Wild Line Ropes Featherlite Lineman's Belt

[dhoff545]

Wild Line is selling a lineman's made out of Beal Back Up Line and a 7/64 amsteel friction hitch of some sort. They are advertising it as one handed adjustment without a tender, and the couple reviews that have hit the FB groups demonstrate that. Anybody taken that for a spin? I have some concerns but ordered one to try out because it was under $40 with shipping and I'm interested. Any thing you'd like to see tested?

 

[iamcorey]

I've saw a YT video on it, but I'm pretty content with my paracord with dental floss friction hitch.

 

[Marmuzz]

Didn’t watch the YouTube video and not a knots expert but if it’s one handed adjustable without a tender that to me translates as slippage. I’d be concerned about those materials holding in the event of a fall. I don’t think rock climbers or arborists use Amsteel for friction hitches…maybe saddle hunters shouldn’t either.

Edit: Looking closer at the pictures on their site I’m realizing depending on the exact knot they have it could break/grab tension easily enough one handed. I prefer the security of a solid prusik with a tender on a LB and the tender weighs only peanuts. I still have worries about the material selections.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Wild Line is selling a lineman's made out of Beal Back Up Line and a 7/64 amsteel friction hitch of some sort. They are advertising it as one handed adjustment without a tender, and the couple reviews that have hit the FB groups demonstrate that. Anybody taken that for a spin? I have some concerns but ordered one to try out because it was under $40 with shipping and I'm interested. Any thing you'd like to see tested?

I’d be more concerned about it breaking if a standoff bent and you experienced a fall. Your lineman’s rope needs to be strong enough for a dynamic event. Here again companies selling products that don’t know or understand the standards that already exist for these same products in similar industries. Yes a lineman’s rope is for work positioning but anytime there is a chance for shock load, it needs to be strong enough to handle a dynamic event. I won’t even begin to address the use of 7/64” amsteel as a friction hitch…. I just hope no one gets killed and saddle standards get passed sooner rather than later

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

ANSI/OSHA recommends a 10x minimum breaking strength vs working load limit for any work positioning gear. In most industries the ropes and carabiners must have a minimum breaking strength of 5,000 lbs or more at the weakest point in the system (aka the sewn eye or splice)…. I believe it’s 5400 for arborist. The reason is simple material degradation both from UV, dirt and simple wear and tear, materials also show different strength characteristics when they are wet. In a dynamic event shock load forces apply immediately and often much higher than the weight of the person who fell. Sometimes more than tripling in force on a static line. So if the break strength is 2800, then the weak point would be the knot or eye. Let’s be generous and say the eye maintains 80% that’s 2800 minus 560 lbs… so 2240 lbs of actual strength brand new… as if that wasn’t enough, the amsteel doesn’t stretch and in shock loads it often doesn’t meet its MBS and you’re stuck with a rope that can’t be rated for more than 224 lbs. Brand new it might and I say again MIGHT catch you, but after a couple weekend hunts or rain, it would likely fail if a fall occurred. I’m tempted to buy some and use it for the lineman’s loop drop tests next time I go to do our saddle testing. I don’t even think I’d need a 2:1 fall factor, I think a 1.25:1 would suffice for a 220 lbs drop to break that line or for the hitch to slide the entire length of the rope (which is also a failure). This type of stuff scares me to death because we want saddles to be the safer way to hunt. And it’s trending towards becoming the climber stand safety issues of the 80’s and early 90’s

 

[Brocky]

The hitch looks to be an SRT hitch, being able to descend on it’s own, like some others, most notably, the Synergy X, which uses the typical wraps, and keeps the over hands in front of the rope, the orange hitch. The drawing is the WLR hitch I got from their YouTube, and is unique in loading from the bottom and the middle.

I looked at their spliced products and noticed the Beal Pull Line has a break strength of 12 kN, and is rated at 10 kN when spliced. The Canyon Lux goes from 24 kN to 18 kN for the spliced eye. The buried cover might be put in with less core than normal for both to fit causing the lower numbers.

The diagram to show how the load is shared was surprising to me, guess I never did the math, the hitch cord only needs to be 5.3 kN if a 5000 lb safety is desired. My goal for hitch cords was 12-13 kN at the low end, might have to rethink that.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

The hitch looks to be an SRT hitch, being able to descend on it’s own, like some others, most notably, the Synergy X, which uses the typical wraps, and keeps the over hands in front of the rope, the orange hitch. The drawing is the WLR hitch I got from their YouTube, and is unique in loading from the bottom and the middle.

I looked at their spliced products and noticed the Beal Pull Line has a break strength of 12 kN, and is rated at 10 kN when spliced. The Canyon Lux goes from 24 kN to 18 kN for the spliced eye. The buried cover might be put in with less core than normal for both to fit causing the lower numbers.

The diagram to show how the load is shared was surprising to me, guess I never did the math, the hitch cord only needs to be 5.3 kN if a 5000 lb safety is desired. My goal for hitch cords was 12-13 kN at the low end, might have to rethink that.
View attachment 68789

Please explain how you only need 1193 lbs of break strength to achieve the desired 10x safety factor for life support gear. We always needed hitch cord with minimum of 3,000 lbs break strength to achieve the 300 lbs wll

 

[Brocky]

There are two attachment points from the Linemens Belt sharing the load, so each only needs to be half as strong. One side is further divided in half by the two legs of a friction hitch sharing that load, which is closer to 5.5 kN instead of 5.3.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

There are two attachment points from the Linemens Belt sharing the load, so each only needs to be half as strong. One side is further divided in half by the two legs of a friction hitch sharing that load, which is closer to 5.5 kN instead of 5.3.

This is somewhat true in theory…. while I agree in theory, as far as other life safety standards are concerned your hitch chord still needs a higher MBS. Because the hitch chord isn’t a true basket configuration the two legs are only 1.5 the OG strength. (Loss from the chords cross section) where a true basket is double the strength. So 5000 split in half for LR would be 2500. Your 5.5 is around 1250 but times 1.5 puts you around 1860 lbs which is well below that 2500 thresh hold. I would say it would need 7.5 kN or higher to even be considered minimum safety strength on a lineman’s rope.

 

[Brocky]

You’ll have to explain how the chords cross section reduces the strength of the two parts of rope coming out of a hitch that are sharing their portion of the load.

 

[gcr0003]

If y’all don’t stop going from kN to lbs I’m going to lose my mind. No wonder y’all are all turned around lol.

 

[gcr0003]

You’ll have to explain how the chords cross section reduces the strength of the two parts of rope coming out of a hitch that are sharing their portion of the load.
View attachment 68794

I’m not understanding you either @Fl Canopy Stalker At the highest level if you have a hitch that is attached to a rope and it has two cords coming off of it then each end would hold half the load.

Also, basket (single rope doubled around something) is not the same as two independent pieces of rope and will actually hold more than half the rated load in that configuration. The percentage above can be calculated but assuming half is more conservative.

 

[Weldabeast]

Sound like a good option for a secondary Linesman's dedicated for getting past limbs.... But I don't want a small diameter rope while climbing.... If u guys use the Linesman's correctly...flip line, tighten grip and pull ur body toward the tree and upwards at the same time, and always be leaning back into the rope, u wouldn't want a thin diameter....I like having a thicker rope in my hand I can grab tighter/easier....linesman isn't just a safety thing...it's a tool to assist with the climb. Mine is 9mm and I've used 11mm in the past.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

You’ll have to explain how the chords cross section reduces the strength of the two parts of rope coming out of a hitch that are sharing their portion of the load.
View attachment 68794

Any time a chord crosses or kinks like it does in the hitches cross section it causes strength loss. Basically it’s like a bend in a knot. Remember the load isn’t carried only on the straight legs of the rope, it’s also across the bottom legs of the hitch, the rest is split and held from the wraps (friction) but similarly to a girth hitch or knot, the legs have a bend exiting the hitch reducing the strength. It’s not a basket configuration

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I’m not understanding you either @Fl Canopy Stalker At the highest level if you have a hitch that is attached to a rope and it has two cords coming off of it then each end would hold half the load.

Also, basket (single rope doubled around something) is not the same as two independent pieces of rope and will actually hold more than half the rated load in that configuration. The percentage above can be calculated but assuming half is more conservative.

Where do you see two pieces of rope? A hitch cord is one single piece of rope tied where the two ends exit

If y’all don’t stop going from kN to lbs I’m going to lose my mind. No wonder y’all are all turned around lol.

224.8 lbs equals 1kN

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

You’ll have to explain how the chords cross section reduces the strength of the two parts of rope coming out of a hitch that are sharing their portion of the load.
View attachment 68794

our load exiting the hitch would be more similar to the 75 or 60 degree angles because of the hard cross where the legs cross at the bottom of the hitch. Remember the load isn’t only on the straight pieces, it’s goes all the way up into the hitch itself. And this is all assuming the hitch has the ability to hold to the chords breaking strength

 

[gcr0003]

Where do you see two pieces of rope? A hitch cord is one single piece of rope tied where the two ends exit

224.8 lbs equals 1kN

“Where two ends exit”

The hitch is frictionally holding all the weight, the two ends are splitting that load

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

“Where two ends exit”

The hitch is frictionally holding all the weight, the two ends are splitting that load

The weight is applied on the two legs before any friction is introduced. You need load to provide the friction. Which is why you can slide it when the load is removed

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

“Where two ends exit”

The hitch is frictionally holding all the weight, the two ends are splitting that load

They are splitting the load across the bend. Similar principle to strength loss when something is girth hitched. Read up on how how bends and angles effect load distribution or strength loss. It’s like a knot but with less bend radius.

 

[gcr0003]

The weight is applied on the two legs before any friction is introduced. You need load to provide the friction. Which is why you can slide it when the load is removed

Huh? If the friction is holding it from moving, then you have the full load divided by two going to the two ends exiting the hitch. You agree or no?