Why it's important to have a redundant lock/block

[Newhunter1]

So this past week, I went on a hunt and used a different rappel system, and used it as I was one sticking up the tree. I normally used the Safeguard and wanted to try something different. So I switched up to the Grivel Figure 8 and backed it up with a michoacan friction hitch. So I'm climbing, and I set my rope so it locks on the figure 8 (wrapped twice so it pinches) and start to move my stick up the tree for the 3rd time. All of a sudden the rope that I wrapped twice popped out and I went sliding down the tree in a almost controlled slide. That is until my autolock engaged and it stopped me cold about a foot below my stick. All in all I think I slide down the tree 4-5' but my butt sucked undies...

With that said, having an autoblock on is a life saver. I never climb without my friction hitch attached to my right side lineman's loops. I just wish I had taken out the slack between my friction hitch and my figure 8.

I have since switched back to safeguard.

 

[Weldabeast]

Glad u had a backup....my first question would be why it happened. Rope routed incorrectly, wrong diameter rope/device combo, wet/dusty/dirts conditions... I have read the thread about the figure 8 rappel and I think even watched a video but didn't pay much attention so I don't know exactly how it works but friction is friction....

 

[Newhunter1]

Glad u had a backup....my first question would be why it happened. Rope routed incorrectly, wrong diameter rope/device combo, wet/dusty/dirts conditions... I have read the thread about the figure 8 rappel and I think even watched a video but didn't pay much attention so I don't know exactly how it works but friction is friction....

Honestly I don't know why it slipped. I took the tag end and wrapped it around the loop and pinched it in there. It worked the day before as I as standing on my platform and leaning. I guess it worked until it didn't. I won't use that again until I figure out a better solution. Like I said, I went back to the safeguard.

 

[7mmremmag]

Glad you're alright man. Thanks for sharing the experience.

 

[Weldabeast]

So...this is kinda unrelated but shows how a little carelessness matters.....my climbing method attaches to the trunk with a timber hitch and 9mm black htp(?) rope...I use that rope because of it's tougher more abrasive resistance stealth/texture and it bites into itself very well....I don't have stand offs with teether or anything like that to bite except the friction of the hitch and the cantilever action of the rope once I load it... There is a little slip of the hitch when first loading it...no way around it...and some trees (looking at u flaky bark pine trees) were the slip is significantly more....if I wrap the wraps from over the top and down toward the ground the rolling of the rope down the tree combined with flaky bark and the hitch can easily become too loose before biting into itself and i will have to start over vs if I just remember/route correctly from underneath and up the rolling of the rope onto itself tightens the hitch faster and it will bite quickly...silly little thing, down and around and up vs up and around and down....sounds so stupid/pointless but if I forget I can slip because of it. Maybe this is hard to Invision if u have never played with timber hitches to much but I think that this example can transition over to what happened with u...

 

[Led Boots]

Glad to hear the your backup did it's job. 4-5 feet would be enough for me to have a heart attack

Instead of trying the double wrap over the top, try to orient the Figure 8 horizontally.. You run the rope through it the same, but you clip your carabiner to the side of the big top loop instead of the bottom. This guy shows a pretty good example. It seems to lock better than the wrap method.

Climbing Tools - Figure 8 Descender in Ascent Mode - YouTube

 

[TexaninSconny]

I’ve only heard negative feedback about the Grivel Figure 8. I hear regular is much easier to work with.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[mlk3454]

For what its worth when I rappel down and grab my stick using the figure 8 (black diamond) I use a double wrap to hold me and remove one wrap for a simple finger pinch controlled rappel the rest of the way down. I use C-IV on the standard Black Diamond figure 8. The single wrap has never held me but the double has been rock solid. Glad the backup got ya!

 

[Praddle]

I keep my autoblock klemheist attached from rappel rope to my lineman's loop at all times and when I attach the figure 8 I load weight onto the system and don't need to do any wraps around the 8 to hold myself in place. I used to do the double wrap, then single and found I didn't need either... super simple. Descent stops as soon as I release the squeeze on the autoblock and holds rock solid. I use 9mm canyon for rappel rope.

 

[doriangable]

So this past week, I went on a hunt and used a different rappel system, and used it as I was one sticking up the tree. I normally used the Safeguard and wanted to try something different. So I switched up to the Grivel Figure 8 and backed it up with a michoacan friction hitch. So I'm climbing, and I set my rope so it locks on the figure 8 (wrapped twice so it pinches) and start to move my stick up the tree for the 3rd time. All of a sudden the rope that I wrapped twice popped out and I went sliding down the tree in a almost controlled slide. That is until my autolock engaged and it stopped me cold about a foot below my stick. All in all I think I slide down the tree 4-5' but my butt sucked undies...

With that said, having an autoblock on is a life saver. I never climb without my friction hitch attached to my right side lineman's loops. I just wish I had taken out the slack between my friction hitch and my figure 8.

I have since switched back to safeguard.

When you relieve tension on any figure eight, that second or even the first wrap and come out and down you go. I rappel with a figure eight and from the time I leave the ground to the time I’m ready to rappel down, I’m tied in with a Michoacán. When it’s time to rappel, I put my lineman belt around the tree to relieve tension on my rappel rope, “tie” my figure eight into my line so to speak and move my Michoacán down to my lineman loop, loosen my lineman belt and sit back into the rappel rope and down I go. I tried the double wrap on the figure eight but it never stays and I don’t trust it, the Michoacán always has held for me even after I relieve tension.

I’d attach a picture of the setup but iPhone pics are too big.

 

[CharlieTN]

I’m not sure how you locked off the figure-8 but the most common method I see people use works great, as long as you keep tension on it. Perhaps you allowed a bit of slack, just enough, to let the rope pop free. Either way, what happened to you is good proof of why you need a backup on those types of descenders.

When I first started one-sticking and rappelling I climbed using a Schwabisch hitch as my attachment to the rappel rope/tether for the climb and the hunt. I would then switch over to the figure-8 for the rappel down with the Schwabisch moved down as a backup below the figure-8. For myself, the figure-8 is just too much hassle and too much noise to climb with attached to the rope. Yet I wanted the ability to rappel at any point for safety reasons so I switched to the Safeguard and haven’t looked back.

 

[Mr. Vince]

So this past week, I went on a hunt and used a different rappel system, and used it as I was one sticking up the tree. I normally used the Safeguard and wanted to try something different. So I switched up to the Grivel Figure 8 and backed it up with a michoacan friction hitch. So I'm climbing, and I set my rope so it locks on the figure 8 (wrapped twice so it pinches) and start to move my stick up the tree for the 3rd time. All of a sudden the rope that I wrapped twice popped out and I went sliding down the tree in a almost controlled slide. That is until my autolock engaged and it stopped me cold about a foot below my stick. All in all I think I slide down the tree 4-5' but my butt sucked undies...

With that said, having an autoblock on is a life saver. I never climb without my friction hitch attached to my right side lineman's loops. I just wish I had taken out the slack between my friction hitch and my figure 8.

I have since switched back to safeguard.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MNMosquitoAssassin]

It's good to hear that being extra careful, and backing yourself up helped you out, and to hear you're ok. Personally, I don't think I would climb with the figure 8, I would use a friction knot during the climb. I would only rappel with it.

 

[Newhunter1]

It's good to hear that being extra careful, and backing yourself up helped you out, and to hear you're ok. Personally, I don't think I would climb with the figure 8, I would use a friction knot during the climb. I would only rappel with it.

If I decide to stop using the Safeguard then that's what I'll use. No more figure 8 for climbing...I believe I did introduce slack and the second wrap popped out.

 

[thedutchtouch]

When you relieve tension on any figure eight, that second or even the first wrap and come out and down you go. I rappel with a figure eight and from the time I leave the ground to the time I’m ready to rappel down, I’m tied in with a Michoacán. When it’s time to rappel, I put my lineman belt around the tree to relieve tension on my rappel rope, “tie” my figure eight into my line so to speak and move my Michoacán down to my lineman loop, loosen my lineman belt and sit back into the rappel rope and down I go. I tried the double wrap on the figure eight but it never stays and I don’t trust it, the Michoacán always has held for me even after I relieve tension.

I’d attach a picture of the setup but iPhone pics are too big.

Take a screenshot of the photo on your phone, and upload the screenshot.

 

[Sempertodd]

Glad you was smart enough to back it up, we all should. The few dollars and time is worth it.

 

[Newhunter1]

Glad you was smart enough to back it up, we all should. The few dollars and time is worth it.

You ain't kidding...last august I was testing my shikar stick about 3-4 off the ground. The folding stick collapsed (my fault, not the stick) and down I went. My knee buckled and I ended up tearing my ACL. Had to have my ACL completely replaced with a tendon from my leg/Knee this past January. My tether at the time was not tight nor was my bridge tight. Hit the ground and my knee literally locked and I felt the painful pop. Had to hobble back to the truck using a sapling I had to cut as a walking stick. That sucked.

 

[MNMosquitoAssassin]

You ain't kidding...last august I was testing my shikar stick about 3-4 off the ground. The folding stick collapsed (my fault, not the stick) and down I went. My knee buckled and I ended up tearing my ACL. Had to have my ACL completely replaced with a tendon from my leg/Knee this past January. My tether at the time was not tight nor was my bridge tight. Hit the ground and my knee literally locked and I felt the painful pop. Had to hobble back to the truck using a sapling I had to cut as a walking stick. That sucked.

Just hearing that makes me cringe...