the carabiner?

 

[bj139]

That seems like a great way to run a bridge as well. I had never thought about the muddy boots thing but can totally see that being an issue for me here where I usually hunt in rover bottoms. If I prefer Amsteel, does it make sense to just splice it then girth hitch one side while slicing another loop for the carabiner?

A Dyneema sling is made from the same material as Amsteel so it is light, thin and strong. Why complicate matters. I use a 60cm (24 inch) sling and pass it back and forth and clip the strands through the carabiner.

Mammut Contact Sling Dyneema 8.0 | REI Co-op

Leave those old bulky slings at home! The slim Mammut Contact Sling 8.0 weighs only 14g (60cm length) and has great handling characteristics to make clipping easy.

www.rei.com

 

[arm breaker]

I didn’t know that was the same material but I also have very little exposure to other climbing products outside the hunting world. That system makes a lot of sense to me and would certainly eliminate me worrying about splicing ability, as enjoyable as those projects are.

 

[SemperFlightMedic]

I appreciate the effort spent being safe. On that note though, if you understand what it would take to cause a failure in the tether, the caribiner, or the loops on the saddle, you might agree that having a backup isn’t necessary. Let’s say you weigh 300lbs, you’re rarely putting the entirety of that weight on the equipment. Even so, at 300lbs you’re only stressing the equipment at a fraction of its break strength.




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[arm breaker]

I appreciate the effort spent being safe. On that note though, if you understand what it would take to cause a failure in the tether, the caribiner, or the loops on the saddle, you might agree that having a backup isn’t necessary. Let’s say you weigh 300lbs, you’re rarely putting the entirety of that weight on the equipment. Even so, at 300lbs you’re only stressing the equipment at a fraction of its break strength.




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I appreciate where you are coming from. I think part of it for me is getting used to a new way of thinking/being in the tree. I never had two bolts in my platforms, two straps on a stick, or anything like that on previous setups so I definitely want to stop short of going overboard just for the heck of it. The more I think about it, much of concern just popped in my head when thinking about the Ropeman on the tether and how ultimately a system boil down to that in a sense. I have a good faith in the ropes and carabiners themselves. I know the issues surrounding Ropeman safety in particular has been hotly discussed elsewhere so we have no need to head that direction here, at least not exclusively. I should say that if one trusts everything but the Ropeman without duplicates, then maybe some type of prusik/tender is the way to go.

 

[gadrenalin]

I have run 2 bridges before while testing out some different designs, but not 2 tethers. I do have a stop knot at the end of tether incase the ropeman slips.

 

[arm breaker]

Conceptually, if the Ropeman fails do you expect it to not fail such that it would be intact enough to hang on at that knot at the end of the line? I’m also wondering how folks feel about the shock from the end of the slip from where one is hooked down to the know, however short it might be.

 

[SemperFlightMedic]

Conceptually, if the Ropeman fails do you expect it to not fail such that it would be intact enough to hang on at that knot at the end of the line? I’m also wondering how folks feel about the shock from the end of the slip from where one is hooked down to the know, however short it might be.

Rope is built with expansion in mind for that very reason. There’s typically two types- dynamic and static. I can’t recall specifics - it’s been many years since I did “rope stuff” before getting in to saddle by dint this year, but dynamic rope is made to stretch and absorb, where as static rope isn’t. The ropes used for saddle hunting are (or should be) dynamic ropes.


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[arm breaker]

The ropes used for saddle hunting are (or should be) dynamic ropes.

I wonder if we can confirm that about the stick ropes from Tethrd.

 

[bj139]

Rope is built with expansion in mind for that very reason. There’s typically two types- dynamic and static. I can’t recall specifics - it’s been many years since I did “rope stuff” before getting in to saddle by dint this year, but dynamic rope is made to stretch and absorb, where as static rope isn’t. The ropes used for saddle hunting are (or should be) dynamic ropes.


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I think ropes used in climbing should be dynamic but most people here don't Arborists use static rope for positioning in a tree for cutting. Kevin Bingham, the inventor of the rope wrench, mentions in one of his videos that dynamic ropes for arborists reduce wear and tear on the body from shock load. Climbing arborist on Youtube mentions this also. For saddle hunters, it probably does not matter unless we fall.

 

[GTel]

The ropes used for saddle hunting are (or should be) dynamic ropes.
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Huh. I thought it was the exact opposite and most saddles comes with static rope. Static ropes are best for SRT type climbing where you don't have slack in the line as well as for anchors/tethers/rappelling and dynamic ropes are mostly used in situations where a longer fall is more likely (and more often), like rock climbing. If you tried using dynamic for the tether, I think the stretch would throw you off a bit since you wouldn't have a solid anchor every time you sat or leaned so you'd feel it begin to tension at first but you wouldn't really know when it would stop stretching, where a static rope stops you from moving as soon as you load it. I'm pretty sure that Samson Predator that comes with Aero Hunter saddles is static as well as Sterling Oplux and HTP that a lot of guys use. Not sure what the rope is that comes with the Mantis.


Sent from up in a tree

 

[basehorhonda]

Im all for people wanting to be safe. If having a back up whatever (tether, bridge, harness, rope grab, etc) makes you feel safer while you are in the tree. Im not going to tell you not to. Personally, I have to laugh because people in one breath will talk about trying to save weight on sticks, WE steps, etc, but then when they feel they need a back up whatever, you're gaining that weight right back, and usually even more so. In my opinion, if you give your equipment a good and honest check before heading into the woods, you'll catch any problem before it becomes an issue.

As far as Static vs Dynamic, since the tree tether is labeled as a climbing rope on the Tethrd website, I would guess that it is a dynamic rope. But their people will have to confirm or deny that.

 

[bj139]

Huh. I thought it was the exact opposite and most saddles comes with static rope. Static ropes are best for SRT type climbing where you don't have slack in the line as well as for anchors/tethers/rappelling and dynamic ropes are mostly used in situations where a longer fall is more likely (and more often), like rock climbing. If you tried using dynamic for the tether, I think the stretch would throw you off a bit since you wouldn't have a solid anchor every time you sat or leaned so you'd feel it begin to tension at first but you wouldn't really know when it would stop stretching, where a static rope stops you from moving as soon as you load it. I'm pretty sure that Samson Predator that comes with Aero Hunter saddles is static as well as Sterling Oplux and HTP that a lot of guys use. Not sure what the rope is that comes with the Mantis.


Sent from up in a tree

I have used dynamic and static ropes for my tether and never noticed the difference. With 30 feet of rope up the tree I can feel the difference with the dynamic rope "bouncy bounce" and the static rope "thunk". With a 2 foot tether no noticeable difference. If I was to fall 10 feet from a tree I would rather be using dynamic rope. Starting the rope climb there is more stretch to pull from the rope at first but after that they feel the same.

 

[basehorhonda]

I have used dynamic and static ropes for my tether and never noticed the difference. With 30 feet of rope up the tree I can feel the difference with the dynamic rope "bouncy bounce" and the static rope "thunk". With a 2 foot tether no noticeable difference. If I was to fall 10 feet from a tree I would rather be using dynamic rope. Starting the rope climb there is more stretch to pull from the rope at first but after that they feel the same.

You pretty much described the difference between the two. And your right, on just a few feet of rope, your not going to feel any difference.

 

[bob1sh]

Thoughts on this setup for redundancy? I wanted to get away from the double lines of a prusik. Blake’s with a overhand loop. 8mm to Tethrd tree.

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