Who needs a safeguard? - interesting figure 8 technique

[CharlieTN]

I stumbled across this video yesterday. I can’t understand what he’s saying but he’s methodical enough in demonstrating the technique that I could easily see what he was doing. Basically he creates an auto-locking descending rig using a figure-8, short sling, and spare carabiner. Pretty neat setup, and it can be used for ascending as well.

Thought you all might enjoy it.

 

[Eaton35]

Dang that is so simple. I like it. I’ll have to try that.


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[CharlieTN]

Dang that is so simple. I like it. I’ll have to try that.


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That was my first thought as well. I have a figure 8 coming today and some 9mm canyon rope to switch over to one-stick and rappelling. I’ll definitely give it a try.

 

[CooterBrown]

I stumbled across this video yesterday. I can’t understand what he’s saying but he’s methodical enough in demonstrating the technique that I could easily see what he was doing. Basically he creates an auto-locking descending rig using a figure-8, short sling, and spare carabiner. Pretty neat setup, and it can be used for ascending as well.

Thought you all might enjoy it.

That is cool

 

[Eaton35]

That was my first thought as well. I have a figure 8 coming today and some 9mm canyon rope to switch over to one-stick and rappelling. I’ll definitely give it a try.

Let me know how it turns out!


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[CooterBrown]

My problem is I'm using Maxim 5MM tech cord as my rope and I have to double wrap my 8 to have enough resistance so not sure if this would work with my rope. Any ideas are appreciated.

 

[tmattson]

I bought the Grivel Figure 8 from DanO, to test with Oplux. Still playing with it from safe elevation, but works great. You can do a double pass (rescue mode) if your a bigger guy or just like added friction. It's light, compact, and even has a concave and convex side for additional friction options.

 

[sawyer]

My problem is I'm using Maxim 5MM tech cord as my rope and I have to double wrap my 8 to have enough resistance so not sure if this would work with my rope. Any ideas are appreciated.

I don't think there are many techniques that will work with 5MM accessory cord because it's not really meant to be used as a main rope. Most rope tools will have a rope thickness rating that you should follow for your own safety.

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[mtsrunner]

I messed around with this exact technique earlier this year. It was great until it wasn’t. And then I fell about 12’ flat on my back.
Watch the video at about 3:30 minute mark. See how he kind of struggles to get the rope to release? That’s the issue I had, except it was super, super hard to release. When I finally pulled with all my might, it fully released, and I free fell to the ground.
Cost me a trip to the ER, a CT scan and two months of recovery.
Having said that, I should have had it backed up. My fault. I still wouldn’t use this technique again.

 

[CharlieTN]

I messed around with this exact technique earlier this year. It was great until it wasn’t. And then I fell about 12’ flat on my back.
Watch the video at about 3:30 minute mark. See how he kind of struggles to get the rope to release? That’s the issue I had, except it was super, super hard to release. When I finally pulled with all my might, it fully released, and I free fell to the ground.
Cost me a trip to the ER, a CT scan and two months of recovery.
Having said that, I should have had it backed up. My fault. I still wouldn’t use this technique again.

I’m not sure on the safeguard from mad rock but I know when i watch people us a Grigi they use it incorrectly. The handle is not intended to be a clutch/brake, but a release. You still have to use the brake hand to control the descent.

I said that because I wonder if that is what happened to you, when it finally released, you didn’t have enough hold on the braking end. Not critiquing, just trying to learn. With any sort of “auto-lock” method or equipment you have to be careful of the sudden releases. Thanks for sharing

 

[gcr0003]

For those that don’t speak Spanish my wife translated for me. The main thing he says at the end is that it unsafe to use the Italian method without that second caribiner. The one that prevents the rope from feeding out of the figure 8. He also mentions that you need to make sure you attach the second caribiner correctly or your rope Or it could still pull out.

It’s probably not a huge concern at the short distance that we are rappelling but everyone should be aware of the risks before choosing to use themselves.

 

[CharlieTN]

I bought the Grivel Figure 8 from DanO, to test with Oplux. Still playing with it from safe elevation, but works great. You can do a double pass (rescue mode) if your a bigger guy or just like added friction. It's light, compact, and even has a concave and convex side for additional friction options.

A lot of people don’t realize that there is more than one way to rig a Figure-8. I’m a heavier guy and have to rig one, especially on smaller diameter ropes, for extra friction. The classic manner doesn’t work so well for me.

 

[CooterBrown]

A lot of people don’t realize that there is more than one way to rig a Figure-8. I’m a heavier guy and have to rig one, especially on smaller diameter ropes, for extra friction. The classic manner doesn’t work so well for me.

I'm only 160 but with the Maxim 5mm Tech cord i have to double wrap to get the friction. What alternant method do you use to get more friction?

 

[Ontariofarmer]

My problem is I'm using Maxim 5MM tech cord as my rope and I have to double wrap my 8 to have enough resistance so not sure if this would work with my rope. Any ideas are appreciated.

Even though that rope is strong I would be uncomfortable using it to rappel.


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[bj139]

When I saw this method before I expressed concern that the rope could come off the figure 8. I like using devices that lock on and cannot be removed easily. Mechanically assisted belay devices are fine for me. Even an ATC is less safe, IMHO.

 

[bj139]

I messed around with this exact technique earlier this year. It was great until it wasn’t. And then I fell about 12’ flat on my back.
Watch the video at about 3:30 minute mark. See how he kind of struggles to get the rope to release? That’s the issue I had, except it was super, super hard to release. When I finally pulled with all my might, it fully released, and I free fell to the ground.
Cost me a trip to the ER, a CT scan and two months of recovery.
Having said that, I should have had it backed up. My fault. I still wouldn’t use this technique again.

Thanks for posting this. I was thinking of giving it a try. I won't.

 

[CooterBrown]

Even though that rope is strong I would be uncomfortable using it to rappel.


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Why? its as strong as other ropes

 

[CharlieTN]

I'm only 160 but with the Maxim 5mm Tech cord i have to double wrap to get the friction. What alternant method do you use to get more friction?

The smaller diameter makes getting enough friction hard, as you have noticed. Really, with a figure 8, the double wrap is the best way to add more friction. If you need to you can pass the braking end back through your carabiner to add a bit more friction. One other technique is to pass the braking end underneath you and use your opposite hand to brake. Basically your backside adds a whole bunch more friction. As others have commented, if you’re having to double up the 5mm, then you should consider stepping up to the 8-9mm rope range.

 

[CharlieTN]

When I saw this method before I expressed concern that the rope could come off the figure 8. I like using devices that lock on and cannot be removed easily. Mechanically assisted belay devices are fine for me. Even an ATC is less safe, IMHO.

Honestly the issue of the knot coming off is my only concern with this technique and that is the purpose of the spare carabiner. I would imagine under the usage we do, and especially if you added a friction knot backup, that chance should be greatly reduced if not almost completely reduced.

One thought I had, since the presenter was using what looked to be an 11mm rope, and many of us use 8-9mm rope, you could rig it the same way using the smaller end and having that large open end should also help greatly reduce the chance of it coming off in addition to the added carabiner. Just thinking through this alternative technique.

 

[bj139]

Honestly the issue of the knot coming off is my only concern with this technique and that is the purpose of the spare carabiner. I would imagine under the usage we do, and especially if you added a friction knot backup, that chance should be greatly reduced if not almost completely reduced.

One thought I had, since the presenter was using what looked to be an 11mm rope, and many of us use 8-9mm rope, you could rig it the same way using the smaller end and having that large open end should also help greatly reduce the chance of it coming off in addition to the added carabiner. Just thinking through this alternative technique.

He shows how even with the additional carabiner on, there would be nothing preventing you from falling to the ground. Your safety tether would still be wrapped around the rope as you're laying on the ground but that would be little consolation. I will keep using my belay devices. For beginning climbers, using this figure eight technique might be even worse than I can imagine.