The stik compromise

[Bigfoot522]

There is definitely a focus on retrieving the lower stik here.
For a time I ran a seperate line with whuch I gave a pull up to remove tension on the stik then unsnap the tree rope out of the cleat and let it go using the first line to bring the stik up.
This eliminated the need to bend and reach down. It involves longer cords and works. There is a little cord management involved.
I got rid of the seperate cord and just climb up with the long end of my rope mod coming with me.
As soon as I am well into the aider I hook my toe on the stik and dislodge it and then tug to unclip.
The stik dangles free and up it comes on the rope mod. Reset.

 

[Bigfoot522]

Rappel for me.

 

[kyler1945]

It’s a little more cumbersome and harder to achieve the same height while standing from a stick, but yea what you described could be done. Would you not want to hang and detach the stick you were standing on for your third move so that with the third move you’d be to say around 20 +/- ft

I might lose an inch or two, but I've routinely gotten above 7' hanging my tether. I have a lot of practice because that's usually how I tether in with the hybrid.

I am very close to the tree, straight up with lineman's tight. Also requires a double top step so both feet are firm.

 

[kyler1945]

I have the impression a single push stick doesn't work that great. Two push sticks seem to do the trick.

The need for having the tether attached at all at that point is lost on me. And I agree a two stick push system for the two stick climb system would work better.

But I bet it wouldn't be all that hard to get your tether above your top step of your stick on a regular basis. Hell, just girth hitch the tether loose, hook on top step and standoff, and hang the stick. Then Flip the tether off top and cinch tight enough to move on up.

 

[Plebe]

There is definitely a focus on retrieving the lower stik here.
For a time I ran a seperate line with whuch I gave a pull up to remove tension on the stik then unsnap the tree rope out of the cleat and let it go using the first line to bring the stik up.
This eliminated the need to bend and reach down. It involves longer cords and works. There is a little cord management involved.
I got rid of the seperate cord and just climb up with the long end of my rope mod coming with me.
As soon as I am well into the aider I hook my toe on the stik and dislodge it and then tug to unclip.
The stik dangles free and up it comes on the rope mod. Reset.

I see. It's a bit of an acrobatic move for my comfort.

 

[Plebe]

The need for having the tether attached at all at that point is lost on me. And I agree a two stick push system for the two stick climb system would work better.

But I bet it wouldn't be all that hard to get your tether above your top step of your stick on a regular basis. Hell, just girth hitch the tether loose, hook on top step and standoff, and hang the stick. Then Flip the tether off top and cinch tight enough to move on up.

One of our Canadian members uses a foot loop on his tether to get extra height. He did a couple videos on that. He covered some ground, but still ran the tether just as high as he could reach and was still placing the stick below the tether at a manageable stretch.



Even on the foot loop, he has a big step to the aider. A three step aider would make that a normal step spacing. I guess the return on distance from pushing the tether up that extra bit just seems probably small to me. For safety, a high tether means less advancing and can be advantageous though I reckon.

 

[gcr0003]

I might lose an inch or two, but I've routinely gotten above 7' hanging my tether. I have a lot of practice because that's usually how I tether in with the hybrid.

I am very close to the tree, straight up with lineman's tight. Also requires a double top step so both feet are firm.

Ok, so say you hang your stick at 7' putting your top step at 7.5' like you used in your example. No problem with that, as that is how I would start my normal one stick climb. Now that i am on the first stick, I move my tether as high as I can reach which is going to be similar to what I can do on the ground and is limited by my height plus my arm length so lets say 7'. This is still what I already do when one-sticking. Where this changes is now I would have the opportunity to hang my next stick while standing on the first stick instead of while hanging from my tether. So how high can I hang this stick now? Well from the ground I could hang it 7' with the top step being at 7.5' so that is what I am going to be limited to again here. This would have you putting your stick over your tether. We don't want that so you would have to give your tether some slack and try and fight with pushing your tether high enough that when you weight it and are hanging to grab the first stick you wont be screwing up or knocking loose the second stick. OK, say that moving your tether up with your stick to get your stick under it went well and you were able to achieve 7' and 7.5' to the top of the stick. How much distance did you gain with your additional stick and aider? 1 ft maybe 1.5 ft? that is 2-3 foot more over one sticking for 2 moves above your first stick from the ground and would put you at ~ (7.5x3) 22.5 ft vs. (7.5+6+6) 19.5 ft. To me I have tried it and having to do the above plus carrying an extra stick and aider (or removalable) is not worth it to me.

 

[CooterBrown]

I'm 5'6" so kinda short. This is my second year one sticking. I have a DIY stick with EWO steps and Novix standoffs. Think its around 14" stick. I have a 4 step DIY amsteel aider. I attach my stick as high as I can at the base of the tree. (haven't measured the height) that puts my 4-step aider (8" spacing) about 8" off the ground. I climb up to the bottom step and bring the tail of my cam cleat rope and put it in the handle of my Rubberized gear tie that is around 12" sticking above my stick. Then I climb up to the top step and attach my linesman then my tether all from the top step. Pull all of my slack out of my tether and set down and reach to my left or right (depends on tree lean) and pull up on the gear tie to loosen the stick and then put my foot on my stick so it won't fall back down the tree and remove the tail of the rope from the gear tie and remove it from the cam cleat so now I have one foot on the stick and the tail of the rope in my hand. I reach and get the gear tie and remove the stick and move just offset and under my tether (that puts my 4th step of my aider at my foot level so I'm not stepping up to get on the aider. All of my weight is on the aider and stick with no slack in my tether). Once the aider/stick is checked for secureness I start climbing the aider (remember only 8" spacing so I'm not having to stretch or strain to climb with cold weather cloths one). One more thing I do when I attach the stick is I put the tail of the rope on the back side of the top stick and let the tail hang on the front of the top step and pull the slack out that way the rope can't pull out of the cleat without having to pull slack over the top step and out (I've never had the rope come out of the cam). When I reach the bottom step (yes, I have tether slack, but I use the linesman to climb as well) I get the end of my stick rope and install in the gear tie top loop move the tether up climb to top step, move the tether up, set down and repeat. I haven't measured it but I confident 3 moves gets me at least 20' and lots of times in the tall pines I go 4 moves. I have a 40' pull up rope and rappel rope and 5 moves gets me pretty close to running out of rope. Hope this helps someone.

 

[kyler1945]

Ok, so say you hang your stick at 7' putting your top step at 7.5' like you used in your example. No problem with that, as that is how I would start my normal one stick climb. Now that i am on the first stick, I move my tether as high as I can reach which is going to be similar to what I can do on the ground and is limited by my height plus my arm length so lets say 7'. This is still what I already do when one-sticking. Where this changes is now I would have the opportunity to hang my next stick while standing on the first stick instead of while hanging from my tether. So how high can I hang this stick now? Well from the ground I could hang it 7' with the top step being at 7.5' so that is what I am going to be limited to again here. This would have you putting your stick over your tether. We don't want that so you would have to give your tether some slack and try and fight with pushing your tether high enough that when you weight it and are hanging to grab the first stick you wont be screwing up or knocking loose the second stick. OK, say that moving your tether up with your stick to get your stick under it went well and you were able to achieve 7' and 7.5' to the top of the stick. How much distance did you gain with your additional stick and aider? 1 ft maybe 1.5 ft? that is 2-3 foot more over one sticking for 2 moves above your first stick from the ground and would put you at ~ (7.5x3) 22.5 ft vs. (7.5+6+6) 19.5 ft. To me I have tried it and having to do the above plus carrying an extra stick and aider (or removalable) is not worth it to me.

Again,

I'm not saying it makes sense to do. I think it's a dumb idea. Not because of two sticks. Because of the tether. I can't see why one would want to tether in while standing on the first stick. They still have to climb 4-8'. And they have to hang a stick - ie. work hands free. I'd prefer to have a lineman's belt properly deployed for the hanging of the second stick. Once on the second stick, and again with my lineman's belt properly deployed and helping me balance, I'd hang my tether. Not before I'm on the second stick.

I don't like long aiders. And I don't like hanging from a tether with slack in it. I wouldn't use the method I described. I made an assumption - someone is looking for HOW to do this. Not if it's a good idea.

Having said that - I don't think it would be hard for an average height person to climb to 14' +, with two sticks and aiders, while hanging their tether above the second stick fairly easily. I've not done literally this thing, but I've done enough similar things to feel confident in it.

 

[kyler1945]

Again,

I'm not saying it makes sense to do. I think it's a dumb idea. Not because of two sticks. Because of the tether. I can't see why one would want to tether in while standing on the first stick. They still have to climb 4-8'. And they have to hang a stick - ie. work hands free. I'd prefer to have a lineman's belt properly deployed for the hanging of the second stick. Once on the second stick, and again with my lineman's belt properly deployed and helping me balance, I'd hang my tether. Not before I'm on the second stick.

I don't like long aiders. And I don't like hanging from a tether with slack in it. I wouldn't use the method I described. I made an assumption - someone is looking for HOW to do this. Not if it's a good idea.

Having said that - I don't think it would be hard for an average height person to climb to 14' +, with two sticks and aiders, while hanging their tether above the second stick fairly easily. I've not done literally this thing, but I've done enough similar things to feel confident in it.

This falls in the same bucket at 275lb people asking the weight rating of tethrd one sticks. Of course the absolutely lightest most compact thing MIGHT work for you. But WHY is a 275lb person thinking about the problem that way? Why not start with "I weigh 100lbs more than most humans that most gear is designed for. This means two things - that gear may not be optimal for me, and I may also be capable and comfortable of carrying 2 more pounds of gear than a 140lb person because I'm massive."

Of course one COULD do the things I'm describing. I don't understand the process that would lead there. So I ignore it, and just offer the way to do it, context aside.

I agree with you it's not a great method.

 

[Plebe]

Ok, so say you hang your stick at 7' putting your top step at 7.5' like you used in your example. No problem with that, as that is how I would start my normal one stick climb. Now that i am on the first stick, I move my tether as high as I can reach which is going to be similar to what I can do on the ground and is limited by my height plus my arm length so lets say 7'. This is still what I already do when one-sticking. Where this changes is now I would have the opportunity to hang my next stick while standing on the first stick instead of while hanging from my tether. So how high can I hang this stick now? Well from the ground I could hang it 7' with the top step being at 7.5' so that is what I am going to be limited to again here. This would have you putting your stick over your tether. We don't want that so you would have to give your tether some slack and try and fight with pushing your tether high enough that when you weight it and are hanging to grab the first stick you wont be screwing up or knocking loose the second stick. OK, say that moving your tether up with your stick to get your stick under it went well and you were able to achieve 7' and 7.5' to the top of the stick. How much distance did you gain with your additional stick and aider? 1 ft maybe 1.5 ft? that is 2-3 foot more over one sticking for 2 moves above your first stick from the ground and would put you at ~ (7.5x3) 22.5 ft vs. (7.5+6+6) 19.5 ft. To me I have tried it and having to do the above plus carrying an extra stick and aider (or removalable) is not worth it to me.

That's what I'm seeing. I had added to my last post to clarify my point which I frankly didn't make when I first responded. It basically shows what you are saying. When I watch the video by @Steve_Eh, I just don't see eking a whole lot more distance out by pushing the tether up.

 

[gcr0003]

One of our Canadian members uses a foot loop on his tether to get extra height. He did a couple videos on that. He covered some ground, but still ran the tether just as high as he could reach and was still placing the stick below the tether at a manageable stretch.

View attachment 77041

Even on the foot loop, he has a big step to the aider. A three step aider would make that a normal step spacing. I guess the return on distance from pushing the tether up that extra bit just seems probably small to me. For safety, a high tether means less advancing and can be advantageous though I reckon.

I tried this as well and came to the same conclusion; HOWEVER, this changes when we start talking 2TC. Standing on your top tether while leap frogging your top tether and attaching to your bottom tether is a great way to extend your moves as well as an easy way around limbs. Additionally, since I already carry this gear there is nothing extra I need.

 

[gcr0003]

That's what I'm seeing. I had added to my last post to clarify my point which I frankly didn't make when I first responded. It basically shows what you are saying. When I watch the video by @Steve_Eh, I just don't see eking a whole lot more distance out by pushing the tether up.

Yea I saw your response after I got done typing mine haha. That picture illustrates it well.

 

[Plebe]

There is definitely a focus on retrieving the lower stik here.
For a time I ran a seperate line with whuch I gave a pull up to remove tension on the stik then unsnap the tree rope out of the cleat and let it go using the first line to bring the stik up.
This eliminated the need to bend and reach down. It involves longer cords and works. There is a little cord management involved.
I got rid of the seperate cord and just climb up with the long end of my rope mod coming with me.
As soon as I am well into the aider I hook my toe on the stik and dislodge it and then tug to unclip.
The stik dangles free and up it comes on the rope mod. Reset.

Have you tried it without using aiders, just two double step sticks?

 

[gcr0003]

This falls in the same bucket at 275lb people asking the weight rating of tethrd one sticks. Of course the absolutely lightest most compact thing MIGHT work for you. But WHY is a 275lb person thinking about the problem that way? Why not start with "I weigh 100lbs more than most humans that most gear is designed for. This means two things - that gear may not be optimal for me, and I may also be capable and comfortable of carrying 2 more pounds of gear than a 140lb person because I'm massive."

Of course one COULD do the things I'm describing. I don't understand the process that would lead there. So I ignore it, and just offer the way to do it, context aside.

I agree with you it's not a great method.

So I am 6'1" and 200 lbs, I put 75 lbs on my frame pack and 275 lbs was rough. I could obviously carry it and move it around but I was a slug with that much more weight. I would never dream of climbing being that heavy. I really would be second guessing many of these climbing methods if I was much heavier. If I was a big ole boy and still wanted to climb a tree I think at the very minimum I would be in a heavy duty climber and I would not be going very high. But this probably belongs in one of your many, yall shouldnt climb trees threads.

 

[Weldabeast]

IMO setting a high tether and climbing is more dangerous than using no tether and climbing with linesman...the slack isn't excessive at first but every step up untended u introducing more slack with the high tether vs linesman which the slack is "tended" by u leaning ur body back to keep the ropes tight almost the whole time....I realize that a linesman isn't a fall arrest but I would rather take a misstep with my linesman vs tether

 

[Bigterp]

This falls in the same bucket at 275lb people asking the weight rating of tethrd one sticks. Of course the absolutely lightest most compact thing MIGHT work for you. But WHY is a 275lb person thinking about the problem that way? Why not start with "I weigh 100lbs more than most humans that most gear is designed for. This means two things - that gear may not be optimal for me, and I may also be capable and comfortable of carrying 2 more pounds of gear than a 140lb person because I'm massive."

Of course one COULD do the things I'm describing. I don't understand the process that would lead there. So I ignore it, and just offer the way to do it, context aside.

I agree with you it's not a great method.

There’s waaaaaay easier ways for me to lighten the climbing method that ain’t my sticks……lol

 

[6L6]

IMO setting a high tether and climbing is more dangerous than using no tether and climbing with linesman...the slack isn't excessive at first but every step up untended u introducing more slack with the high tether vs linesman which the slack is "tended" by u leaning ur body back to keep the ropes tight almost the whole time....I realize that a linesman isn't a fall arrest but I would rather take a misstep with my linesman vs tether

If using a mechanical device it’s very easy keeping a tight tether while on an aider. On every step up make up on Ropeman/Kong etc. I have no slack until my feet are on bottom step stick.

 

[Weldabeast]

If using a mechanical device it’s very easy keeping a tight tether while on an aider. On every step up make up on Ropeman/Kong etc. I have no slack until my feet are on bottom step stick.

How do u keep 3 points of contact AND tend the tether?...wouldn't u need another arm?

 

[6L6]

How do u keep 3 points of contact AND tend the tether?...wouldn't u need another arm?

So what I do is much safer than just going up a tether that has slack in it, I’m not saying it’s the safest or best but…. Right hand is holding top of the platform, when I step into the aider I push back like leaning into a linesman belt which creates tension, as i pick foot up into next step of aider, i take slack up. If for some reason I was to slip before stepping onto the bottom of stick I’m under tension. The only time there is significant slack is when I step onto bottom step of stick, which then I advance tether up. I feel there is less chance of falling when I get onto the stick.