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The Piled-High Club

What’s your trigger? Has it changed? Does filling every tag satisfy you? Do you feel 100 is an accomplishment? What satisfies you on a hunt, tomorrow? What haunts you? Who do you learn from?

Congrats!
My "trigger" is either the pre-acknowledged goal for the hunt or the "accepted" size of the buck. Once in a while though, what happens just happens based almost on an autopilot "feeling" or when the situation engages me (endorphins and excitement are powerful triggers). Every tag that I choose to fill is a satisfaction, obviously of a successful accomplishment and other factors. The hunt in and of itself is actually satisfying for me, whether I choose to harvest or not. The opposite of satisfaction will be present, if the attempt to harvest results in a wounded and non-recovered animal (very low percentage here, happily...). The animals that I have not recovered haunt me the most, and those decisions made that forced failure against better judgement/knowledge. I learn most from the environment/animals/nature and my history/experience with/in them, I will listen and converse in depth with certified killers and novices alike, and I also float around the outdoor space and I do listen to a few podcasts and consume Youtube videos.
 
For the killers… do you use leg straps? Jokes aside, how would you arrange each of the following groups in order 1-3 based on your personal success/priority? 1 being the most productive, 2 being somewhat productive, 3 being the least productive?

Group 1 (location):
- bedding
- transition
- food/water source

Group 2 (time of day):
- morning
- midday
- evening

Group 3 (season):
- early season
- rut
- late season

Group 4 (most important group)
- group 1
- group 2
- group 3

Could you please specify if you are prioritizing based on packing a freezer or adding to your trophy wall?
Group 1 (location):
- transition
- food/water source
- bedding

Group 2 (time of day):
- evening
- morning
- midday

Group 3 (season):
- early season
- late season
- rut

Group 4 (most important group)
- group 3
- group 1
- group 2

Shopping for groceries (doe or buck)...
 
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While I havent killed quite a hundred yet, between my dad and my brother, ive processed over a hundred. Now that Im the chief processor, I smoke every thing I can with deer. I love leaving everything whole as much as possible. Last few years i've been just been cutting the legs on the front quarters of deer just short enough that they fit in my smoker and smoke the things whole. Deer pastrami out of the hind quarter roasts are great. When I do steaks out of the backstraps, they stay whole so they dont dry out while cooking/smoking like they do if you cut them into medallions or butterflys(butterflying backstraps is such a waste of time just do the medallions unless you want to stuff them).
Do you remove any of the fat/glands when doing the quarters whole?
 
For the killers… do you use leg straps? Jokes aside, how would you arrange each of the following groups in order 1-3 based on your personal success/priority? 1 being the most productive, 2 being somewhat productive, 3 being the least productive?

Group 1 (location):
- bedding
- transition
- food/water source

Group 2 (time of day):
- morning
- midday
- evening

Group 3 (season):
- early season
- rut
- late season

Group 4 (most important group)
- group 1
- group 2
- group 3

Could you please specify if you are prioritizing based on packing a freezer or adding to your trophy wall?
Group 1 (location):
- transition
- bedding
- food/water source

Group 2 (time of day):
- morning
- evening
- midday

Group 3 (season):
- rut
- late season
- early season

Group 4 (most important group)
- group 1
- group 2
- group 3

Looking for a buck (selectively)...
 
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For the killers… do you use leg straps? Jokes aside, how would you arrange each of the following groups in order 1-3 based on your personal success/priority? 1 being the most productive, 2 being somewhat productive, 3 being the least productive?

Group 1 (location):
- bedding
- transition
- food/water source

Group 2 (time of day):
- morning
- midday
- evening

Group 3 (season):
- early season
- rut
- late season

Group 4 (most important group)
- group 1
- group 2
- group 3

Could you please specify if you are prioritizing based on packing a freezer or adding to your trophy wall?


Group 1
3-Bedding - Bucks
1-Transition - Does /Bucks
2-Food- Does / Bucks. Never considered water in the Huntable equation.
Group 2
1-Morning-all season
2-Midday- early season/ mid season(rut)
3-Evening - mid season(rut)/ late season.
Group 3
1- early season fill freezer or target buck
2- rut big buck season
3- late season occasional buck if they’ve shifted back. Freezer season
Group 4
1- Group 1 either / target buck
2- Group 2 big buck season
3- Group 3 either
IMHO in my experience


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Lots of questions asked at this point so I guess I will just ad lib a bit here. As for new hunters and pointing them in the right direction in my part of the country, there are a couple of things that will influence what I say. Do they just want to get good at killing deer or are they really into it. To just kill deer which is how I was taught, focus on feed. Learn all you can about preferred food sources, where to find them and sequence of preference. Scout until you find smoking hot sign, then get in a tree. I transitioned from shooting any deer to shooting does and looking to only shoot mature bucks regardless of score. I havent graduated to hunting specific bucks only. This year I am learning to hunt mountains. Killed a fair bit in big river bottoms and rolling hills but never hunted mountains. Wish I had though because it would have made me a better hunter in the other areas if I had learned mountains first or at least early on. There are so many tactics that are effective for killing deer it's not even funny. Two types of hunters stand out to me, the ones who refine a specific system for killing specific deer and then consistently kill those deer and the ones who become true woodsmen and learn deer and their habits to the point they can apply a multitude of tactics in a variety of environments and be successful killing mature deer. It has been my observation those types never stop questioning things so they are continually learning. I seldom think of myself as a teacher because I am still focused on being a student.
 
It has been my observation those types never stop questioning things so they are continually learning.
I say the same thing about my career all the time, I am going to be learning something new every day until the day I retire. I feel the same way about hunting. I try to learn something new every time I'm in the woods. At some point those tidbits of information start to add up.
 
Lots of questions asked at this point so I guess I will just ad lib a bit here. As for new hunters and pointing them in the right direction in my part of the country, there are a couple of things that will influence what I say. Do they just want to get good at killing deer or are they really into it. To just kill deer which is how I was taught, focus on feed. Learn all you can about preferred food sources, where to find them and sequence of preference. Scout until you find smoking hot sign, then get in a tree. I transitioned from shooting any deer to shooting does and looking to only shoot mature bucks regardless of score. I havent graduated to hunting specific bucks only. This year I am learning to hunt mountains. Killed a fair bit in big river bottoms and rolling hills but never hunted mountains. Wish I had though because it would have made me a better hunter in the other areas if I had learned mountains first or at least early on. There are so many tactics that are effective for killing deer it's not even funny. Two types of hunters stand out to me, the ones who refine a specific system for killing specific deer and then consistently kill those deer and the ones who become true woodsmen and learn deer and their habits to the point they can apply a multitude of tactics in a variety of environments and be successful killing mature deer. It has been my observation those types never stop questioning things so they are continually learning. I seldom think of myself as a teacher because I am still focused on being a student.
Your thought's make me think of JE , DI and Andy May. 3 true "killer's" I would love to share their camp fire sometime.
 
I say the same thing about my career all the time, I am going to be learning something new every day until the day I retire. I feel the same way about hunting. I try to learn something new every time I'm in the woods. At some point those tidbits of information start to add up.
Some guys never learn or try to. They just bumble through the woods. Every once in a while they get lucky just enough to confirm their habits. They never evolve. If they do learn something, they don't apply that knowledge and keep doing the same old things cause that's the way they were taught or the Magazine tells them to do it. I see it all the time. I have 2 guys that recently got permission on my property. They never pay attention to the wind. or their access. Within a few sits, they kill that area. It's a shame. It's one of the best areas in the whole woods.
 
I'll start.

If you're tagged, what's the one piece of advice you'd give a hunter on his first year, with the intention of giving him the biggest heads up for the rest of his career?
I am not tagged but have killed around 120. Of those I can count on one hand my losses because I learned and changed after each. My main advise is learn deer anatomy, don't take shots you haven't practiced, and know the limitations of your projectile. Do this, and as far as the killing goes, you will be fine and rarely if ever lose a deer. Lastly, be very selective on who you listen too. If they don't have age and experience don't take their advise. This also means ignoring the guy behind the gun or bow rack unless you have thoroughly vetted them. I have been told and witnessed people get advise that will set them up for failure too many times at stores.

Anatomy:
"Behind the shoulder" is a dangerous term that gets deer lost. It is too ambiguous. Aim vital V always gun or bow. All the major killing stuff is upfront. Don't be afraid to go for it. Sadly, I see even national publications promoting shooting deer too far back. I had to endure a podcast today where four guys who are proclaiming themselves to be experts by hosting a such a program, couldn't understand why a certain shot placement yielded the results it did. I can't blame them too much when soo much bad info is out there.

Practice:
Shoot your gun at the ranges you plan to hunt so you know your zero. Check your zero a couple of times each season. Same with a bow. Practice from your stand or saddle at a 3d target as much as possible and learn your angles. After opening day I only shoot my 3d targets. I do take a small block on the road to check my sights, but my main every day practice is on a 3D. Pounding bag targets are for the preseason. Lastly, practice well further than you plan to shoot a deer, say 20 yards. You would be amazed how easy 40 becomes when you practice at 60.

Projectiles:
This is a biggie and the cause of a lot of lost game. Rifle hunters, USE HUNTING BULLETS, not rebranded target bullets such as Berger or Hornady ELDX, or Nosler Ballistic Tips. Bullets have recommended impact velocities. You should only take shots a distances that coincide with these velocities. If a bullet is too weak and deer pops up at 50 yards, your bullet can explode on impact wounding the deer. It doesn't matter if you have a 300 win mag or a 6.5 Creedmore. It happens often, and guys think they missed much of the time. Conversely, if you bullets is of too heavy construction and you shoot a deer 400 yards away it may not dump enough energy to quickly kill the animal if at all. Bullets kill differently than arrows. They require some shock to kill cleanly. Sticking with tried and true hunting bullets such as Nosler Partitions, Barnes, Federal Trophy Copper, Federal Terminal Assent, Remington Corelokt, or just about any bonded bullet will get your deer without fail. Lastly, shoot enough of a cartridge/bullet combo to get an exit hole on a broadside or quartering animal. It is a failure otherwise.

Arrows need to be well tuned. This is just as important with mechanicals if not more than fixed heads. An arrow flying crooked gets robbed of energy and doesn't penetrate. The res of this one is too complicated. I defer to Ashby's 12 rules DR. ED ASHBY'S 12 ARROW PENETRATION FACTORS and also the Ranch fairy. Too many take these guys the wrong way. They don't say you have to shoot a 700 grain arrow with a 1" two blade. Study the rules and incrementally apply them to your setup. I did and couldn't be happier. I shoot a 455 grain arrow with 14.5% FOC, Sevr 1.5's or 1.75's for deer, Solid 3 blade for big pigs, @ 288 fps. I know the limitations of that setup and take my shots accordingly.
 


If you're tagged, what's the one piece of advice you'd give a hunter on his first year, with the intention of giving him the biggest heads up for the rest of his career?
Don't expect too much success too soon. When I got started in the mid 1960's there wasn't much help in being able to educate yourself. In regards to bowhunting deer..... there were no videos/YouTube, no podcast, no TV Outdooor channel, no seminars, little to no reading material that went into the details that one needs. And, the only way to hunt elevated was using a homemade ladder stand. For myself, as a skilled Journeyman electrician, it was like serving a four year apprenticeship program with on the job training. By my fifth season I pretty much had it figured out but still learning more with the passing of each season.

I suggest that newcomers, take advantage of all of those education aids that are now available. Also, a successful mentor can certainly be a huge jump start. I've mentored several friends that learned in one season what took me four years to figure out.

As far as hunting tips... location is everything. Every hunting area has certain areas that deer desire to be and areas that is of no use to them. Scouting two to four hours every day, that you hunt, with an open mind searching for high percentage hunts has been the most important thing that I feel like helped me the most. Good luck and best wishes.
 
Where do you think most hunters mess up when it comes time to fling arrows? Is it bad/not-enough practicing, misjudging yardage, messing up on the draw, aiming at the wrong spot, or what? What has cost you the most deer?

Also, what about recovery? Where do most people go wrong there, or where did you go wrong yourself? And what do you do now to make sure a dead deer becomes a found deer?


You may not see many replies to this since it's early November!


1) These days most guys shoot plenty well enough on targets to kill a pile of deer. It comes down to executing under stress and shot selection. Most of my bad shots I rushed even when there was no reason to be in a hurry. I'd be excited and dump the arrow as soon as there was fur behind my pin. Getting to full draw on a whitetail at close range is the hard part. Once you're there make yourself slow down and execute the best shot you can.


2) Most hunters go wrong by being too optimistic on the quality of their shot. Double lunged deer nearly always fall in sight or earshot within 20 seconds. If that didn't happen you should be studying the situation. Next to the deers reaction, the arrow is your best clue about the hit. Study all the clues you can and wait the appropriate time. He needs to be dead before you can find him.
 
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I have probably shot over 150 deer in the last 50 yrs. Over 50 for this yr alone. I'm no professional but I would say new hunters need to shoot whatever they can as others have stated. Holding out for a big un will only lead to disappointment and stress. It's supposed to be fun. Shoot anything you can and practice getting close to critters. Practice tracking, still hunting, Gutting, and hauling out. It's all part of the enjoyment for me. JM2CTS worth.
 
Where do you think most hunters mess up when it comes time to fling arrows? Is it bad/not-enough practicing, misjudging yardage, messing up on the draw, aiming at the wrong spot, or what? What has cost you the most deer?

Also, what about recovery? Where do most people go wrong there, or where did you go wrong yourself? And what do you do now to make sure a dead deer becomes a found deer?
1. Shot timing is an oft overlooked critical aspect of shooting a deer, especially with archery tackle. Compared to any firearm, archery gear requires at least 25% more movement (move to position, draw, aim, then release as opposed to move to position, aim, squeeze the trigger) and all while doing this with an implement with its surface area at least 50% squared to the animal compared to perhaps 1% -2% max with a firearm (muzzle and front of scope). The opportunity for prey species’ eye catching ancillary movement goes way up. Couple that with issues like buck fever, shot anticipation, jumping the string, distance judging errors and unseen obstructions, low light, etc. It’s a wonder we get it done at all. That’s why I stress to new archers to shoot a lot of deer to get those nuances all worked out.

It is exponentially more beneficial as a bowhunter to practice this skill than shooting at a target face at known distances. Still do that to get your form and shot process system down but either shoot a lot of game and/or do video leagues or just video shooting practice to understand how to relate to animal movement and mannerisms all the while with the dynamic need to ready for the shot and do all the other possible contortions while in bow range of a super sensed game animal. At a minimum, factors like waiting for a slight turn of the head, or eyes behind a tree or thick brush, then stopping the animal, position of animal for proper access to the vitals and so on all are happening in real time. My best advice is to not let this control you by t you control as much as you can to minimize the other factors that can arise and oftentimes will arise. Cool as a cucumber. Cool as a killer. We all have it in us. It’s ok to be a predator, focus on developing those instincts. Shooting groups is fine but learn to shoot game to be a more effective hunter.

2. Too many people think of game recovery as a chore or boring. To me, this is often the second hunt. And it’s exciting because one typically has a pretty good chance at finding it if the vitals were slIced. A lot of getting number one right pays you dividends when at the recovery stage. My best advice is to embrace the blood trailing process as a necessary part of the hunt. It’s not or it shouldn’t be an afterthought. I do occasionally now but especially when I was first learning to bowhunt, I found it an honor to be able to help someone blood trail. I do now and always have told many friends, family and acquaintances to consider calling me if they would like help with blood trailing. I’m seeing more and more people just not doing it at all and calling in the dogs. I’m not anti dog whatsoever and have used them a couple of times myself in the past. But this trend that I see and sense that this part is “for the dogs” is saddening to me. Understanding what game does when wounded is essential woodsmanship in my experience.
 
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For those that are in the “if it’s brown, it’s down” group… I guess you process it your own deer. I always hesitate pulling the trigger wondering if it’s worth $75 processing fee.
I agree with Infalt on this one. Worry about all that after the harvest. We are all problem solvers and it always works itself out. Constantly thinking about dealing with the animal is a huge success killer. You’ll never push the envelope if this is your top thought. My advice is to either learn to process and/or learn to donate. I can take a deer to a game processor that participates in the many venison donation programs in most states and it’s as easy as that. Kill it, tag it, take it the processor, be on your way home.
 
For those that are in the “if it’s brown, it’s down” group… I guess you process it your own deer. I always hesitate pulling the trigger wondering if it’s worth $75 processing fee.
Getting off cheap at 75 dollars these days.

I process my own deer and I but I'm not gonna shoot small deer if I can help it. I don't want break out my processing gear for 20# of meat.
 
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