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When/how to scout freshest sign?

Does anyone know where to find this book? Looks like it’s not in print anymore or at least not being produced and there’s some insane prices a couple places are asking for it on Amazon. I would like to get a hold of a copy though if possible.


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Westdesign03 said:
Does anyone know where to find this book? Looks like it’s not in print anymore or at least not being produced and there’s some insane prices a couple places are asking for it on Amazon. I would like to get a hold of a copy though if possible.


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I got it on kindle. 5 bucks. There's a 10 dollar paperback also. And a $200 used one that lists with "unprecedented " in the title with little evidence that it's 20x better.
 
Westdesign03 said:
Does anyone know where to find this book? Looks like it’s not in print anymore or at least not being produced and there’s some insane prices a couple places are asking for it on Amazon. I would like to get a hold of a copy though if possible.


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Click to expand...

I just picked it up for $4.99 on Apple Books the other day. So far in reading I have to say, the man backs up his statements with many hours of data. I like that! I have to say though, there is a lot of difference between his area of hunting and mine, but since I understand this I’m able to take away his points and still put it to use in my way. I’m hunting a SW wind today, against his advice, but it’s because it’s my last day to hunt until Oct. 31 and it’s in a place I have been trying to locate a buck but the only access is from the North, hence hunting the SW wind. I did however take his advice and am set up to the NE of a bedding area and between a small ridge and clear cut on an SMZ. The feeding field is also to the NE with plenty of fresh night time sign around it so if he comes out early he’s bound to come nearby, so I hope. Most would probably wait until closer to the rut to bust in here but the problem with trying to wait until the rut around here is that is right at dog season, which changes the whole landscape of things.
 
I always looked for areas with a lot of poop. When the deer leave the bedding area they don't usually go too far before dropping some scat. This, to me is the best sign. I must add I am not a trophy hunter as a 100 to 120 pound field dressed is my favored feasting.
 
Westdesign03 said:
Does anyone know where to find this book? Looks like it’s not in print anymore or at least not being produced and there’s some insane prices a couple places are asking for it on Amazon.
Click to expand...
I ran into that problem too, there are two versions on amazon, here is the current cheap one:

Whitetails: A Research Based Hunting Model: Sheppard M.D., A. Robert: 9781983684890: Amazon.com: Books

Whitetails: A Research Based Hunting Model [Sheppard M.D., A. Robert] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Whitetails: A Research Based Hunting Model
www.amazon.com
 
This Sunday, I cyber scouted a bottom that you had to cross a stream to reach and that had a very steep hill/small mountain to the west. I knew it might be good and the steep topography would cause localized deer activity. I crossed the stream, walked straight to the foot of the hill and walked north (into the wind). I walked almost a mile before I found a huge fresh rub, 2 fresh scrapes, and a large 8 point deadhead (all within 60 yards of each other). It happened to be right where there was cut in the steep hill that I was already interested in and would allow easier deer movement. I set up but only saw does.

I didn't kill a buck, but I still think it shows that you can really narrow it down using topo maps and aerial photos. So, you aren't just walking in randomly. I think cyber scouting is huge.
 
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kyler1945 said:
I think the reason the book resonates with me so much, is that you cannot argue with the findings. They are what they are. Like you said, so many of the things that DON'T help or matter or improve your odds, are just as important. It's about as fundamental, or ground truths, as you can get in regards to improving your odds of killing deer.

I agree with you, if you trust that the person has the experience, and did the work, and when they say "hunt pinch points (in areas with a lot of deer) between food and cover once a year when a cold front hits on a windy day and the wind favors you"...that's great. The problem is many people either don't trust someone, or don't know how to think about the problem to begin with. The book not only says, here's the data, you can't argue the data -it just is...It also teaches you how to perform the experiment. You don't have to hunt the same location, terrain, weather patterns, deer densities, or bag limits as he does. But it shows the value in taking all of these things into consideration. But sometimes hammering home point after point on why some things work and why some things don't, is necessary. Like he says, you don't have to accept it - do what you want. But you can't unknow the information once you've read it. You just make a choice to decrease your odds.
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Honestly - I think my "review" reads significantly more lukewarm than my reaction to the book. The combination of statistics with a collection of illustrative anecdotes does a fantastic job of driving what matters home, and the evidence of what doesn't matter helps to clear the head to better consider what does.
 
kyler1945 said:
Once again, I have worked this concept over elsewhere in this text, but it warrants repeating. The spot seldom hunted is the spot that seldom fails you. This is one of those concepts I have the most trouble driving home to hunters. And it seems those most resistant are the hunters who have enjoyed some modest success. They have engrained hunting patterns etched into their experience that have yielded an occasional deer, perhaps even a good one or two. These typically represent a favorite spot that, in fact, most often meets the criteria of a good spot quite nicely. The hunter may not have really understood what made the spot a good one, but tends to see deer there fairly routinely. Hunting the spot frequently during a season, and then from season to season slowly but surely diminishes its yield. But by this point in time, the hunter has enjoyed too many successful hunts here. A friend of mine who has taken more than 500 whitetails with a bow has kept a detailed diary of his hunts for more than forty years! I asked him about this idea of overhunting a spot one day, and he immediately responded, “Let me show you something.” He pulled out a ragged, worn logbook containing hundreds of hand entries of his personal hunting trips. He showed me the statistics revealing that nearly 70 percent of his successful hunts were represented by the first time he hunted a given spot each season.
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Good points.

A few things I'll add:

1. Anthropomorphizing deer - I have a relative that hunts based upon where he'd like to live if he was a "deer" or what would make a pretty oil painting. He isn't successful. "This area is so beautiful"

2. If you live in an area where you can bait on private land, then you are at huge disadvantage if you don't bait (I'm not advocating baiting here, I don't do it). Understand that most nice bucks people show off were killed over a bait pile. Heck, this is often true even where it is illegal to bait on private land. Don't compare yourself to these hunters.

3. Hunters develop glitches just like how baseball pitchers decide upon lucky underwear (superstition): you get lucky/are successful in one spot and you put too much stock in that area or areas like it. Sometimes you did everything wrong and got lucky. Downplay those successes in your mind accordingly.

4. Travel corridors don't mean anything if there is no reason for deer to travel through there. This is like local government wants to build a road to nowhere to encourage development that never comes. I've sat in perfect topographic features to funnel deer movement in the big woods, but never saw a deer because there was no reason for them to be there. This is why when digital scouting I always look for land cover changes/attractants first and topography second, before I ever put boots on ground.

5. I only hunt areas where other hunters might be very early in the season. After the first week or two, I no longer hunt small public parcels with easy access because very soon the deer figure out what is up and leave. I have shot decent bucks in these areas but it was early on. I then start hunting large woods with more difficult access and specifically look for spots other hunters won't travel to (crossing rivers, walking long ways, no parking, etc). Sadly, my area is riddled with obesity and drug abuse, and this has helped me because a lot of people can't walk a mile up a hill with a pack on their back.

6. We should strive for the perfect spot with the perfect wind with the sun in the deer's eyes, etc. But it rarely comes together just like that. Don't get paralyzed by over analysis (letting perfect be enemy of the good). If a spot is good but the wind is a little swirly (it almost always is in the hills) and the tree is a little thin but I have cover, then I'll probably hunt it and won't necessarily walk around stinking up the woods with my footprints for another hour.

7. I took this from The Hunting Public, but try to find at least one thing to use to your advantage (even what might seem bad). For instance, next weekend is a 2 day doe season. I'll have to wear orange and have added pressure, but maybe I can get in early and set up where the deer will move to once other hunters wind bump them.
 
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five said:
I ran into that problem too, there are two versions on amazon, here is the current cheap one:

Whitetails: A Research Based Hunting Model: Sheppard M.D., A. Robert: 9781983684890: Amazon.com: Books

Whitetails: A Research Based Hunting Model [Sheppard M.D., A. Robert] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Whitetails: A Research Based Hunting Model
www.amazon.com
Click to expand...

Had some Amazon credits and got the Kindle version for $1.49.

Loving this thread. Hunting fresh sign is something relatively new to me since I started hunting mostly public land. If the sign's not there I can cross of certain areas that may not be fruitful. If I start bumping deer, I know I'm in it. Growing up my older brother basically picked the spots for our ladder stands or blinds and that's where I hunted. I killed deer but not necessarily because of looking at deer sign. It was because I was sitting along a funnel or field edge and a deer happened to walk by that day.
It took a while but it finally dawned on me that if I'm not sitting on fresh sign I'm basically just counting on luck to kill a deer. No point in climbing a tree and sitting in an area just to possibly see a deer. There was an interview with one of the D'Acquistos, Cody I think, and he basically said he isn't climbing a tree just to climb it. He's not just trying to just see deer. He's in that specific area, at that specific time, to kill a deer. He emphasized that the "virgin" sit gives the best opportunity to kill a buck. That's one thing I like about saddle hunting and something that THP has mentioned. You feel less obligated to hang a saddle setup than you would with a hang on simply because of the effort to carry it in. With less bulk it's easier to scout and you can hunt from the ground if needed and not feel obligated to hang a set-up. I'm bad about not doing post season scouting even though I tell myself every year I'm going to get out there. So I basically rely on in season intel. But this next post season for sure this time.
 
Any of you "find the hot sign" hunting from the ground when hot sign is found but no suitable trees to climb. Say a 8-10 year old pine forest where trees are small and still a little dense. That happened to me last week, and I choose to keep walking. Never found better sign and settled on climbing a tree. Did not see a thing.
 
predatorhunter said:
Any of you "find the hot sign" hunting from the ground when hot sign is found but no suitable trees to climb. Say a 8-10 year old pine forest where trees are small and still a little dense. That happened to me last week, and I choose to keep walking. Never found better sign and settled on climbing a tree. Did not see a thing.
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If it's a great area and I have some cover, I'll hunt from the ground.
 
I had every day pics of good bucks in August, daylight pics and just before sunset pics. I set up for 7 sits in 7 different tees since September 11th at 4 locations that I had the August pics, never sitting in the same spot within the same week and haven’t seen anything.

I started researching and found Dan Infalt and the Acquisto boys and everything has changed for me mentally. I’ve found the hot sign but I am more focused on getting the best intel now before setting up again. They’ve really changed my whole mindset on hunting. And I genuinely love getting in the woods to scout now with no expectations of setting up unless I’m on the hot sign.

I’m new to hunting but I’ve been saltwater sight fishing with a fly rod for years and it’s almost the same concept. Walking the flats looking for fish instead of standing in random places and false casting all day.. without finding the sign it’s just a waste of time and I’m also only a public land weekend warrior.

Always looking for my info so subbed to this thread.


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Hunter260 said:
I view hunting whitetails similar to bass fishing. All of the beginners go stand on the dock and drop their lines in the water. They think that just because they’re in the water they have as much chance to catch a fish as anyone. This is just the same as the guy sitting on the field edge 200 yards from the parking lot no matter the time of year or wind or sign. He thinks he’s in the game. But let’s talk about who’s out there actually catching the fish. They’re on big bass boats with thousands of dollars of equipment specifically designed to get them in places where the fish are. They’ll even spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a rod that can get them the extra 5 feet in a cast. That’s how important LOCATION is in hunting. If you don’t hunt hot sign and I mean right on top of hot sign, you’ve got a better chance to run a deer over driving home.
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This 100%. I break state land down like I do a lake for fishing. I’m not going to catch bass in 90 ft of water and I’m not going to catch walleye in 3 ft of water in the Lilly pads. Find the areas where big bucks would go and won’t go. Thick nasty cover, marsh islands, transitions from swamp to hardwoods, fingers that out into marshes.
 
I have also started hunting more mobile this year since I am hunting a saddle now. I really like the idea of finding the got sign and hunting it. One thing that has kept me from doing that in the past is that I felt like I would bust too many deer and they would change patterns or ruin a spot with scent from walking around it to much. I don't crash through the woods or just wander aimlessly but still worried about that. I have always put a lot of effort into plotting out my approach and my retreat from a given stand. So my question is how do you guys deal with that? What methods do you employ to keep the area relatively pure?

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