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What's going to happen?

ssramage

ssramage

Active Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
191
Location
Saint Simons Island, GA
Fair warning, I'm going to throw out what's sure to be a controversial question. To back it up, my career has been primarily in the consumer goods environment, so I may have a slightly skewed view as I do risk assessments fairly often. I've seen on numerous occasions where consumers aren't as smart as you'd expect...

Saddle hunting has obviously become a much more popular alternative over the last couple of years, especially in the last 12-18 months. With the explosion of popularity over the last year, I would be willing to bet that you will have a lot of brand new saddle hunters in the woods this year, many with new/untested equipment. And many of them will be using customized platforms/sticks/ropes/etc because it's the "cool" thing to do. You'll have a lot of people cutting ounces or pinching pennies, and making safety related decisions that they're not at all qualified to make. I know that I personally have had some close calls in the "learning phase" with other climbing methods, it stands to reason there will be those with saddles as well.

So... in your opinion, what happens to the market/industry, the first time someone has a serious failure that results in significant injury (or worse)? I'm sure the guys in the industry kick this question around quite a bit, but curious how the user marketplace would react.
 
We already had a good string of accidents last year. A buddy of mine got into it fresh and managed to fall backwards 20ft when his bridge came untied. Accidents like that all over facebook


Treestand accidents occur every year. Saddles are safer, but user error will happen. I don't think it will kill or really even impact the industry. If enough people get hurt or die in one particular model, that model or brand may go under, but that's about all i'd expect.
 
People fall to their death from treestands every year. They keep building them. I suppose saddles will be the same. That said if you find something you really like it might not be a terrible idea to buy a few extras just in case.
 
Well in my opinion, we've already seen some failures in equipment such as cast platforms and such. Typically businesses try to make it right by reaching out by all means.

As far as DIY goes, anything someone is making is essentially at their own risk. No one is held liable once something is modified from its original form (unless it is an unmodified portion that failed). If the mod changed a physical characteristic of the overall component that aided in the failure than the manufacturer has a scapegoat. I'm not saying it's fair or morally correct but just like vehicle warranties, they will find a way out of paying for something typically. DIY components aren't necessarily the "cool" thing to do, they are the practical and comfortable thing to do. People modify their gear to their liking for their usability.

As for saddle hunting, you should always be tied in. I'm not saying I am perfect because I have done my fair share of free climbing, and have visited that topic on saddlehunter. Again, that was at my own risk and under my ignorance for safety.

Users need to remember to always inspect their gear thoroughly prior to a climb and pay attention to manufacturer info/warnings. These companies should all have insurance that covers them, your insurance is to cover yourself with safety.

Be safe guys, tie in, be cautious, drop whitetails!
HuntNorthEast1.png
 
Nutterbuster said:
We already had a good string of accidents last year. A buddy of mine got into it fresh and managed to fall backwards 20ft when his bridge came untied. Accidents like that all over facebook


Treestand accidents occur every year. Saddles are safer, but user error will happen. I don't think it will kill or really even impact the industry. If enough people get hurt or die in one particular model, that model or brand may go under, but that's about all i'd expect.
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Come out of it alright? That's quite the fall especially flying backwards!
 
HuntNorthEast said:
Come out of it alright? That's quite the fall especially flying backwards!
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He's alive, so i guess he came out smelling like a rose. Broke some stuff that'll probably never heal up right, and missed the season.

I still feel bad even though I didn't do anything other than recommend a kite when he reached out to me for input. I worked with his daughter for 2 years, and she was one of the sweetest and most hardworking people I knew. Felt terrible seeing her post about her dad in the ICU.
 
Nutterbuster said:
He's alive, so i guess he came out smelling like a rose. Broke some stuff that'll probably never heal up right, and missed the season.

I still feel bad even though I didn't do anything other than recommend a kite when he reached out to me for input. I worked with his daughter for 2 years, and she was one of the sweetest and most hardworking people I knew. Felt terrible seeing her post about her dad in the ICU.
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Yeah I can understand feeling that way but obviously it was out of your control and not your fault, as they say sh!t happens. Unfortunate situation, glad he made it out with recoverable injuries over the alternative. I've had close calls in loc-ons and climbers over the years, you guys busting my chops about me not tying in got me to reevaluate the situation!
 
Totally fair points guys. I guess to further clarify a couple of things.

Traditional stands have been around for many years, and people continue to use them despite the risk and accidents. To combat this problem, many companies came out with safety harnesses. The saddle is the only product that incorporates your safety harness and stand into the same product. A failure in one, is a failure in both...

I certainly agree that individual companies are likely more at risk than the industry as whole. For a hypothetical example, if a Tethrd saddle/platform saw a critical failure that had a bad outcome, they may not have the means to continue doing business. I'd imagine most of the companies in this space, as opposed to traditional treestands, are relatively small businesses.

Interesting perspectives brought up for sure. I agree that if done correctly, it is as safe as anything on the market. I can't help but scratch my head at some of the questions I see posed and wonder if there may be some unintended outcomes from people who don't have a ton of experience.
 
Last year @redsquirrel deemed 2019 - the year of safety and rightly so as there were a lot of questionable uses popping up (read: paracord bridge, etc). I believe it was effective and probably prevented a lot of serious injuries.

Unfortunately the spread of information/popularity has reached a critical mass where the introductoy information has exceeded the nuances of best practices (*cough cough* the cesspool of facebook *cough*). For example "how to saddle hunt" videos on youtube are now a dime a dozen while the number of rock climbing/arborist best practice videos/posts has remained relativley the same. As far as I'm concerned this site is and will always be the best source of information for saddle hunting and best practices.

At this point it's really out of our hands. It is still within our responsibility to point out obvious pitfalls however the information will inevitably be lost in the noise. As long as the manufacturers in the industry do their fair share to stress safety then it is up to the individual to make good choices and take responsibility for their own safety.
 
I think saddle hunting has the possibility to be the safest elevated hunting method.
You would think people have respect for the equipment as their life depends on it,but that level of common sense is missing in some.
Those folks cant be helped in my opinion. We can try,but every product is going to be dangerous when mis-used.
I am a guy that likes to do things for himself but i have not modified any of my saddle gear. Well,i tied a few aiders out of climbing rated webbing,but that is the extent of it.
This is my first year,so playing it safe seemed like a good idea.
So on the whole i think saddle hunting is super safe,but there will always be folks making mistakes in any activity.
 
A couple of the guys building and selling out of their basements are gonna get sued and lose everything. People fall out of stands but how many little guys are making and selling stands. And there's safety certifications and such with stands. A big company has protections that the little guy doesn't.
 
Bdwilliams said:
A couple of the guys building and selling out of their basements are gonna get sued and lose everything. People fall out of stands but how many little guys are making and selling stands. And there's safety certifications and such with stands. A big company has protections that the little guy doesn't.
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That’s why I think these smaller companies would be better off taking the sitdrag approach of saying don’t use this from an elevated position. Seems like they’d be free and clear then.
 
heretic said:
*cough cough* the cesspool of facebook *cough*). For example "how to saddle hunt" videos on youtube are now a dime a dozen while the number of rock climbing/arborist best practice videos/posts has remained relativley the same. As far as I'm concerned this site is and will always be the best source of information for saddle hunting and best practices.
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Yeah, the trendiness and hype factor is gonna hurt folks more than an actual gear failure.

"YOU CAN'T FALL OUT OF ONE!!" sounds way cooler than, "Assuming that you take proper care of good gear, use it within its intended parameters, and take your time and do things right, you are about as safe as you can be 20ft up and alone." Getting safety advice from thinly-disguised brand ambassadors and fanboys is going to end poorly for the less cynical and suspicious. Part of the reason I've taken a step backwards in that area. Too many people asking me, "is this safe?" No. No it isn't. You're climbing a tree with a loaded weapon in a place where it's hard to get an ambulance. You should be mistrustful of the whole enchilada.
 
Hunter260 said:
That’s why I think these smaller companies would be better off taking the sitdrag approach of saying don’t use this from an elevated position. Seems like they’d be free and clear then.
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Not sure if they're free and clear but it seems like they should at least try to add a disclaimer. The sit-drag is marketed as a ground based thing. I'm sure he knows how people are using them, but he's got his disclaimer and markets them for ground use only.
 
Nutterbuster said:
Yeah, the trendiness and hype factor is gonna hurt folks more than an actual gear failure.

"YOU CAN'T FALL OUT OF ONE!!" sounds way cooler than, "Assuming that you take proper care of good gear, use it within its intended parameters, and take your time and do things right, you are about as safe as you can be 20ft up and alone." Getting safety advice from thinly-disguised brand ambassadors and fanboys is going to end poorly for the less cynical and suspicious. Part of the reason I've taken a step backwards in that area. Too many people asking me, "is this safe?" No. No it isn't. You're climbing a tree with a loaded weapon in a place where it's hard to get an ambulance. You should be mistrustful of the whole enchilada.
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Some of those Facebook posts are downright scary. It's not "safe". A lot can go wrong. I don't believe it's inherently safer than a stand, despite what everyone says. I wonder how many more"tree stand" falls will get reported in the next few years than usual.

And how the heck can the EMTs quickly get you when you're 20' up a tree and one-sticked your way there.
 
Bdwilliams said:
Some of those Facebook posts are downright scary. It's not "safe". A lot can go wrong. I don't believe it's inherently safer than a stand, despite what everyone says. I wonder how many more"tree stand" falls will get reported in the next few years than usual.

And how the heck can the EMTs quickly get you when you're 20' up a tree and one-sticked your way there.
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Yeah the Facebook thing would be laughable if there weren't real people with real families behind the posts.
 
I do fully expect injuries to trend upward with the growth of the sport. For sure.

That’s why meetups are so important.

And I commend the folks who have the courage and humility to talk about their accidents on this forum all for the sake of awareness and trying to help the community stay safe.
 
Lot of modifications going on here that honestly are completely unnecessary. Its more fun to do them than to need them. I'd have to assume that, once you modify the original product in any way, you just lost the right to bring suit against the manufacturer anyways, which probably is the cause for 90% of the accidents, the other 10% being incompetent unsafe use.
 
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