• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Time to admit what happened...

raisins

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
2,005
Shoot as many 3D tournaments as you can find. High pressure competition will help build confidence and repetition will make everything seem more natural at “game time”.

If you’ve lost confidence in your set up from the dry fire or heavy arrows then it’s time to switch things up. Confidence is everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree. I needed to hear this also.
 

raisins

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
2,005
I would get a 3D target and shoot it from the saddle. I'm going to do more of that this year. Shooting from the ground (platform or ROS a few feet up) is better than nothing when you don't have someone to retrieve arrows for you (when shooting at height) and moving the 3D target for you.

I had a bad year a while back, and it set me up for having nearly zero nerves on my buck the following year. I was tired of messing it up. I think that was a turning point for me.
 

ztrumble

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Messages
83
Thanks for the encouragement everyone.

Got to lock down the mental game, go with the float, and pull through.

Good news is I've got 8 months!
 

boyne bowhunter

Moderator
Staff member
SH Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
4,531
Location
Michigan
One other thing occurred to me this morning (I'm getting old and senile :)). I made the transition to saddle hunting after 40+ years of hunting from fixed platforms. I know I didn't maintain my form well in those fixed stands and over time I developed an unconscious correction factor for shots inside 15 yards. I just always aimed low because I had shot over the backs of many "chip shots" in my early days.

Along comes saddle hunting. I take my block out in the woods and practice from the tree. . . a lot. I find shooting is easier and I'm noticeably maintaining that "T" form since I can lean my whole body, not just bend at the hips. Wow, I thought, this rocks. I'm a way better shot from the saddle those deer don't have a chance. That season along comes my first opportunity at a decent buck . . . he walks right up inside 10 yards. I get the draw, I'm undetected. I settle my sight and launch the arrow . . . . right underneath him. I'm devastated. How the heck could I miss inside of 10 yards?

Back to camp, get out the block. Set it at 10 yds and climb a tree. First shot doesn't even hit the block. It lands in the ground two inches in front of it. Next few shots I hit the block but low every time. Dang, I must have bumped my sight. Move the block to 20 . . . dead center no problem. What I eventually discovered is that my shot routine was so ingrained in me that I was still aiming low for the those shots inside 15yds and not even realizing it. With the natural improvement in my form from leaning in the saddle I didn't need to shoot low anymore. It actually took me several rounds of shooting to discover my error. Of course, I had never practiced the "chip shot" distance from the saddle during my practice sessions so I didn't discover the problem until it was too late.
 

GVDocHoliday

Active Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Messages
122
Location
Manistee County, MI
Does are the highest strung animals in the woods. Knocking 40-50fps off your arrow speed is giving them a ton more reaction time. The fact that they're all high misses...I'd wager that these deer are ducking your shot.

Did you say the buck was walking when you shot? Would explain why he didn't react to the shot and why you hit him back in the guts.
 
Last edited:

raisins

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
2,005
One other thing occurred to me this morning (I'm getting old and senile :)). I made the transition to saddle hunting after 40+ years of hunting from fixed platforms. I know I didn't maintain my form well in those fixed stands and over time I developed an unconscious correction factor for shots inside 15 yards. I just always aimed low because I had shot over the backs of many "chip shots" in my early days.

Along comes saddle hunting. I take my block out in the woods and practice from the tree. . . a lot. I find shooting is easier and I'm noticeably maintaining that "T" form since I can lean my whole body, not just bend at the hips. Wow, I thought, this rocks. I'm a way better shot from the saddle those deer don't have a chance. That season along comes my first opportunity at a decent buck . . . he walks right up inside 10 yards. I get the draw, I'm undetected. I settle my sight and launch the arrow . . . . right underneath him. I'm devastated. How the heck could I miss inside of 10 yards?

Back to camp, get out the block. Set it at 10 yds and climb a tree. First shot doesn't even hit the block. It lands in the ground two inches in front of it. Next few shots I hit the block but low every time. Dang, I must have bumped my sight. Move the block to 20 . . . dead center no problem. What I eventually discovered is that my shot routine was so ingrained in me that I was still aiming low for the those shots inside 15yds and not even realizing it. With the natural improvement in my form from leaning in the saddle I didn't need to shoot low anymore. It actually took me several rounds of shooting to discover my error. Of course, I had never practiced the "chip shot" distance from the saddle during my practice sessions so I didn't discover the problem until it was too late.

Also, at really close ranges, your near pins hit low anyways. At 5 yards, for instance, your 50 yard pin will probably hit closer to the dot than will a 20 yard pin because the arrow needs to rise due to your bow being angled upward at the shot.

My brother missed a nice one because he thought the closer they are then the lower you aim. So, he aimed like a foot low with a 25 yard pin at like 5 yards out of a blind and it went way low. I'm just glad he missed the leg.
 

BTaylor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
625
Location
Central Arkansas
Does are the highest strung animals in the woods. Nocking 40-50fps off your arrow speed is giving them a ton more reaction time. The fact that they're all high misses...I'd wager that these deer are ducking your shot.

Did you say the buck was walking when you shot? Would explain why he didn't react to the shot and why you hit him back in the guts.
My guess is probably a combination of form and the above post. Forget about where the scoring rings on a 3d target are and never shoot above the bottom third of the deer.
 

Kurt

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
2,204
Location
Massachusetts
I'm convinced the heavy arrow with cut on contact blade zipped right through the guts causing the buck to hardly even realize anything happened. He just kind of hunched walked 30 yds and laid back down in the bed he got out of.

I think hitting a deer like that with a "twizzler flapper" would have sent him on the run.

I think the general consensus is correct. I've got more Deer Fever than I think. Been hunting quite successfully with a bow for 15 + years but only recently really getting into it as a hobby, putting a lot more thought into everything, working more on set up, arrow tuning and everything.

Got too much pressure on myself I guess.

Going back to work on the process with my hinge release. I heart shot the buck last year with that release. Shouldn't have switched.

Got too big for my britches and nature dun taught me a lesson!
Brother I think you hit the nail right on the head. The more we think about it the more pressure we put on ourselves even if we don't realize it. Bow hunting is fun. Go have fun. It doesn't mean we're not responsible for the proper mechanics, and ethics, but the whole idea is to ENJOY the pursuit. Then take proper aim, take a cleansing breath and release.
 

tyson12590

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2019
Messages
218
Location
Pendleton South Carolina
I think many of the comments above are the likely cause (target panic, form issues), but there is one more thing to check.

My brother had a similar problem with shooting way high and we discovered that his bow had a very mushy back wall after the let off. During practice he was pulling it all the way back against the bows back wall/cam stop and shooting consistently but during the heat of battle he was not drawing all the way back against the wall. Whenever he did not draw all the way back the bow was shooting 7 to 8 inches high. Most good bows dont have that problem but I thought I would mention it so you can make sure that issue is not affecting you.

Good luck on your journey. Keep your head up and things will improve.
 

Bowmanmike

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Messages
845
Does are the highest strung animals in the woods. Nocking 40-50fps off your arrow speed is giving them a ton more reaction time. The fact that they're all high misses...I'd wager that these deer are ducking your shot.

Did you say the buck was walking when you shot? Would explain why he didn't react to the shot and why you hit him back in the guts.
I think you are wrong about the slower speed making a difference. A 300 fps arrow takes .1666666666666 seconds to travel 16 yds,a 250 fps arrow takes .2 seconds. .034 seconds difference. Plus the bow is more quiet with a heavy arrow.
 

Plebe

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Messages
424
I think you are wrong about the slower speed making a difference. A 300 fps arrow takes .1666666666666 seconds to travel 16 yds,a 250 fps arrow takes .2 seconds. .034 seconds difference. Plus the bow is more quiet with a heavy arrow.
A Ranch Fairy (slower heavier) arrow will have a more pronounced arc than a twizzler flapper. A flaw that results in a high hit could be more pronounced with that setup then?

The heavy arrow setup is said to be quieter. But, speed of sound outpaces an arrow over 3x, if there is enough noise in either system to cause a deer to react, the faster arrow has a better chance of hitting near the aiming point.


Bill Winke, October 28, 2010, Bowhuntingmag.com, Why you shoot high-April 2009

STRING JUMPERS
You may also miss high if the deer you shoot at hears the sound of the bow and drops before the arrow arrives. This common event is called string jumping. The deer is actually loading its legs in order to run. I've made a few assumptions about reaction time and done the calculations; if you shoot an arrow traveling 230 fps, deer can drop roughly six inches before the arrow arrives for a 20-yard shot from a tree stand. If you shoot an arrow traveling 280 fps, the deer is likely to drop closer to 3 inches. At 30 yards, a deer will drop roughly 17 inches with a 230 fps arrow while it will drop roughly 10 inches with a 280 fps arrow.
 
Last edited:

woodsdog2

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
1,472
Does are the highest strung animals in the woods. Nocking 40-50fps off your arrow speed is giving them a ton more reaction time. The fact that they're all high misses...I'd wager that these deer are ducking your shot.

Did you say the buck was walking when you shot? Would explain why he didn't react to the shot and why you hit him back in the guts.
Yes, yes, yes. You are most likely used to the ranges and trajectory of your more balanced setups from the past, I would guess these deer are dropping before the arrow gets there. An adult deer's reaction time is very quick. My suggestion is to always aim low on the "elbow" of the deer and dial in a one pin sight so that you can just "point and pull" so to speak (as long as that animal is within your maximum effective range) with your heavier arrow setups. You seem too experienced to have form issues. I was originally going to say dominate eye issues but your misses are all high so definitely (IMHO), these are trajectory issues. Also, maybe for the first year or so keep your shots to within 20 yards. The biggest thing is to get that one pin dialed in so that you can "point and pull" by placing the pin on the center of a pie plate sized target from 0 to X yards (depending on the trajectory of your setup) and then always aiming at that same point on the deer (or the pie plate) no matter what. Adjust that one pin so that they are always falling in to that 8" kill zone. This will automatically incorporate your trajectory into your system without have to ****er around with figuring exact yardage. In addition, because of the more arching trajectory of the heavier arrow, you may have a one pin setting of only 0 to maybe 27 yards now instead of 0-32 yards because of the more arching trajectory... so you need to make sure the animal is within that range and aim low at that point of the elbow.
 

SEPA@73

Member
SH Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
96
Location
South Eastern PA
No secret about my thoughts on the extremely heavy arrow fad.Absolute over kill.However I don think they are what was causing your misses high unless you have your closest pin set way too far and that is unlikely.I feel like your misses are probably form related with you more than likely not bending at the waist.Also could be a confidence issue Sometimes when you catch a bad break it can be hard to get over it making it easy to talk yourself into missing before it happens
Buckhole may have hit on something. How are your pins set? 20, 30, 40?

I tend to shoot high from 20' up. With a heavier arrow (550 grains taw) I went to 15, 25 and 50. I generally never shoot past 25 yards. But forcing a 20 yard pin at 13 yards plus a tendency of shooting high could sail an arrow over the back! Just an idea. Good luck

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
 

1simplemann

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
211
I think many of the comments above are the likely cause (target panic, form issues), but there is one more thing to check.

My brother had a similar problem with shooting way high and we discovered that his bow had a very mushy back wall after the let off. During practice he was pulling it all the way back against the bows back wall/cam stop and shooting consistently but during the heat of battle he was not drawing all the way back against the wall. Whenever he did not draw all the way back the bow was shooting 7 to 8 inches high. Most good bows dont have that problem but I thought I would mention it so you can make sure that issue is not affecting you.

Good luck on your journey. Keep your head up and things will improve.
Bingo! Winner Winner Chicken dinner! OP, I highly suspect this is the cause of your issues. This thread was interesting to me because I had the same problem a few years ago. Buck, does coyotes it didn't matter. high! I could stand in my yard and pound arrows all day long. Then I would get in a tree stand and promptly hit them high, one lung them or even miss. At 1st I didn't realize there was a problem because it's bowhunting and sometimes crap happens. However the problem persisted on and off for about 3 years. I did not have access to practicing from a treestand at my house so it wasn't really apparant during practice in my backyard. Once I realized the problem, then I made the effort to drive to a buddies house and practice from a treestand.. I found out real quick that my form wasn't as good as I thought it was. Here's what I found out. My bow has a short valley and is very touchy to form issues if I didn't bend at the waist, didn't follow through the shot or creep, I would hit high. On the close shots I wasn't bending at the waist and my follow thru wasn't in line with my bow arm. In other words my bow arm was pointed down but I was pulling level if that makes sense. I should have known better cause I've been doing this for 40 years and lost count at 100 bowkills years ago. I solved the problem with a slight decrease in draw length and telling myself to pull! I Also I reduced my draw weight 5 lbs. I was shooting 74lb. Now I shoot 69lbs. Critters are dying from well placed shots again. I shoot an Ashby style arrow and speed wasn't the issue. My form was the issue.
 
Top