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Tuning Help

Publiclandowner

Publiclandowner

Active Member
SH Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
107
Location
Nebraska
So for context, I am learning to work on my own equipment (V3X33). However I bought the ranch fairy test kit because I was unsatisfied with the 475gr coc arrow setup I was running. I shot through the kit and settled on the 250 Apollo 29.5” c to c with the 100gr ethics insert and 150gr head. And really that arrow shot really well with 150-200 but settled on the 150 for TAW of about 625.

The problem I am finding is that I am putting bullet holes through paper but then when I shoot fletched at my target I can see a slight but noticeably tail low left then corrects quickly and hits pretty square. This evening I put 3 fletched shots through paper next to 1 bare shaft. The bare shaft is a bullet hole but it looks like the fletched arrows have the slightest nock high right. This is telling me that what I’m seeing at 20+ yards is the over correction. Is that correct?

Lastly, what do I need to do to correct this? Is it as simple as paper running with the fletching and ignoring my bare shaft tune? I’d so bare shaft tune seems like it would have been a waste. I’ll attach this evenings shots through paper.

FYI I’m shooting 72lbs @ 30” and paper tuning at 15’. My brace height and axel to axel are both dead on. Thanks!
 
NMSbowhunter said:
I may be completely off, but I believe fletching will slightly stiffen the arrow, accounting for the nock right. I would try a slightly heavier head to see if that gets it back in tune.
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Yeah the fletched also have a 6” wrap, didn’t consider it being slightly more stiff. I’ll try 175 and 200 grain tips tomorrow. Thx
 
I don’t really care for bare shaft tuning I just go right to tuning with fletched arrows. I usually try moving my rest a little bit first to fix any issues if that doesn’t work I try different point weights to see if it’s a spine issue.
 
Publiclandowner said:
Yeah the fletched also have a 6” wrap, didn’t consider it being slightly more stiff. I’ll try 175 and 200 grain tips tomorrow. Thx
Click to expand...

What kind of rest? Check your wraps leading edge. I had a similar issue driving me nuts once and no matter what rest movements or cam adjustments I made I couldn't get rid of the slight nock high. I looked over the arrows and on the leading edge of my 6" wrap I noticed it folding back some. I assumed it was catching on the rest. I sped up my rest a little and it resolved the issue. I also switched to 4" wraps on my current arrow build.

BT
 
With a very high FOC, you can have some issues with tuning. With a very high FOC, almost all the steering weight is up front and there isn't much steering control with the rest of the arrow shaft especially with bare shaft. Then when you add some fletching, you are adding some "lift" to the shaft that has enough of an effect to give some steering from the back half of the arrow. When I say "lift", I am referring to aerodynamic forces that can affect the arrow in all directions, up/down/left/right.

So, your bare shaft tuning isn't going to tell you that much since there isn't much "lift" coming from the back of the shaft. Tune the arrow with fletching and you will have a more stable, repeatable flight pattern. You may want to consider experimenting with 4 fletch arrows with the ultra-high FOC arrow setup.
 
I am an advocate for bareshaft tuning as a way to sort my arrows and orient individual shaft spine locations. As for being the "final word", that it is not! Your fletching does add some weight to the back of the arrow, which does increase spine stiffness slightly (same with lighted nocks, etc.), but what not many people mention is the lift/drag that your fletching adds (which cannot be duplicated during BS tuning by just adding weight).

My process is to BS tune to perfection and to complete arrow sorting, then leave the paper and go directly to broadhead tuning. If you're going to shoot a mechanical, I would probably use walk-back or french tuning...

I personally use a left-helical 4-fletch and a left-single-bevel. Two out of 3 years, I've had to correct for a "weak spine" broadhead.
 
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Black Titan said:
What kind of rest? Check your wraps leading edge.
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I’m using a QAD drop away, and my wraps look good, shortening or I wraps may be something I do going forward if I don’t get this figured out. Thx

Halfstep said:
Tune the arrow with fletching and you will have a more stable, repeatable flight pattern. You may want to consider experimenting with 4 fletch arrows with the ultra-high FOC arrow setup.
Click to expand...
That is something I was curious about…whether BS tube was just the starting point…the. Fletched after. I am actually running 4 fletched now…AAE Hybrids to be exact.
bowhunthard88 said:
I am an advocate for bareshaft tuning as a way to sort my arrows and orient individual shaft spine locations. As for being the "final word", that it is not! Your fletching does add some weight to the back of the arrow, which does increase spine stiffness slightly (same with lighted nocks, etc.), but what not many people mention is the lift/drag that your fletching adds (which cannot be duplicated during BS tuning by just adding weight).

My process is to BS tune to perfection and to complete arrow sorting, then leave the paper and go directly to broadhead tuning. If you're going to shoot a mechanical, I would probably use walk-back or french tuning...

I personally use a left-helical 4-fletch and a left-single-bevel. Two out of 3 years, I've had to correct for a "weak spine" broadhead.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I will be shooting Iron Will single bevels…and it seems the right path forward is that BS tune is great to get dialed in. I’ll finish tuning with fletched arrows and broad heads until my arrows fly like lasers.
 
Publiclandowner said:
I’m using a QAD drop away, and my wraps look good, shortening or I wraps may be something I do going forward if I don’t get this figured out. Thx


That is something I was curious about…whether BS tube was just the starting point…the. Fletched after. I am actually running 4 fletched now…AAE Hybrids to be exact.

Thanks, I will be shooting Iron Will single bevels…and it seems the right path forward is that BS tune is great to get dialed in. I’ll finish tuning with fletched arrows and broad heads until my arrows fly like lasers.
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If you shoot a helical fletch, just verify that the direction matches your broadhead bevel lol. Personally, I'm a fan of chasing natural direction of rotation, but that's being nit-picky...
 
Shoot a fletched, broadhead tipped arrow. Then shoot a couple of field point arrows. Do it three times to ensure the results are consistent. Make rest adjustments as necessary
 
So I had pretty limited time tonight but I did try adding 25gr to my point weight as @NMSbowhunter suggested. Through paper I thought I had fletched bullet holes, so I went and shot a half dozen at 20yds and there was still a touch of knock left in flight, but it was much improved from before. So I went back and really inspected my paper and I concluded there is the slightest knock right @ 15’. So tomorrow I’m going to bump my rest just a touch and see how they look. This will take my TAW from 625 to 650.
 
woodsdog2 said:
Completely agree with @Halfstep and @bowhunthard88 on this! I can’t add anything more. Bareshaft tuning is a means to an end but just a step in the process.
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Cool, I like the general consensus here. I felt like all the YouTube vids were making the point that if you are tuned right fletched should match BS, period. And I couldn’t get there lol.

Thx for the input everyone. I would have been chasing my tail forever lol.
 
in the stick bow world, and once upon a time for compounds, we would need to tune the bow to the arrow. the RF method is an red herring introducing way too many variables. to truly gauge which spine/insert/point combination is best, you need to to tune to each setup explicitly, shoot groups, and fairly evaluate each combination on their own. most people dont have that sort of time or shooting ability. the beauty of a modern compound is that we now have the tools to tune the bow to the arrow. so build the arrow you want and remove that variable.

my tuning process is quite simple... i like my bare shaft to hit with my fletched arrows at 20. this is my starting point. next comes torque tuning. i am physically moving the rest fore/aft and purposely torquing the bow to find the "sweet spot" that gives me the most forgiving flight, checking the bare shaft along the way. with a target bow i am now done. for a hunting bow, its time to check broadheads. with a good bare shaft and decent torque tune, i have never had broadheads more than a click or two of the rest off at 50. there are other nuances that i like to keep track of, but those are the big things (that work for me).

i think people are sold a bad bag of goods trying to tune for "perfect" arrow flight. all of your good shots are going to hit the middle. but where do your bad shots land? what you want to tune for is "forgiving" arrow flight. a bullet hole means nothing if the tiniest twitch results in a monumental miss. in a competition setting under stress i may be pulling to hard and torquing the bow or anything else, i still need that arrow to hit the X. saddle hunting? with a broadhead? forgiving is even MORE important. you dont have the same form as shooting off of flat ground with good footing, its more likely than not that you will induce some sort of torque into your shot in the moment of truth.

quit fiddling with the arrow, get rid of the paper, and just worry about the bow (and yourself).
 
Publiclandowner said:
Yeah the fletched also have a 6” wrap, didn’t consider it being slightly more stiff. I’ll try 175 and 200 grain tips tomorrow. Thx
Click to expand...
If the bareshaft arrow is shooting bullet holes and the fletched are not, the most obvious issue is the weight of the vanes and wrap. Increasing the front weight by the weight of the vanes and wrap should put you right back on the money. That rear weight changed the dynamic spine of the arrow making it stiffer as mentioned by @NMSbowhunter. You could also try just a fletched arrow without the wrap and see how it reacts because depending on the weight of the wrap and vanes, you may not be happy with the flight path after adding even more weight. Or you could keep the the wrap and vanes and drop a spine range and adjust rear weight to tune. Of course that is counter productive to attaining high foc if that is the goal.
 
The brutal truth is that that much weight really affects arrow flight at a much longer time frame. Start over and tune until you get perfect arrow flight. Be open to the end results. Weight, foc and all those items may be different than what you believe is the end. If you wanted 650 grains but ended at 575. Get the flight first.
 
Update (delayed due to walleye fishing lol):

I ended up adding 25 grains to my fletched arrows and slightly moving my rest and got back to bullet holes.

I guess it wasn’t about how to get a bullet hole, but more about why fletched wasn’t matching my bare shaft. Either way, I bought another dozen arrows for a different build. Bare shaft tuned, then micro adjusted for fletchings.

Why bare shaft and not just go straight to fletchings if they don’t match, or do you guys do that?
 
There are so many ways to get to the end. Bare shaft is good but it doesn’t need to be perfect. The fletching changes flight a bit. I do too many steps and could really just paper tune then broadhead tune. Just find a system that works and make a sense to you.
 
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