U.S. Forest Service Land - No hunting beyond this point signs from land, no signs from water

[gcr0003]

Ok, so I found some land that I would like to hunt on U.S. forest land. By boat the land is not marked in any manner that would suggest that the particular area is hunting restricted; however, if you drive down the roads on the far side of the land you will see signs which state something like, "no hunting beyond this point." I have yet to contact the local forest service for clarification on this but I am curious how this plays out? If I never went down the road I would have never known that you couldn't hunt the area. I know I know, just because you don't know something is prohibited, doesn't mean it is not prohibited. The U.S. Forest service seems to be vague on it's restriction as well, which isn't always a negative thing. Their site says it's simple, just follow local state laws and regulations. I did look at the local page for the particular forest land I hunt and I couldn't find anything about it either. What are yins thoughts on the matter?

I’m not advocating hunting the area that is posted. However I will be cautious in the future to ride roads and verify they are legal before accessing by boat. If I only ever access from the water side it would be easy to never know I was disobeying the law.

I will add that in areas where I have seen this sign I have seen people parked and hunting! That is, parked on the side that has the sign and still hunting it lol.

Hunting | US Forest Service

An array of wildlife suitable for hunting may be found on national forests and grasslands. Hunting is a seasonal activity, and the rules are simple: Follow the state laws and regulations pertaining to hunting, including seasons, dates and licensing. Forests and grasslands may place some areas as...

www.fs.usda.gov

 

[SNIPERBBB]

USFS is horrible with marking the land they are in charge of. You gotta be good with maps when in those areas.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

USFS is horrible with marking the land they are in charge of. You gotta be good with maps when in those areas.

That’s where they make their real money, ticketing unknowing hunters and poachers lol… I mean those 250-5000 fines are way more valuable than 200 $5 park entries….

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Ok, so I found some land that I would like to hunt on U.S. forest land. By boat the land is not marked in any manner that would suggest that the particular area is hunting restricted; however, if you drive down the roads on the far side of the land you will see signs which state something like, "no hunting beyond this point." I have yet to contact the local forest service for clarification on this but I am curious how this plays out? If I never went down the road I would have never known that you couldn't hunt the area. I know I know, just because you don't know something is prohibited, doesn't mean it is not prohibited. The U.S. Forest service seems to be vague on it's restriction as well, which isn't always a negative thing. Their site says it's simple, just follow local state laws and regulations. I did look at the local page for the particular forest land I hunt and I couldn't find anything about it either. What are yins thoughts on the matter?

Hunting | US Forest Service

An array of wildlife suitable for hunting may be found on national forests and grasslands. Hunting is a seasonal activity, and the rules are simple: Follow the state laws and regulations pertaining to hunting, including seasons, dates and licensing. Forests and grasslands may place some areas as...

www.fs.usda.gov

My thoughts are if you’re on the navigable waters in your boat you can hunt or fish lol…

Seriously though if a sign is posted on the road side for that area, the road side is considered the public access so posting is required. Access from the water is most likely not required unless you’re in an area that regularly uses water taxis…. So I would call and ask and be prepared for disappointment

 

[CptFrank]

My stand point is if you knowingly do something in a grey area, expect to get a ticket if you get caught. I recently emailed the office that manages a National Wildlife Refuge by me and asked them to confirm you could use a boat with the motor up in a No motor canal, then lower the motor once you left the canal. The response i got was each officer will have to make that decision for themselves. Kinda sounds to me like "its not against the rules unless someone decides it is".

There might also be language somewhere to the point of "access must be from designated parking areas or roadways" making the boat argument even weaker. If you try it go with god but i expect youll find that it is a no go.

 

[Zero One Actual]

Sadly I always have to assume threads like this are monitored by federal agencies in some capacity and members here are employed by government agencies.

So let’s do this.
I have a no trespassing sign on the front fence of my house. The fence goes all the way around my house but ends on both sides at a large lake. If someone canoes up to my backyard where there is no fence or sign, are they trespassing?

 

[dalton916]

A lot of variables at play here. Is the water a recreation area? Is it a pond? Is it a river? Is it a creek that is navigable? Do you have to drive past the “no hunting” signs to get to the water that “doesn’t have signs saying no hunting”?

 

[Jtaylor]

Sadly I always have to assume threads like this are monitored by federal agencies in some capacity and members here are employed by government agencies.

Lol! I hope they aren't wasting money on monitoring "Saddlehunter" but maybe they do...

"no hunting beyond this point."

Read the signs and pay attention to them. There's a reason they're there although they might be old and not necessarily relevant anymore there's a reason they don't want people hunting (to protect an endangered species, protect their assets, etc. or to protect the public from a logging operation, etc.) A decent percentage of BLM land out west is listed as no public access/no trespassing for various reasons. It's just not worth a ticket or endangering yourselves for a deer as there should be plenty of other areas to hunt. If you entered the area unknowingly (broken signs, back door access), I would assume they would take this into consideration but it still it would be "at your own risk" type of deal.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Sadly I always have to assume threads like this are monitored by federal agencies in some capacity and members here are employed by government agencies.

So let’s do this.
I have a no trespassing sign on the front fence of my house. The fence goes all the way around my house but ends on both sides at a large lake. If someone canoes up to my backyard where there is no fence or sign, are they trespassing?

Depends on how the property laws works in your state. Coming onto the land itself is trespassing. Floating on the water most likely isn't, public lake it definitely isn't. Anchoring/touching bottom gets touchy legally depending on the deeds/laws

 

[ofor]

We can speculate all we want here and make you feel justified to hunt it but in the end, you gotta make the call to them to get the official answer. They always say that ignorance of the regs is not an excuse when it comes to whether they issue a citation.

 

[gcr0003]

We can speculate all we want here and make you feel justified to hunt it but in the end, you gotta make the call to them to get the official answer. They always say that ignorance of the regs is not an excuse when it comes to whether they issue a citation.

Not what I was saying. I don’t need the internets opinion to justify my actions. I was just asking peoples thoughts. I even said in my original post, not knowing a law doesn’t mean a law doesn’t exist. I just thought it was interesting because if you never came from the land side or traveled all the areas borders there would be no way to know the area was restricted.

 

[MEB]

Not what I was saying. I don’t need the internets opinion to justify my actions. I was just asking peoples thoughts. I even said in my original post, not knowing a law doesn’t mean a law doesn’t exist. I just thought it was interesting because if you never came from the land side or traveled all the areas borders there would be no way to know the area was restricted.

That’s where officer discretion comes in.

For example, in NH (legal to access if not posted), a landowner is responsible for posting their property with signs X number of feet apart, so high on a tree. But, just because the signs don’t exactly meet the letter of the law doesn’t mean you’re ok to access.

Does this place get enough traffic from the water to warrant posting the back side? What would a reasonable person do?

I’ve had some luck using Google Street View to scan the borders of potential spots for signs and parking.

 

[gcr0003]

That’s where officer discretion comes in.

For example, in NH (legal to access if not posted), a landowner is responsible for posting their property with signs X number of feet apart, so high on a tree. But, just because the signs don’t exactly meet the letter of the law doesn’t mean you’re ok to access.

Does this place get enough traffic from the water to warrant posting the back side? What would a reasonable person do?

I’ve had some luck using Google Street View to scan the borders of potential spots for signs and parking.

There’s not a ton of folks that hunt it from water access so it probably wouldn’t be worth their time posting it. I need to ride all the roads now and try to figure out where I can and can’t hunt.

 

[Nutterbuster]

I have seen signs facing the wrong way before. Sometimes USFS and COE are bad about posting signs designating a no hunting safety area along a road (usually something like no hunting within 100ft of a road or 500ft of a camp or whatever) and if you were riding along you'd just see "no hunting" signs all along the road and write it off if you weren't good with a map.

In general, USFS, TVA, and COE do not give a yippidy do da dang if you hunt or not. It's an afterthought for them. They will not do anything to help a brother out that inconveniences them and you're the lowest user on the totem pole. COE is especially bad about that in my experience. Vs WMA or Forever Wild tracts they tend to be a little more hunter positive.

I'd double check the map and verify with whoever you think would be the guy in charge of giving you the ticket. If you think he's wrong, be polite and get it in writing and then run it by his boss. I've had an ongoing "issue" with a local game warden who is a cool enough guy but thinks he's in charge of interpreting rules where his superiors disagree.

 

[Weldabeast]

There is a law here in our state that sounds very similar to what it talking about. If u access from a public boat launch and stay below the high water mark then it is considered public land. There's lots of grey area and from what I gave gathered it goes along with what all u guys are saying..... It's all going to depend on the officer u interact with.

Obviously nothing to do with ur dilemma in Alabama but if Floridians wanted to research u just start looking up sovereign land laws and decide for yourselves

 

[Lowg08]

If the land is beyond the sign then it’s off limits. Wildlife laws are left open to interpretation by the officer in some instances and trust me they will use that. Take advice from a guy who has had 36 state tickets, 8 federal and a 3 day jury trial over “supposed wildlife violations”. Just to clarify I was found not guilty and all charges were dropped and harassment charges filed against the officers. Once it was found out they made up all the charges with no evidence. They were just close to there statutes of limitations running out on an investigation that was never going to produce anything. They can’t even check my fishing license now. So after all that. Don’t try your luck.

 

[phatkaw]

Chancy from WhiteTail Adrenaline got ticketed for exactly this scenario in Iowa.

No signs from the waters edge , no bouyes in the water stating that they were upon 'no access'.
They got the whole thing on film...

 

[kyler1945]

It's a metaphor for life, and a microcosm of bureaucratic incompetency.

Don't tell us what you decide to do. But I hope you kill a bigun. Or a spotted fawn. Either way.

 

[dalton916]

A lot of variables at play here. Is the water a recreation area? Is it a pond? Is it a river? Is it a creek that is navigable? Do you have to drive past the “no hunting” signs to get to the water that “doesn’t have signs saying no hunting”?

Well?

 

[gcr0003]

A lot of variables at play here. Is the water a recreation area? Is it a pond? Is it a river? Is it a creek that is navigable? Do you have to drive past the “no hunting” signs to get to the water that “doesn’t have signs saying no hunting”?

Sorry I thought I responded to your reply.

The water is open to the public with both private and public put ins. It is large enough that you can run pontoons and ski boats on it. If you were going by land to hunt the area you want you would drive past the signs. If you came from the water side you would never see the signs unless you walked up to the road and turned back to the area and read the signs. This is my point, if you never drove the roads you would not know that the area is restricted. There is a lot of land broken up into different sections, with some being accessible by water, most by land only and some by water and land. Basically if i put in at the nearest boat launch and ride 6 miles by boat I wouldnt have seen and signs posted from the roadside saying no hunting beyond this point. Some areas leading up to the boat launch I put in at have these same signs on the land leading up to the launch but that corresponds with them being near a campground I suppose. I have never even considered hunting them, though they have plenty of deer in the campground.