Ditch the Ropeman

[GCTerpfan]

Not everyone on this site has tension on the ropeman all the time.

This. I used a Ropeman when I used 11 mm rope, I would probably use a Ropeman again if I ever go back to 11 millimeter rope. It's just important that people that use it understand its limitations. I cringe when I see people say things like "it's made for rock climbing" because a new guy reads that and thinks they're bulletproof goes out and one sticks with it. Maybe it would work in that case, maybe it wouldn't.

I asked my original question because I was more curious about whether tethrd posted that on their website. It doesn't surprise me they didn't, seems like unnecessary liability if they did.

 

[Aeds151]

I believe I remember reading that the loop is what is rated at 22kn. Once you cut it and do your math, it doesnt add up to be fall rated. You also have to take into account the poachers knots bends to the carabiner for a beal distel


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[mtsrunner]

Your response came through kind of weird... are you saying Beal said not to cut and tie?

I thought that is what I read, but maybe not. Anyway, I am using a 50cm jammy that I cut and tied in a Schwabisch as a friction hitch on 8 mm Oplux.


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[Islandshooter]

I thought that is what I read, but maybe not. Anyway, I am using a 50cm jammy that I cut and tied in a Schwabisch as a friction hitch on 8 mm Oplux.


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The video i saw showed the schwabisch and the distel being almost the same hitch. As for the 22kn fall rating, here we go again with minimum slack in the tether. Just my opinion. I've got mine backed up... Twice

 

[mtsrunner]

The video i saw showed the schwabisch and the distel being almost the same hitch. As for the 22kn fall rating, here we go again with minimum slack in the tether. Just my opinion. I've got mine backed up... Twice

I back mine up by tying a loop in the tag end of my tether and clip it back in the carabiner. If my Schwabisch fails, I would only drop a couple of inches, which coincidentally would probably be enough to necessitate a change of underwear.


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[powhound84]

I'm confused by guys wanting to cut a jammy to tie knots in the cord. Y'all know cord is cheap and jammies are expensive because of the sewn loop, right?

 

[Squirrels]

I'm confused by guys wanting to cut a jammy to tie knots in the cord. Y'all know cord is cheap and jammies are expensive because of the sewn loop, right?

The Jammy is so popular because it is one of the few properly rated cords to use as a fiction hitch on 8mm Oplux, 6mm Sterling TRC is another. A distel is just easier to use tend than a prussic. Thus, there is a reason people are buying the Jammy and cutting it.

 

[powhound84]

I understand the hitches and cord requirements. My point is that you're paying for the sewn loop then cutting it. Technora cord isn't that expensive. Sounds like someone needs to buy some cord in bulk and start selling it by the foot on here.

 

[mattsteg]

I'm confused by guys wanting to cut a jammy to tie knots in the cord. Y'all know cord is cheap and jammies are expensive because of the sewn loop, right?

The selection and availability of high-strength cordage suitable for prusiks on 8mm rope is somewhat limited. I'm sure all of the cutters would gladly buy the cord if it was available in the US.

7mm cord is almost as thick as oplux so both borderline and bulky. 6mm nylon is weaker than some guys wanna go. Tech cords vary in suitability, so the jammy is a relatively inexpensive "sure thing" - even if it's objectively overpriced.

 

[mattsteg]

I'm confused by guys wanting to cut a jammy to tie knots in the cord. Y'all know cord is cheap and jammies are expensive because of the sewn loop, right?

The selection and availability of high-strength cordage suitable for prusiks on 8mm rope is somewhat limited. I'm sure all of the cutters would gladly buy the cord if it was available in the US.

7mm cord is almost as thick as oplux so both borderline and bulky. 6mm nylon is weaker than some guys wanna go. Tech cords vary in suitability, so the jammy is a relatively inexpensive "sure thing" - even if it's objectively overpriced.

I understand the hitches and cord requirements. My point is that you're paying for the sewn loop then cutting it. Technora cord isn't that expensive. Sounds like someone needs to buy some cord in bulk and start selling it by the foot on here.

Clearly this is happening. @DanO now has TRC (even though he's out of oplux...) available. My u derstanding is that the jammys were just quicker to source. I suspect the beal cord may come available as well.

With any of the high tech materials, I try to adhere as closely as possible to manufacturer guidance on application, as the cords tend to have more aggressive tradeoffs than nylon cord whether in stiffness, fatigue, melting, knot strength, etc. based on both material and construction.

 

[powhound84]

I'd have to play with some Oplux but I'd be surprised if New England 5mm tech cord wouldn't work.

 

[mattsteg]

I'd have to play with some Oplux but I'd be surprised if New England 5mm tech cord wouldn't work.

I'm sure it would. But people tried the jammy first.

I don't love the fatigue and knot strength properties of that cord...but the jammycord is doubtless similar in knot and probably in fatigue. Mostly just a reminder to have your stuff squared away and look at more than just the rope strength rating.

 

[powhound84]

Personally, I don't mess with any of the tech materials anymore. Even though it weighs a bit more, I find nylon suitable in more situations. Having hung from and taken falls from a few inches to 10+ feet on different systems, I've grown to appreciate the right amount of stretch. Plus, it's cheap and readily available after I trash it and it needs replacing.

 

[mattsteg]

Personally, I don't mess with any of the tech materials anymore. Even though it weighs a bit more, I find nylon suitable in more situations. Having hung from and taken falls from a few inches to 10+ feet on different systems, I've grown to appreciate the right amount of stretch. Plus, it's cheap and readily available after I trash it and it needs replacing.

Yet here we are talking about a high tech prusik on a high-tech rope lol.

The predictability and resillience of nylon and other "modern traditional" fibers is remarkably nice. And when you see nylon cord or webbing keeping 80% strength on a knot while a tech cord drops to 40%...the true performance gap is a lot closer than specs - especially given the larger loads tech stuff will see in a shock loading scenario. For sure it's a lot more complicated than "twice the strength, half the weight"

 

[mtsrunner]

Yet here we are talking about a high tech prusik on a high-tech rope lol.

The predictability and resillience of nylon and other "modern traditional" fibers is remarkably nice. And when you see nylon cord or webbing keeping 80% strength on a knot while a tech cord drops to 40%...the true performance gap is a lot closer than specs - especially given the larger loads tech stuff will see in a shock loading scenario. For sure it's a lot more complicated than "twice the strength, half the weight"

Not to derail the topic, but does someone know what % tubular webbing debates with a water knot?

I am considering using DanO’s new woven poly webbing as my bridge (I always have a secondary tie-in point as back up). I am thinking if the woven stuff is rated for about 2200# (that’s what Dutch had his rated at), it might not be far off from the tubular webbing with water knots. The advantage would be a lot cleaner bridge with easy 2.5” adjustability. I would girth hitch one side to my bridge loop and carabiner in to the other, leaving enough extra loops if I wanted to experiment with a longer bridge. Shortening would be easy, as well.

I have done this in the past with the Dutchware stuff while deciding what length to ultimately tie my tubular bridge or splice my Amsteel bridge. It doesn’t slide quite as smoothly as the tubular, but it’s not that noticeable.

Side note, if your webbing bridge is not as smooth as you like or making noise, I have had great success by working a handful of Obenhauf’s Heavy Duty leather preservative in to the webbing. It makes the webbing super smooth and supple. I have done this with my TL Tree Saddles (and boots and softball glove) for about 12 years and they are still great.



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[Aeds151]

Good idea. I use it on whites boots to keep them from cracking.


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[powhound84]

If you are talking about 1” tubular climb-spec webbing, its 64% efficient with water knots, which isn’t great. With that being said, it’s probably still way stronger than you need. I’ve whipped on water knots in tubular webbing many times. Just leave 5-6” tail cuz it slips a bit as it tightens.

Regarding the leather preservative, just make sure any possible solvents in the formula don’t harm the webbing material. I’m not familiar with the one you used and it could be fine. Just something to keep in mind.

Side note, bug spray and sunscreen can degrade soft goods. I try not to get any chemicals on any of my ropes or webbing just to be sure.


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[Bwhana]

Based on the size tree I prefer and use the most and my chin to forehead tether height, I always seem to be connected with only 6 to 8 inches of tether from the bridge to the tree. Once I set mine, I don't move it on a hunt. I ditched the ropeman on bridge and went with the Austrialpin buckle and webbing bridge at first. Last night, I made a 5 ft Oplux bridge and put a jammy on it. So simple and not all that loose tether to deal with. I just don't get the whole needing to move on a tether thing that guys keep talking about. Still using RM on Oplux linesman, when I use it.

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[mtsrunner]

If you are talking about 1” tubular climb-spec webbing, its 64% efficient with water knots, which isn’t great. With that being said, it’s probably still way stronger than you need. I’ve whipped on water knots in tubular webbing many times. Just leave 5-6” tail cuz it slips a bit as it tightens.

Regarding the leather preservative, just make sure any possible solvents in the formula don’t harm the webbing material. I’m not familiar with the one you used and it could be fine. Just something to keep in mind.

Side note, bug spray and sunscreen can degrade soft goods. I try not to get any chemicals on any of my ropes or webbing just to be sure.


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Quite the opposite actually. It helps the webbing, not hurts it. That’s why I use it.

 

[Aeds151]

Based on the size tree I prefer and use the most and my chin to forehead tether height, I always seem to be connected with only 6 to 8 inches of tether from the bridge to the tree. Once I set mine, I don't move it on a hunt. I ditched the ropeman on bridge and went with the Austrialpin buckle and webbing bridge at first. Last night, I made a 5 ft Oplux bridge and put a jammy on it. So simple and not all that loose tether to deal with. I just don't get the whole needing to move on a tether thing that guys keep talking about. Still using RM on Oplux linesman, when I use it.

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The adjustment of a tether and needing it to be easy is for the hunters that use Hand Climber Methed and/or 1 Stick Method, such as myself. Also those who transition from sitting to leaning as well as adjusting for how your legs angle away from body to relieve pressure on knees.


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