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Bwhana

Bwhana

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2017
Messages
2,291
Location
Hickory, NC
I'm channeling my inner @Nutterbuster here after a season of tree reflection and trying some different things (primarily using a combination of an X-stand X1 climber with a lightweight saddle at the same time), so this may take a minute! This post is not to persuade or dissuade anyone to go either direction, but rather to provide some real facts for folks to consider, especially those either new to hunting or new to tree saddles, similar to those I have been asked about for saddles vs. stands by many folks the past few years due to my HangTime decal (thanks @Jefferson10940). As a dedicated saddle site, there is a huge gravitational pull here for new folks to jump in without thinking through or knowing all the facts (i.e. the buy it and try it, you can always sell it for almost what you paid for it mantra) or the "me too" / fanboy effect to socially feel like one of the guys or gals on here. At the end of the day, nothing beats hunting off the ground for mobility, lighter carrying weight, safety, true all day comfort, or price, so for this discussion, that is really king and out of bounds - killing a mature buck on the ground is way more badass and takes far more skill than and elevated stand, period, we're not talking about ground blinds or boxes here either people). If you don't want to read any further, climbing stands and saddles are equally effective in most situations (while this post is more about comparing a climber to the saddle system, some of it also applies to hang-ons, up to your interpretation, and I am talking about true mobile hunting, not any fixed, pre-set stand sites). All tree methods are just tools to help us kill animals, which is and should be our end game anyway, not hunting in something just to say you do. If you are using a stand system now and it has worked for you and you are successful, keep using it and spend the money on better hunting land access, which will truly result in better success than a new tree method. Don't just do it because it is the current trend on YouTube or to save money, this is not a budget endeavor and never should be. So to that end, here are my top ten truths that I share with you in no particular order. I won't try to cover everything, I know others will chime in and contribute or blast away anyway :)
  1. Saddles are more fun. For me, that only applies when I rappel down, otherwise equal and still just a tool. Hunting should be fun, so if a saddle makes you have more fun, go for it!
  2. Saddles are not safer than a climber. Anything off the ground is dangerous and they both have their own risks. Climb and you may die a violent death.
  3. Saddle setups are less bulky than a climber. With some of the larger platforms out now and the sticks attached, JX3, or Guidos, there are some that are equal, but as a general rule, soft saddles rule here.
  4. Saddle setups are not always lighter than a climbing stand (meaning the saddle, ropes, climbing methods, and other gear required). My climber weighs 12 lbs total at true hunting weight plus about 2 lbs for the saddle combo with it. I've seen the weights some guys are carrying on here and the vast majority are way over 14 lbs, especially the JX3 or Guidos crowd, and yes, I have a Guidos (of note here, I recently used the top piece only at ground level as a seat at around 5 lbs, so neither of those can hold a candle to it for that purpose either). If you go with bolts or 1 stick and a light saddle with no dedicated platform, it will be the most ultralight system for going deep, no doubt.
  5. Saddle hunting is not more quiet to use than a climber. I can be just as quiet with the X1 as anything else I've used from a saddle standpoint and have killed bedded deer from the climber after climbing up less than 60 yds away from them in their bed.
  6. A saddle is not any better than a climber for comfort, an all day sit, or any sit. No matter what method you employ, pressure points will kick in at some point and you will play the movement game, and even a ground sit requires it (there is a reason they move invalid patients in beds periodically). Some saddles are vastly better than others for comfort (JX3, Guidos, TX-5, Recon), same for tree stands. As to immediate comfort, I will throw one out there on the comfort front from far left field that a saddle can never beat - try taking a dump from a saddle while at height! I have done so in an emergency situation due to our camp cook using the band saw oil in some cooking by mistake (think Dumb and Dumber) 1x from a climber by moving the top piece over to the side and hanging my rear off - not pretty, but effective, and I highly recommend you do not coat the tree or it would make for an interesting climb down!
  7. A saddle is better for smaller trees, gnarly trees, or trees with many limbs. This one tends to be a more regional thing based on my out of state hunts in the midwest, so if you live there or primarily hunt there, a saddle will work better for you. In most states, finding a suitable tree for a climber is simply not an issue, especially with all the telephone pole poplars, oaks, and pines throughout the south, and especially where you do not have libs telling you not to cut limbs as you climb.
  8. A saddle system is not any easier, better, or faster to climb with than a climber. I timed myself again this weekend, and I can be at hunting height (20 ft) and ready to shoot in 5-6 minutes from the time I reach tree. Hell, there are SRT guys on here that can't get a throw rope up in the tree that fast!
  9. You can shoot 360 degrees with a saddle. Realistically, downwind direction dictates you never need to shoot 360 degrees anyway (no scentlok/ozone discussions here, there is a different forum for that) and the movement required to do so is a questionable option at best. I have hunted for more years than many on here have been alive and can count on one hand the number of times I didn't get a deer from a climber that I could have got with a saddle, so get better at understanding deer movement and predicting where they will come from, with either option.
  10. Saddles and climbers are equal for accurate for shooting. The caveat here is a stand with a proper gun rest, so this is not a universal truth, but some saddle/bridge/tether setups are equally cumbersome with a gun and can harm long range accuracy too. Bow shooting accuracy is all just proper form no matter the stand method, so zero difference for most people and potentially more of a downside to saddles if you do not honor proper form while trying to move around the tree in an awkward position that only a saddle will allow.
 
Good post. I think number 6 is personal and something I disagree with. The ability to stand, sit, or lean and also change positions makes a saddle much more comfortable for me than any stand. Climbers are better than a hang on because you can adjust the height of the seat. Still, climbers gave me worse neck and back issues than a saddle.
 
raisins said:
Good post. I think number 6 is personal and something I disagree with. The ability to stand, sit, or lean and also change positions makes a saddle much more comfortable for me than any stand. Climbers are better than a hang on because you can adjust the height of the seat. Still, climbers gave me worse neck and back issues than a saddle.
Click to expand...
Exactly why I am using a saddle with my X1, best of both worlds!
 
Bwhana said:
Exactly why I am using a saddle with my X1, best of both worlds!
Click to expand...
Can you explain what you are doing with both? Are you climbing with the platform of the x1 and using it as a platform too? I must have not seen/read other posts you've made with this combo set up. Its funny because I have been moving some of my hunting junk around from my garage to a new shed and I was looking at my Summit Viper the other day thinking.... I should really take this thing out again for S&G's (I know I shouldn't post this but I have used these so much in the past I don't even use a harness in my summit climbers) Please forget that after you've read it.... anyway, it is somewhat liberating to just lay your bow or gun across the seat front bar and just sit there in a lazy boy in a tree but a PITA to carry in and can be noisy if you're in a hurry but they can be pretty deadly if you leave them on the tree for a few days while you're hunting in a spot you want to dedicate some time to. Anyway, you're making me want to explore this option more.
 
woodsdog2 said:
Can you explain what you are doing with both? Are you climbing with the platform of the x1 and using it as a platform too? I must have not seen/read other posts you've made with this combo set up. Its funny because I have been moving some of my hunting junk around from my garage to a new shed and I was looking at my Summit Viper the other day thinking.... I should really take this thing out again for S&G's (I know I shouldn't post this but I have used these so much in the past I don't even use a harness in my summit climbers) Please forget that after you've read it.... anyway, it is somewhat liberating to just lay your bow or gun across the seat front bar and just sit there in a lazy boy in a tree but a PITA to carry in and can be noisy if you're in a hurry but they can be pretty deadly if you leave them on the tree for a few days while you're hunting in a spot you want to dedicate some time to. Anyway, you're making me want to explore this option more.
Click to expand...
I have not publicly posted about this one until now and just decided to try it this fall due to an inoperable glute tendon tear, which prevents me from using any soft saddle for more than an hour or so without excruciating pain (this is not an issue for most on here, but if it feels good to me, it should feel great to almost anyone else). I first bought a Guidos to help me, but didn't like it as much as the X1, even with the LWHC as a climber/platform (also weighed much more than the X1). I also decided to wear a safety harness for the first time in 35+ years with a climber (never used one before with one period), so I thought why not use the saddle for that purpose. After sitting for a couple of hours, I stood up and moved the stand around the tree 180 deg and leaned in the saddle for a different feel. This allows me to alternate and have the best of both worlds while preventing serious pain. Had I not had the hip injury, I would likely have never tried this combo. You are also spot on about hooking the gun/bow/pack to the top piece while you climb and not having to pull anything up - you are ready to shoot as soon as you stop climbing. Again, I'm not selling anyone in either direction, but I do think it is a disservice to new folks who get caught up in all this and buy the wrong saddle or gear and they think something is wrong with them just because everyone else says it is so great. Both are tools to kill and both are great. Folks should get into saddles for the right reasons and the right way and there are many folks better served to stay in climbers due to their size and health situations.
 
Bwhana said:
I'm channeling my inner @Nutterbuster here after a season of tree reflection and trying some different things (primarily using a combination of an X-stand X1 climber with a lightweight saddle at the same time), so this may take a minute! This post is not to persuade or dissuade anyone to go either direction, but rather to provide some real facts for folks to consider, especially those either new to hunting or new to tree saddles, similar to those I have been asked about for saddles vs. stands by many folks the past few years due to my HangTime decal (thanks @Jefferson10940). As a dedicated saddle site, there is a huge gravitational pull here for new folks to jump in without thinking through or knowing all the facts (i.e. the buy it and try it, you can always sell it for almost what you paid for it mantra) or the "me too" / fanboy effect to socially feel like one of the guys or gals on here. At the end of the day, nothing beats hunting off the ground for mobility, lighter carrying weight, safety, true all day comfort, or price, so for this discussion, that is really king and out of bounds - killing a mature buck on the ground is way more badass and takes far more skill than and elevated stand, period, we're not talking about ground blinds or boxes here either people). If you don't want to read any further, climbing stands and saddles are equally effective in most situations (while this post is more about comparing a climber to the saddle system, some of it also applies to hang-ons, up to your interpretation, and I am talking about true mobile hunting, not any fixed, pre-set stand sites). All tree methods are just tools to help us kill animals, which is and should be our end game anyway, not hunting in something just to say you do. If you are using a stand system now and it has worked for you and you are successful, keep using it and spend the money on better hunting land access, which will truly result in better success than a new tree method. Don't just do it because it is the current trend on YouTube or to save money, this is not a budget endeavor and never should be. So to that end, here are my top ten truths that I share with you in no particular order. I won't try to cover everything, I know others will chime in and contribute or blast away anyway :)
  1. Saddles are more fun. For me, that only applies when I rappel down, otherwise equal and still just a tool. Hunting should be fun, so if a saddle makes you have more fun, go for it!
  2. Saddles are not safer than a climber. Anything off the ground is dangerous and they both have their own risks. Climb and you may die a violent death.
  3. Saddle setups are less bulky than a climber. With some of the larger platforms out now and the sticks attached, JX3, or Guidos, there are some that are equal, but as a general rule, soft saddles rule here.
  4. Saddle setups are not always lighter than a climbing stand (meaning the saddle, ropes, climbing methods, and other gear required). My climber weighs 12 lbs total at true hunting weight plus about 2 lbs for the saddle combo with it. I've seen the weights some guys are carrying on here and the vast majority are way over 14 lbs, especially the JX3 or Guidos crowd, and yes, I have a Guidos (of note here, I recently used the top piece only at ground level as a seat at around 5 lbs, so neither of those can hold a candle to it for that purpose either). If you go with bolts or 1 stick and a light saddle with no dedicated platform, it will be the most ultralight system for going deep, no doubt.
  5. Saddle hunting is not more quiet to use than a climber. I can be just as quiet with the X1 as anything else I've used from a saddle standpoint and have killed bedded deer from the climber after climbing up less than 60 yds away from them in their bed.
  6. A saddle is not any better than a climber for comfort, an all day sit, or any sit. No matter what method you employ, pressure points will kick in at some point and you will play the movement game, and even a ground sit requires it (there is a reason they move invalid patients in beds periodically). Some saddles are vastly better than others for comfort (JX3, Guidos, TX-5, Recon), same for tree stands. As to immediate comfort, I will throw one out there on the comfort front from far left field that a saddle can never beat - try taking a dump from a saddle while at height! I have done so in an emergency situation due to our camp cook using the band saw oil in some cooking by mistake (think Dumb and Dumber) 1x from a climber by moving the top piece over to the side and hanging my rear off - not pretty, but effective, and I highly recommend you do not coat the tree or it would make for an interesting climb down!
  7. A saddle is better for smaller trees, gnarly trees, or trees with many limbs. This one tends to be a more regional thing based on my out of state hunts in the midwest, so if you live there or primarily hunt there, a saddle will work better for you. In most states, finding a suitable tree for a climber is simply not an issue, especially with all the telephone pole poplars, oaks, and pines throughout the south, and especially where you do not have libs telling you not to cut limbs as you climb.
  8. A saddle system is not any easier, better, or faster to climb with than a climber. I timed myself again this weekend, and I can be at hunting height (20 ft) and ready to shoot in 5-6 minutes from the time I reach tree. Hell, there are SRT guys on here that can't get a throw rope up in the tree that fast!
  9. You can shoot 360 degrees with a saddle. Realistically, downwind direction dictates you never need to shoot 360 degrees anyway (no scentlok/ozone discussions here, there is a different forum for that) and the movement required to do so is a questionable option at best. I have hunted for more years than many on here have been alive and can count on one hand the number of times I didn't get a deer from a climber that I could have got with a saddle, so get better at understanding deer movement and predicting where they will come from, with either option.
  10. Saddles and climbers are equal for accurate for shooting. The caveat here is a stand with a proper gun rest, so this is not a universal truth, but some saddle/bridge/tether setups are equally cumbersome with a gun and can harm long range accuracy too. Bow shooting accuracy is all just proper form no matter the stand method, so zero difference for most people and potentially more of a downside to saddles if you do not honor proper form while trying to move around the tree in an awkward position that only a saddle will allow.
Click to expand...
You did not include # 11 in your top ten....... saddle sex appeal. Chicks dig a guy in a tree saddle. Just don’t ask my wife she may disagree.
 
Everything you just posted is true. These are things I’ve told folks that are thinking about getting into saddle hunting. Everyone has a different reason they want to try it. For me it was a weight cutting way for my son to bow hunt with me and still have some mobility. It has worked flawlessly for me. Guess I’m one of the lucky ones. Everything I’ve tried so far has worked and worked well.
But..... I cannot go to saddle hunting ONLY. I still use my big ol giant heavy summit a lot. I’ve perfected the use of it over the last 20 years of using one. Saddle hunting is another tool in the arsenal. Best bet is to use what works.
 
Nice write up. When talking about weight I always felt the weight of the saddle and ropes are about equal to or lighter than a nice safety harness. For me a climber can be more comfortable than a saddle. But not a 12 pound climber. My 180 max weighs 23 lb.
Same with hang ons. My millennium is super comfy at 13 lbs but now t an 8 lb lock on.
One thing for sure is saddles are more fun. I’ve never practiced using my climber in the off season.
 
I have tried to introduce many people to saddle hunting, the truth is that saddle hunting is not the answer to all of your hunting challenges and it is not for everyone. I guess the good news is that next year after all of the hunting magazines find a new topic there will be lots of discounted gear in the classified section. I do agree that killing a mature deer from the ground is much more challenging, I put my son on a mature buck ground hunting in a ghille suit this season and it was super challenging. Personally for me saddle hunting helps to stave off boredom on those slow days, there is always something to tinker with.
 
Appreciate these insights. In the three seasons since I've known about them I have been riding the saddle roller coaster for sure. All in. Try variants. Pull back to treestands . Back in the saddle game.

I actually started wondering this year if, for gun season at least, I would be better off finding, say, 4 spots to preset a m100u and just walk in with climbing system (small sticks, or WEs) clothes, and weapon. $1,000 is not much different than what I have invested in saddle gear. Even if I just put up 2 this year and added more each year... Our rifle season is just 3 weekends and I have only 3 days of vacation in that stretch. So 9 days is all I have. If I had 3-4 established spots to go hunt that would make gun season a whole lot more viable.

I've never done the preset thing. I was mobile before I knew it was a thing. In archery it is fine as I bounce around, adjust to get in bow range, and the weather is nicer so there's less gear, and sits are shorter. But gun seasons require lots of clothes up north, comfort for longer sits, and perhaps a predetermined location that is in a likely travel corridor. Maybe throw a trail cam at each location for improved confidence and motivation to get up and get there for the long sit.

This is probably old hat for many of you, but for me it is novel, and just might be my focus for change in 2021.

Either that or just sit on the ground, which is the new cool thing. I dunno. Definitely cheaper and easier. I did that year one when I was completely clueless and saw only a doe and her fawn. When I bought treestands for year 2 I started seeing (and killing) deer. I think I'm a committed tree guy.
 
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I posted somewhere on here before when I was much younger and didn't have any gear, I started bowhunting on the ground by stillhunting. I was blessed on my Grandmother's property to have a early fall Enduro run go through and it cut through some great bedding and transition areas. After 150 or more bikes would go through the trail was so quiet to walk on you could sneak up on the Jolly Green Giant if you wanted to. Anyway, still hunting is still a super challenge
 
I hunt almost exclusively from the JX-3 and have for the past 2 seasons. But, I've stopped trying to convince people to try it (or other saddles) because saddles are over-sold to some degree. There are pros. There are some cons. I tell people if they are accomplishing their goals with their current set up, they should stick with it. I don't want someone to drop a bunch of $'s and then be disappointed.
 
I started using my LWHC stand in combo with a saddle as well.

Honestly, best of both worlds imo and i get to drop a climbing method and platform so the weight difference is negligible.

But i really liked being able to stand, lean against the tree, actually sit down, in addition to leaning into the saddle. Made all day sits SO much more comfortable having all those different options.

I’ll probably just continue to hunt this way going forward.
 
A lot of people miss one of the major benefits of saddle hunting that you can’t get from any other system. It’s one of the main reasons why I switched and that is using the tree to hide behind. I was tired of being stuck in one stationary spot while on the ground or in a tree. Sure you can move while being on the ground but doing so on a mature deer and then being able to hide behind something without being seen...forget about it. I was tired of climbing 20’ 25’ in a tree and still getting picked. Ever since I have switched I have hidden from many non targeted deer passing by that might have spooked ruining my hunt but avoided doing so because I was on the other side of the tree. Too many hunters switching into saddle hunting think they need a platform without a way to the backside of the tree. I think this is a huge mistake and may lead people to think that saddle hunting isn’t any better than using a stand.
 
John E. says all the other elevated hunting options that aren't saddles are archaic and I just don't agree, but he has a lot of success and one of the main points he harps on is using the tree to hide yourself and with a saddle this is possible in most scenarios whereas some other elevated hunting systems don't provide as much flexibility to do so.

But that's just one element of his formula, and someone might need a totally different approach to have success for his or her situation. Following what others do (mimicry) because it works for them is a way to get started and may provide results, but it lacks the fuller cognition required to be a really good hunter.

It's good to have posts like this that provide thoughtful and nonpartisan analysis, and give a good foundation for others to formulate realistic conclusions.

As said, we hunt with tools. Some tools can do more than one thing, some tools do one thing better than any other, some accomplish the same job as another but are a better choice in certain situations but worse in other scenarios, some are a better fit for the user, some cost less. Look at the tools (yes, actual tools) in most any person's garage and you get a sense of the vastness of possibilities.

Personally, I like all the methods...and own some variation (or multiple) of each...saddle, climber, hang-on, ground chair, blind...boots. I suppose I don't own a helicopter, I see some folks hunt from them.

I haven't found a perfect system and even the gear I situationally prefer I feel could be improved upon.

I am liking hybridization in many cases as it often combines pros of multiple systems with sometimes only incurring a small penalty in cons. This post and Yinzer's .5 season review demonstrate that.
 
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