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Why can’t I use a Ropeman 1 as my primary stop on tether?

elk yinzer said:
I would hope to see more testing in the future as tetherd creates more of a one-stop shop bringing this gear to the masses, and they certainly appear to promote usage of the ropeman by selling it. I've seen conflicting data, none of which I fully trust about the ropeman 1. Not sure where the 15kN came from. I saw a thread on a climbing or arborist source that rope failure occurred at 4 or 5kN. I'll have to dig that back up again.

I am not vigilant about keeping slack out of my system, sometimes I just stand on my platform with slack. That's why I don't like it as a tether for myself. I also don't adjust my tether much once I am tied in like I am constantly adjusting a linemans belt, so that function isn't needed.

I agree that properly used, it's safe. I just figure when you start selling this stuff to jabroni's with no clue what they are doing, it's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Also notable is that the ropeman 2 has a higher rating than the ropeman 1. I have both and visibly the components are a good deal beefier. It tears up ropes with soft sheaths but if you choose the right rope, that aspect is way overstated. I don't really get why the 1 was universally adopted on here.
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I have read similar things in the past. That is why I started to back it up with a prussic. I use the sterling hollow block to make a prussic. It is light and can be used on ropes as small as 7mm. This is important when I use 8 mm rope as a tether. Then I am using a CT roll and lock or a ropeman 2 or a duck kong on the smaller rope.

The sterling is rated at 14 kn. and will not cut the rope off like an ascender.

https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5033-...MIiuaEn66X3QIVjMDACh14-AgmEAYYASABEgK9lfD_BwE
 
Ontariofarmer said:
This is true - it is easy and cheap and is the ropeman only rated at about 4 kn in a dynamic type fall? Or are we wrong about that???
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I'm not seeing where it's only rated for 4kn? I can't find that info. Anyone here find it?
 
flinginairos said:
I'm not seeing where it's only rated for 4kn? I can't find that info. Anyone here find it?
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If I am correct they actually dont rate it for KN because it is not designed to be used in a shock loaded(dynamic) fall situation. There are reports that it shreds the rope at or just below 4kn: https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/109434681
slippage report_mountain project.jpg
And the wild country manual rates it at 400kg, and specifically states not to be shock loaded.
metolius ratings.jpg

They are frowned upon in the climbing world as a regular use product for self belaying/etc due to the angle of the teeth creating excessive wear on the rope.

Here is the full manual attached. Interpret at your own risk, but I do not believe any of us should state it has a strength of "4kn" since the manufacturer does not rate it for dynamic falls....That is incorrect and misleading in my opinion.
 

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  • ropeman manual.pdf
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Vtbow said:
There are reports that it shreds the rope at or just below 4kn: https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/109434681
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I guess that is what I read in the past. I think the device is rated at 15 kn but it will cut the rope with 4 kn which is not much. A stopper knot is below the ropeman is useless with a cut rope- with a cut rope you will fall. With a prusik above you will not fall. A prusik is really likely not necessary the way we use the ropeman but it is also light simple and easy to use above the ropeman. I think we have talked about this in the past. Do we need it? All climbing has some risk so it comes down to what risks I personally feel I want to take.

I feel pretty comfortable without a prusik above the ropeman but because it is simple, easy, light and cheap - I use it.
 
Here are some other strentch and LBF vs Kn numbers as well as some other great strength info if people are interested or doing gear research. Though I believe we are probably using all our gear WAY below the limits., I think its important for people to understand their gear and what it was/wasn't designed for:
 

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  • Graphs-of-cord-and-webbing-strengths1.pdf
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Ontariofarmer said:
I guess that is what I read in the past. I think the device is rated at 15 kn but it will cut the rope with 4 kn which is not much. A stopper knot is below the ropeman is useless with a cut rope- with a cut rope you will fall. With a prusik above you will not fall. A prusik is really likely not necessary the way we use the ropeman but it is also light simple and easy to use above the ropeman. I think we have talked about this in the past. Do we need it? All climbing has some risk so it comes down to what risks I personally feel I want to take.

I feel pretty comfortable without a prusik above the ropeman but because it is simple, easy, light and cheap - I use it.
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Right on-sound advice and reasoning, and we all have to do what we feel comfortable with based upon our experience and comfort levels!
 
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DaveT1963 said:
If you are worried about a ropeman failure - Tie a prussic in over top of it and loop it in the carbineer on your ropeman. That way, if the ropeman does fail it will catch you. And by keeping a little slack in the prussic it is easily moved with ropeman.
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So you must have a long tail tied to the beaner

Can someone send me a pic of how this works?
 
Bowtech12 said:
I’m new here but all these ratings have me confused

The Ropeman 1 is rated for 15kN which is about 3300 lbs

I want to use that in place of my pursek knot on my tether but I found a thread saying you shouldn’t.

Geess I’m only 170 lbs so why not?
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You are fine to use a ropeman as long as you address the following. First make sure you are using the proper diameter rope with the ropeman. Second tie a stopper knot in the end of your tether if you have enough rope tail left. Third i just like to tie a figure 8 and attach that also into my tether carabiner. This serves as rope management and less slack incase of a slip or fall!! The third is optional but it doesn’t hurt to add from my perspective.

Just a reminder there should never be slack lines in your system. This is a static in nature system and dynamic stresses are a no no. Don’t bounce ever and always keep tension in your system. Safety first leads to happy no worries hunting!!!
 
Note this was just an overhand knot and note the figure 8. Serves the same purpose!!
 
Thanks @Vtbow, you beat me to it. Here’s the whole report those tables are pulled from.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf/2001/crr01364.pdf

Made me do some serious searching there. I knew I found it once awhile back.

Really the whole report is pretty interesting, it is testing of all sorts of PPE equipment. Goes into testing of various knots and hitches, ascenders, anchors, damaged and dirty ropes, a lot of good real world stuff.

The section with ascenders starts on page 40 of the pdf, the Ropeman testing summary is on page 56. In all the testing on 11.5-12 mm ropes, the Ropeman sheared the rope around 3.5-4kN. That’s about 800 pounds, certainly not a rating I want to trust with my life. Then keep in mind too a lot of guys use 9mm ropes or so, surely the rating is even less at that point. Starts to make the prospect of a fall with any kind of shock load a little scary.

I’m not a safety expert or an engineer, I’m just using the information available to safely use my equipment knowing the potential for a dynamic fall exists in my system. It’s just common sense, real world, stuff happens, that is why we amplify our safety factors.

As popular as platforms are becoming with this hybrid saddle style, I find it hard to believe I am the only one standing up there rotating for shots with a foot or two of slack in my tether. Can't be. I've seen it in youtubes where guys do the same thing.

You’re only as strong as the weakest point in your system and we are using ropes and saddles rated to hold a jeep, then hang by a rope clamp that turns into a rope scissor at far, far lesser weight. There is absolutely no doubt that of all the gear widely accepted and now being commercially promoted, it is the weakest link by far and it’s not even close. I was really surprised when I saw that.
 
Vtbow said:
Here are some other strentch and LBF vs Kn numbers as well as some other great strength info if people are interested or doing gear research. Though I believe we are probably using all our gear WAY below the limits., I think its important for people to understand their gear and what it was/wasn't designed for:
Click to expand...

Capture.JPG
I've wondered before does this concept apply to a Blakes' hitch vs. a continous loop hitch i.e. prusik/klemheist? Is the loop stronger than the blake's because of that, or being a friction hitch is that negated?
 
elk yinzer said:
View attachment 5949
I've wondered before does this concept apply to a Blakes' hitch vs. a continous loop hitch i.e. prusik/klemheist? Is the loop stronger than the blake's because of that, or being a friction hitch is that negated?
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Good question. Yes it does apply to a friction hitch. The only point where I see it being applicable though is where you are using a friction hitch in a z-drag or mechanical advantage type rescue or hauling system and applying massive force to the anchor point on the friction hitch.. Think about it, technically if you are clipped into an autoblock, you are attached to 2 self equalizing loops(4 strands), kleimheist, 1 loop(2 strands). Blakes is a single strand. The weight/pressure is spread over each of those looped strands the distance from where your are clipped in, to their contact points at the start of the wraps at your rope. Consider the friction knot itself a solid anchor point.
 
Folks - visualize it a prussic knot sitting right on top of your ropeman1, then clip it into the carbineer. Not that difficult to envision.
 
DaveT1963 said:
If you are worried about a ropeman failure - Tie a prussic in over top of it and loop it in the carbineer on your ropeman. That way, if the ropeman does fail it will catch you. And by keeping a little slack in the prussic it is easily moved with ropeman.
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Dave or others - please help me understand this - I can see that if the prusik is not under load that it would probably be easy to move along with your Ropeman - though I wonder the benefit of the Ropeman on the tether then - are you adjust with one hand or still need two hands to adjust the tether length? Also, IF there is an improperly long fall due to error of the hunter leaving slack in the line, I thought the concer was that the Ropeman could potentially cut the tether at that point (vs. just breaking and having the stopper knot somehow save you while snapping you to attention. IF the tether were to get sheared off by the Ropeman on a fall, do you think the prusik would have enough tether left to properly "bight" and stop you? Seem like it'd be coming off that tether. If you leave the prusik really "long", maybe that would help to keep it farther up the tether line so it would function more suredly, but then it's a pain to move, causes you to run out of adjustment fast at the tree, etc. Please help me understand. Many thanks.
 
I didn't say I do it - I just said if you are worried about it. If my ropemen 1 ever does fail it will be because I got stupid and didn't keep it under tension and my platform would have to break at same time.

AND I ALWAYS HAVE A STOPPER KNOT AT THE END OF MY TETHER OR A LOOP HOOKED BACK INTO CARBINEER.
 
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