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Who needs a safeguard? - interesting figure 8 technique

bj139 said:
He shows how even with the additional carabiner on, there would be nothing preventing you from falling to the ground. Your safety tether would still be wrapped around the rope as you're laying on the ground but that would be little consolation. I will keep using my belay devices. For beginning climbers, using this figure eight technique might be even worse than I can imagine.
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My grigri is worth it's weight in gold. The ATC with an autoblock works nicely for me too even as a big guy at 250lb but the confidence I get from the grigri is hard to beat. I get that the price can be a bit hard to swallow but save your money by not running ropemans on your tether and lanyard or by building a DIY platform. In my mind's eye there is no price too high to keep me from falling out of a tree.

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I did this method all last season and it worked but to a certain degree. Firstly, if using a carabiner directly on the Figure 8, it will scrape and scratch the hell out of each other when force/weight is applied. To the point, I wouldn't feel safe using the Figure 8 for more than one season with how bad they were scrapping against each other when trying to disengage the lock. Secondly, if using the figure 8 in this method in freezing temps its a PITA. The ropes freeze up if rained on and make it a you know what to try and get through the figure 8. I now use the Figure 8 in recuse mode after I'm done for the day:

1599147243053.png

Much much easier to get down and so much less effort than the autolock method. Alternatively could always just tie off the Figure 8 as follows if needing to collect steps and what not.

1599147582142.png

Just some food for thought.
 
NikoTheBowHunter said:
I did this method all last season and it worked but to a certain degree. Firstly, if using a carabiner directly on the Figure 8, it will scrape and scratch the hell out of each other when force/weight is applied. To the point, I wouldn't feel safe using the Figure 8 for more than one season with how bad they were scrapping against each other when trying to disengage the lock. Secondly, if using the figure 8 in this method in freezing temps its a PITA. The ropes freeze up if rained on and make it a you know what to try and get through the figure 8. I now use the Figure 8 in recuse mode after I'm done for the day:

View attachment 33613

Much much easier to get down and so much less effort than the autolock method. Alternatively could always just tie off the Figure 8 as follows if needing to collect steps and what not.

View attachment 33615

Just some food for thought.
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that looks like a double wrap 8 to me.
 
CharlieTN said:
I’m not sure on the safeguard from mad rock but I know when i watch people us a Grigi they use it incorrectly. The handle is not intended to be a clutch/brake, but a release. You still have to use the brake hand to control the descent.

I said that because I wonder if that is what happened to you, when it finally released, you didn’t have enough hold on the braking end. Not critiquing, just trying to learn. With any sort of “auto-lock” method or equipment you have to be careful of the sudden releases. Thanks for sharing
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I think you’re right. I definitely had a sudden release. I’ve rappelled a bunch and know better than to take my brake hand off the rope, but something obviously went very wrong.
 
mtsrunner said:
I messed around with this exact technique earlier this year. It was great until it wasn’t. And then I fell about 12’ flat on my back.
Watch the video at about 3:30 minute mark. See how he kind of struggles to get the rope to release? That’s the issue I had, except it was super, super hard to release. When I finally pulled with all my might, it fully released, and I free fell to the ground.
Cost me a trip to the ER, a CT scan and two months of recovery.
Having said that, I should have had it backed up. My fault. I still wouldn’t use this technique again.
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You always need a back up pursik
 
mdKlein said:
You always need a back up pursik
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I don’t know what a ‘pursik’ is, but as I stated above I should have backed it up with some type of friction hitch. Like maybe a prusik or prussic, or Klemheist, or autoblock French Prusik.
 
These figure 8 work great and WAY cheaper than a safeguard. Especially with safeguards having disappeared off the planet. I use a ropeman to ascend and when I’m ready to rappel out of the tree I tie the figure 8 into my line with a second carabiner above the ropeman. Put my right hand on the brake line, open the ropeman with the left hand and descend. If I have to stop I just let go of the ropeman. It’s a bit more bulky than having just the madrock but I like having two points of connection. Those figure 8 weigh nothing, so I carry a spare one in my saddle just in case I get clumsy in the dark and drop it while tying my line in. Lol
 
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