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4-point Jim Stepps

J

junkpile

New Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
21
Following up replies to my request for reviews on the stepp ladder, I'm thinking about trying to assemble an enlarged step with 4 points of contact. But, I don't own a stepp ladder currently, and don't really want to buy one just to try to make something else. I can weld. And I can run the lathe and the mill - although the mill I have access to right now is not showing itself to be real impressive. Downside is, I'm not sure if I can track down a tubing bender, so I'll probably have to form the shoulder to start with.

What I'm obviously thinking of doing is creating the step with 4 points of contact, and from what I can envision so far, it's going to have some tradeoffs.
  • First off, it's going to be heavier.
  • Second, it's probably only going to work on a certain range of tree shapes.
  • Third, there is a large potential for it to be unstable (but I've got a plan to remedy that, although it will add additional weight).
  • Fourth, they may not be quite as stackable.
  • Fifth, I hate welding aluminum. I'll be doing this on steel 1"x0.080" square tube to start with. Or whatever I can scrounge up.
But what I need is a couple tracings from someone that has a set of steps to cut down my R&D time. I have no interest in building these to sell. I need a tracing of it in every position that it will lay flat - on its side, on its face, on its top, on its points. I think I can make it work, and I think I can make it stable.


 
Sounds exciting, maybe Red can move this to the DIY section?
 
It doesn't have to be huge - just a little bigger. I don't think you will have as much problem getting 4 contact points to dig into tree. But the main thing is if you se4t one where it wants to pivot on the one bottom point of a 3 prong Stepp - this will eliminate that. If I go this route I will only be using one and I will find a way to get a platform on it. But it will be just large enough for me to turn 360 on it. I still think this will eb the ultimate platform if it is made right. I would recommend copying the Stepp and keep the profile, angles , etc... just larger.
 
I can either do the tracings, or even send you one to borrow. I'm interested to see what you come up with.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
It would be wise to actually try the real stepp before reinventing it. Im all about DIY, but rarely if ever can I replicate something for less than I could buy it. Material cost at low volumes kill many great ideas. I see your going to use 1" steel tubing. Are you aware the current stepp, is also made of steel, but much smaller than 1"? Jim stepp was a smart man, no doubt there is a reason it only has 3 points, but I dont want to discourage your ingenuity. Heck I went down the 4pnt road against my better judgment. Nothing rigid in our world touches on more than 3 points. There's a reason tables rock, or have adjustable legs. The ones that dont are sagging and making 4pnt contact. In my line of work we fixture parts and machine them. The industry standard is 3/2/1 method. Its never 4/2/1. These numbers represent number of resting points to accurately fixture a part. You rest it on 3 points in Z direction, slide it over to hit 2 points in X direction to stop rotation, then slide in Y direction to a single point . You now have locked all 6 degrees of freedom. Sorry about the long explanation, but that's reality.
In the case of a stepp, the cam over force is pivoting on 2 points. It will come to rest on a 3rd point. The only way a 4th point will contact is if one of the legs digs in deep enough or the stepp flexes when you stand on it. If it flexes to touch, you will feel that flex everytime you shift your weight.

Again I dont want to discourage you, just adding insight. There's a reason steady support like mono pods, bipods and tripods exist and we dont see quadpods, hexpods, etc.
 
Now that's funny my lonewolf, all my screaming eagles have four points of contact, as do ALL my climbing sticks, and 90% of the time they all four are in contact with tree. What you fail to consider is that trees have soft bark and are not FLAT.
 
DaveT1963 said:
Now that's funny my lonewolf, all my screaming eagles have four points of contact, as do ALL my climbing sticks, and 90% of the time they all four are in contact with tree. What you fail to consider is that trees have soft bark and are not FLAT.
Click to expand...

How many V brackets have you bent? :sunglasses: Reread my comments, I said only things that flex make 4 points of contact. I also commented on the bark, stating one of the 4 points would have to dig in deep enough for the 4th to hit. That wont happen with just the cam over pressure. When you stand on it that might happen, but now you have 1 pnt dug in solid and the other just waiting for you to shift your weight and have it dig in. Now you have a platform that rocks when you shift your weight. Also as you mention a trees profile, you are correct its not flat. Take your chair off your deck and go set it on uneven ground. Let me know how stable it is.........Dave you have shown lots of great mods, go to your local high school and ask the shop teacher if one of his students wants to do a 4pnt cam over platform project for you if you pay for materials. Or go to a local welding/fabrication shop and hand them your sketches. Lots of ways to get it done without having the ability to weld. I spoke with the new owner of the stepp in WI, sounds like you did as well. He hunts from a saddle and would love to come out with a new solution to solve this problem. He has all resource's needed to make it happen, yet I don't see it materializing.........
 
It's really not a new mod/concept.... people have been doing it for years. Wonder why everyone is chasing a wider v bracket for their platforms???? Could it be four points works and keeps side loaded pressure in check? It works because yes when you cam them over and then step on them it seats them into the bark. They also grab into the ridges of bark. That is the entire reason for V Brackets on tree stands to dig in when force is applied and to keep the stands from pivoting side to side. It's not perfect but it certainly works on trees. What do you think would happen if on your platform you only used one contact point on bottom and put side pressure on it? It rolls or wants to kick out to the side.

BTW - I often sit on a chair with 4 legs in the back yard, the legs dig into the ground and its pretty stable.
 

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How many points of contact with a sphere and a V Dave? Do ya understand why a Batwing works on a LW stand even if only 1 point of it is touching the tree? LW actually called it the offset bracket, cause you could use it on a leaning tree and not have your stand angle like the tree if you had a V bracket on top. I gave you several options to get one welded up, make it happen.

That pic is old from tradgang, if it worked well we would of seen it done by others by now. As for your yard, wish all my ground hunting spots were as nice. :D
 
Sounds to me like you shouldn't use one Ken. I appreciate the recommendations and I'll get right on it........


As to the OP give it a go if you like, some have found it actually does work well on trees..... but I would not use it for a stool base on a floor.
 
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Ernie,

Just do the tracings. I have a turnaround coming up next week, so I'll probably be on a slight delay. I was hoping to get on it this weekend, but now I have to help my old man pull the dock out, on top of getting ready for the travel.

Also, for those of you that would like to see a bigger stepp, how much bigger is "bigger"? Just want something wider? Or something deeper as well?
 
junkpile said:
Ernie,

Just do the tracings. I have a turnaround coming up next week, so I'll probably be on a slight delay. I was hoping to get on it this weekend, but now I have to help my old man pull the dock out, on top of getting ready for the travel.

Also, for those of you that would like to see a bigger stepp, how much bigger is "bigger"? Just want something wider? Or something deeper as well?
Click to expand...


Speaking only for myself I would keep all the proportions the same just a bit wider, longer and deeper. I would also add a couple crossbeams on top to make a mini platform to stand on (distribute weight across them instead of on just two)
 
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DaveT1963 said:
Speaking only for myself I would keep all the proportions the same just a bit wider, longer and deeper. I would also add a couple crossbeams on top to make a mini platform to stand on (distribute weight across them instead of on just two)
Click to expand...

What is "a bit"?
 
Might be better to find a way to add a webbing loop to the current stepps...
 
bubba g said:
Might be better to find a way to add a webbing loop to the current stepps...
Click to expand...

Please expand on that... I have an idea instantly, but most guys are trying to cut weight. A strap with a keeper buckle is a lot heavier than a rope.

Could be a good idea, just want to understand what you're suggesting.
 
Wow, guess i need to choose my words more carefully.

1.5 times as big
 
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