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The Dangers of Short Static Falls

GetHomeSafe said:
My guess is you have never built a JRB system and you have never climbed JRB. So now your a self pro-claimed expert in a rope climbing system you have zero experience in. But you trying to convince those of us with hundreds of hours of experience with the system that your "expert" opinion out weighs all of ours. Those of us who built are own system and have used it extensively. But you know more about the system you never built or used because you what, have video expertise. Really? Please tell me I am wrong and that you built and used it extensively to reach your informed position.
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I’ll PM you so joy to off track this thread.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
Yo

Ddrt is 75’ of predator rope no mechanicals needed. That’s as cheap as it gets.
SRT can be done with mechanicals but $100 for a belay device isn’t that bad. Other than that it’s a friction hitch and an additional pulley. Further more you could save $35 on rope by only using 40’ instead of 75 or 80. The distance difference can be made up with 50’ of paracord which is like $5. So the cost isn’t that different which you add all the additional hitch cord you need for his system.
If I’m climbing SRT, and I “tie” in a basal anchor, I can throw on a gri gri and a hand ascender as quickly as you tie in a garda foot loop. If I’m performing a canopy anchor it takes a few seconds longer to whip it up there but the mechanical is so much quicker than sit, stand advance, sit stand advance on hitches that I see that as a time wash.
Look I am only saying with JRB you are using hitches that aren’t tested or approved by any climbing institution orcertified instructor. The system is not a simple system and unless you hit the perfect smooth wide crotch, you’ll be tying those knots in the dark in the woods. Otherwise you’re severely limited on tree selection. I just don’t see any of the “advantages” over simple traditional rope climbing methods. Even descending now are you going down the same way you climb up or are you tying in a super Munter? (Which means you’re tying more knots in the woods which his claims are you don’t do using the system)like I said I don’t see any advantages for cost, ease of use, and the only “advantage” in safety is redundant tie in but you can do that while SRT climbing with a hitch above the mechanical and with Ddrt if my hitch messed up for whatever reason, I could still lower myself to the ground using arm strength and my tie in point as additional friction (because half my weight is supported by the friction over the crotch). Again the perception of his system as superior is just not there for me.
Anyway sorry to off track a great post about dangers of falling. I will not reply further if you guys would like we can PM to continue talking on the advantage of different rope climbing methods. Hope everyone had a safe thanksgiving
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Yes, youre correct mostly. But on JRB there is no tying at the tree, everyrhing is pre tied and the whole schtick about smooth crotch is nonsense. With JRB idc if my line goes over branches that are 10’ apart, ive never have a problem getting my hitches up and around anything, again, its pre preparation of the line to allow you to clip the hitches to he end of the rope on its respective side and pull it up using that loop. It glide over everything to say the least. I enjoyed thoroughly each DRT and SRT when i did them, but JRB is the onky one that checked all the boxes for me. 1. Starionairy rope there is no movement of rope through the crotch, 2. You dont have to be as selective with the throwball as you do with DRT bc of point #1. 3. There is no ting at the tree, and if you have presets as id imagine alot of us do its is effortless to pull rope, clip in the already tied hitchs, clip on already tied garda loop and use already tied redundant bridge for “best friend” system. 4. There are no mechanical devices, yes you can SRT without them but at that point JRB is much easier for not having mechanicals. 5. You dont even have to be near the tree to climb, ive sat for hours just out on a limb with bow clipped to saddle in a sit position using garda loop as platform. And finaly theres no extra rope or equipment for repel, munter on the redundant bridge carabiner and youre down. Theyre all good but there comes a point where JRB just is able to do it all in such a simple system. The hitches are simple, not certified yes but c’mon, its not rocket science you can literally see that the rope is binding and is far superior for moveability from loaded to moving, as long as you tie correctly and again it took no more than 4 ties following video to be able to tie by memory. Shown is literally all i need to walk up to a tree and get up to 50’ and its under 5#F5229669-582E-4788-85B9-B3FA5F79461D.jpeg
 
When I do SRT I girth hitch in the canopy, usually the trunk vs suitable limb, no basal anchor. I use 700lb paracord as the retrieval line, never once had a case where I couldn't get the climbing line down. I carry 50' of oplux/resc-tech with a friction ring on the loop and 50' of paracord, 100ft zip line and 12oz bag. If I can't get in the canopy with that I find another tree...

Instead of a belay device, hand ascender and pulley (RAD components) though, I just use one JRB hitch on my main bridge and a foot loop with the ropeman on my short bridge.

To climb I tend the foot loop to get my knees bent, hold the rope in one hand below the JRB hitch to steady myself, sometimes I'll hold above the hitch if I'm mostly hanging in free air and can't use my other foot to help steady myself on the trunk. Then stand on the foot loop and advance the JRB hitch with the other hand. Settle into the bridge to lock the JRB, advance the foot loop, grab rope, stand and repeat. No mechanical advantage, but I advance up the rope in longer strides because I'm not limited by the 3/1 ratio increments of a RAD system.

To climb this way you could effectively replace the JRB hitch with a hand ascender and accomplish the same thing with the exception of not being able to rappel without transitioning from the hand ascender to a rappel device. JRB hitch does both, so one less operation involved.

To descend you simply replace the foot loop on your short bridge with an autoblock or figure 8, slowly break the JRB hitch and rappel.

I've rappelled by breaking the JRB hitch and managing the tag end by hand(with gloves), no figure 8 or autoblock too. But don't recommend it as a standard procedure. However in some kind of emergency its possible to safely get back on the ground relatively quickly, as long as you remove the foot loop to avoid jamming into it on the way down. Just gently breaking the JRB will allow you to descend very slowly, release the break and you stop.

I think this sort of thing is good to practice at low heights as part of your self rescue regimen in case you needed to do it, like dropping your figure 8 and no extra carabiner to do a munter, etc. Even if you dropped your foot loop and the JRB hitch jammed you could tie an alpine butterfly with a loop large enough to put your foot in to unload the JRB hitch, fix it, untie the butterfly and continue on down. No extra stuff needed to get out of a bind...
 
deerfly said:
When I do SRT I girth hitch in the canopy, usually the trunk vs suitable limb, no basal anchor. I use 700lb paracord as the retrieval line, never once had a case where I couldn't get the climbing line down. I carry 50' of oplux/resc-tech with a friction ring on the loop and 50' of paracord, 100ft zip line and 12oz bag. If I can't get in the canopy with that I find another tree...

Instead of a belay device, hand ascender and pulley (RAD components) though, I just use one JRB hitch on my main bridge and a foot loop with the ropeman on my short bridge.

To climb I tend the foot loop to get my knees bent, hold the rope in one hand below the JRB hitch to steady myself, sometimes I'll hold above the hitch if I'm mostly hanging in free air and can't use my other foot to help steady myself on the trunk. Then stand on the foot loop and advance the JRB hitch with the other hand. Settle into the bridge to lock the JRB, advance the foot loop, grab rope, stand and repeat. No mechanical advantage, but I advance up the rope in longer strides because I'm not limited by the 3/1 ratio increments of a RAD system.

To climb this way you could effectively replace the JRB hitch with a hand ascender and accomplish the same thing with the exception of not being able to rappel without transitioning from the hand ascender to a rappel device. JRB hitch does both, so one less operation involved.

To descend you simply replace the foot loop on your short bridge with an autoblock or figure 8, slowly break the JRB hitch and rappel.

I've rappelled by breaking the JRB hitch and managing the tag end by hand(with gloves), no figure 8 or autoblock too. But don't recommend it as a standard procedure. However in some kind of emergency its possible to safely get back on the ground relatively quickly, as long as you remove the foot loop to avoid jamming into it on the way down. Just gently breaking the JRB will allow you to descend very slowly, release the break and you stop.

I think this sort of thing is good to practice at low heights as part of your self rescue regimen in case you needed to do it, like dropping your figure 8 and no extra carabiner to do a munter, etc. Even if you dropped your foot loop and the JRB hitch jammed you could tie an alpine butterfly with a loop large enough to put your foot in to unload the JRB hitch, fix it, untie the butterfly and continue on down. No extra stuff needed to get out of a bind...
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I appreciate you sharing that. When possible in oaks or hickories with excellent branch selections, I usually use Ddrt. Today I am in a pine forrest and all the trees are like telephone poles and there are no suitable branches to support weight and most branches are thin anf 50’ high. Ddrt or JRB for that matter would both require some sort of choker with rings to be set (some call this a false crotch). If you’re going to the trouble of a false crotch why not just SRT with a canopy anchor (like you mentioned)… That’s what we did because that’s what worked best for this scenario short of a climber platform or carrying sticks.
While I’d never suggest someone rappel on a single line using only a friction hitch without some additional friction adding device (such as a rope wrench), I think it’s important to know how to safely, slowly, and methodically do so in an emergency situation. Although even then setting the rope and using something such as a Munter or super Munter would be better in my mind.
As for hitches I believe @Brocky has a few hitches that release well after loading which would also do the same as the JRB hitch. By adding a few cross sectional wraps below a distel or schwabisch or even a Michoacán, you can also get a hitch that breaks well after it’s been loaded and will also self tend with a pull of the free end above the hitch. I believe someone posted about Wild Line Rope’s hitch being easily moved after loading. I am not advocating for any hitch in particular nor am I saying one system is better than any other. I want to be clear that every system has its flaws and there is no single rope climbing technique that checks all the boxes and anyone saying a system does everything, would be doing so falsely. Some climbing methods are advanced and having hands on training experience would be a safer way to learn. The most important factor being discussed in this thread is that we should climb and hunt in ways that minimize or eliminate slack in our system. Slack is the enemy to elevated positioning safety.
 
points well taken.

Ironically I was in a hickory last night that would have been much easier to do with a dual rope method as girth hitching among a few branches at around 40' took some time. There was noting suitable below that 40ish foot level. Dual rope could have spanned a couple crotches up there and I would have been set in probably half the time.

I do need to experiment with more hitches and will do that in the off season. For now my system in its current form works very well for me and above all is very simple and safe.

In terms if single rope descent I've even practiced rappelling with the rope around my butt and the friction hitch fully broken as though it wasn't there. Wasn't comfortable or easy, but I'm now confident I can get on the ground safely from 15'-18' that way if I needed to. I don't think you can practice self rescue too much.
 
Fell only 6 feet down a ladder once to a hardwood floor and landed on both feet after my foot slipped off a rung. I felt the hard jarring effect immediately and it lasted for a few days. Definitely had a stiff neck.
 
deerfly said:
points well taken.

Ironically I was in a hickory last night that would have been much easier to do with a dual rope method as girth hitching among a few branches at around 40' took some time. There was noting suitable below that 40ish foot level. Dual rope could have spanned a couple crotches up there and I would have been set in probably half the time.

I do need to experiment with more hitches and will do that in the off season. For now my system in its current form works very well for me and above all is very simple and safe.

In terms if single rope descent I've even practiced rappelling with the rope around my butt and the friction hitch fully broken as though it wasn't there. Wasn't comfortable or easy, but I'm now confident I can get on the ground safely from 15'-18' that way if I needed to. I don't think you can practice self rescue too much.
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I am sure there are some arborist videos you could watch. Professional climbers have to practice rescues periodically.
 
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